Reyl0s are actually picking through content about Han in his early 20′s and the Last Shot novel to prove Han was a negligent father and therefor Ben Sol0 is absolved of all guilt for his multiple genocides
Yeesh and I can’t even get off a parking ticket for the time my dad slapped me…
Okay, #1 he was under orders from Snoke who would have undoubtedly killed him and possibly his family just to make him suffer if he disobeyed orders. And #2 you have no sense of character depth. 🙄🙄🙄
Throwing in my two cents– even though I’m not a huge fan of Kylo, I gotta back Jaz on this one. Kylo’s been manipulated by Snoke since he was young. I’ve seen a bunch of people saying that he has no excuses because he had a good, happy family– but all that is based on assumptions. (I think– I’m drawing from the movies only, I’ve not read the text adaptations. Just let me know if I’m wrong) And even if he did have a good family– does that negate the fact that he was manipulated? No. Just because someone grew up in a loving family doesn’t mean they can’t experience abuse. It would be far more inexcusable if he HAD A SUPPORT SYSTEM from his family during that time, but we’ve not been shown anything of the sort. My point is, his family couldn’t possibly adequately help, support, or protect him if they didn’t know that he was being manipulated & groomed by a malicious person.
In no way am I excusing the fact that he murdered people– that is still wrong and it is only right that he accepts that blame, responsibility, and burden. Plus as Jaz said, he was under Snoke’s thumb. If he was indeed manipulated and groomed by Snoke since he was young, then placed in a significant position, that thus imposed a greater amount of pressure on him and would’ve given Snoke more excuses to manipulate him if he made mistakes. It would be difficult to break free from a manipulator/abuser’s influence if one’s been under his thumb for a long time. So there is a reason why he did it. Not an excuse, but still a reason.
However Luke isn’t blameless. Yes, Luke didn’t make him do it. It was Snoke’s influence and ultimately Ben Solo committed it. However, when Ben was still under his tutelage, Luke sensed that something Dark and powerful was influencing Ben. Because Ben was not with his parents at the time… as a Light Jedi, as his elder, as his trainer, and as his UNCLE, it was ultimately Luke’s responsibility to confront it– to protect Ben– to guide him THROUGH the temptation. If he had done just that, things could have been different. Ben was YOUNG. Adolescents are generally self-centered have difficulties seeing beyond that, etc– they need GUIDANCE and SUPPORT. But what did Luke do? TRY TO KILL HIM IN HIS SLEEP. (Can I just say that I really hate what the new trilogy did to Luke’s character? It’s bullshit.) Seriously? OF COURSE THAT’D MAKE THINGS WORSE. Obviously that was the last straw. And who knows what things Snoke’s been telling Ben? Luke trying to kill him may have just “confirmed” whatever Snoke’s been feeding Ben. So yes, he completely and utterly failed Ben.
Moreover, everyone deserves a CHANCE at redemption, to pay for their sins. Including Kylo. But that relies entirely on the character (and the writers)’s willingness to go down that difficult path. I’m a big fan of redemption arcs, plus I like Anakin so I feel that if Ben desires so much to emulate Darth Vader (ironic, because it was Anakin’s bondage and enslavement), it only makes even more sense for him to be saved/freed at the end too, and actually go through a redemption arc. After all, Star Wars is a story of hope.
“Ben” was 23 when he killed a school full of students. That’s mighty old for an adolescent. Also the point of the OP still stands–it was ultimately he who chose his actions, and it’s both dishonest and cowardly of him to blame Luke for it. It’s impossible for him to have a redemption of any sort while he refuses to take responsibility for his own actions.
Is it just me or does spanking seem to address precisely none of the issues proponents say it does?
“It teaches them respect!” It teaches them to defer to someone bigger and stronger than they are. I’d say that’s more fear than respect, and it’s why children whose parents rely on spanking can get completely out of hand when they’re big enough to fight back.
“They’re too young to understand when they’re told it’s wrong!” But old enough to comprehend the precise nuance and meaning of being hit, evidently.
“Nothing else worked!” When I look at stories of spanking allegedly working, it generally shows other parenting methods being used ineffectively and poorly. Obviously everything else has not been tried, at least not correctly. Maybe learn to parent better instead of using spanking as a stopgap.
“Oh they’re a difficult kid!” And hitting them makes them less difficult? It could make them more compliant, but that’s a poor replacement for helping them with their problems and a shitty parenting goal in general.
“It teaches them violence is wrong!” I… what?
There’s been dozens (if not more) psychological studies that all basically point to spanking being a bad thing.
In a behavioural modification class I took, the prof talked about it during the part on positive punishment. It doesn’t work. It doesn’t stop the behaviour in question from happening, it just teaches the subject to try to avoid being caught doing it, and it results in higher chances of negative and violent behaviour later in life.
In addition, I don’t think a lot of these studies even capture the amount of harm it does to the kids who don’t visibly act out because they don’t stand out as much. I suspect there’s a silent majority who, instead of turning violent/addicted/otherwise visibly troubled, are instead neurotic, afraid to try anything new or to open up to people because they associate being “found out” with punishment and pain.
Descriptions of violence against children below
And that’s to say nothing of the bystander effect on kids who are not spanked, or not as much, but watch a lot of it happening to others and internalize the “lesson.” I grew
up with a hell lot of spanking at both home and at school. I had my
palms struck with rulers, I had my legs switched, I watched boys and
girls be hit with mop handles by teachers, I watched them being slapped
and punched.
This parade of violence against children was terrifying and humiliating. It helped scare me into
compliance but none of it at any point helped me become a better
or more respectful person. The violence taught me that I should keep my head down and not be noticed, that I should not speak out against the abuse of others or I’d be hurt myself, that I must never admit to mistakes or ask for help because being known as less than perfect meant pain, that I could not trust authority including my own parents. It wasn’t the only thing that messed me up but the physical violence was part of a climate of coercion and authoritarianism, the shadow in which all other interactions took place. We all knew the authority over us was backed up by threats of physical force.
The damage of spanking and physical abuse–and there is no clear line between the two, it’s on a spectrum of violence–is not only supported by science, there is reason to think the science, clear as it is, actually underestimates how widespread the negative effects are. It’s not just the people who were hit and now engage in violent behavior themselves. It’s also the people who got off “easy,” like me, and the people wouldn’t hurt a fly but live in a constant fog of fear and shame. None of these is more or less worthy than another, of course, nor are the types mutually exclusive. What I’m saying is that the damage is so much more extensive than can be easily captured in a study.
The people who want to argue that spanking is “culture” and therefore good or sacred or some shit can go to hell, too. Corporeal punishmentIS part of my culture, and more and more people are realizing how damaging it is. There has been a huge public debate for years about this, from students filming teachers’ abuse to proposals for rules to ban corporeal punishment in schools and even at home. Culture is not always good, and it is not immutable. We can do better, and we must.
One very typical beat for a fictional romance is one or both the partners
being “tempted” in some way by another potential partner.
There was a character in The Walking Dead who reminded Rick Grimes of his deceased wife Lori, a development which many fans thought spelled the end of his potential romance with Michonne. Princess Leia kissed Luke in ESB, something I’m sure we’d all like to forget
about. The Hunger Games had the typical YA love triangle which I
read the author didn’t even have in the original version–Gale was
originally Katniss’s cousin, not her potential love interest (Katniss
still comments on their physical resemblance in the book), but the
publisher wanted the triangle to spice things up. That’s how common a
trope it is.
Looking at these examples it seems to me that a lot of these
“temptations” from love have to do with family in some way, or the
unhealthy, traumatic aspects of family dynamics. Rick’s wife Lori
cheated on him and died in childbirth. leaving him to grieve for years. The woman who
reminded him of Lori (I’m so sorry, I can’t remember or find her name)
is an obvious callback to that complicated trauma. Leia and Luke for
obvious reasons, even if the familial relationship was a retcon. Gale,
even when he was no longer Katniss’s cousin, was still explicitly tied
to her identity as a provider and protector to her family. He
foregrounds this himself by saying how her attraction to him, to the
extent it existed, came from knowing he would take care of her family.
Given that Katniss’s need to provide for and protect her family,
especially her sister, from a young age not only drove her character
from the start but was the source of many of her issues and traumas, her
relationship with Gale was similarly based on this unhealthy part of her
family dynamics.
From these observations it seems Finn’s and Rey’s separate plots in TLJ, specifically with Rose and Kylo Ren respectively, have much more in common with temptation plots than endgame love stories. I say “temptation” here as more a plot element than a subjective psychological experience of being tempted. The temptation plot often does come with personal attraction, but in Rey’s and Finn’s cases the attractions do not seem to be romantic or sexual. Rather they seem attracted to things that are promised by or come to them through the tempting character, such as turning a powerful Force user to win the war, or the promise of comfort and freedom.
With Rey, the callback to the unhealthy/traumatic family dynamic is obvious since Ren uses her abandonment and family issues to try and tempt her into changing sides much as Vader did with Luke. Not only that, Finn’s relationship with Rose also reflects an unhealthy family dynamic, but with his upbringing in the First Order rather than his actual family. This may or may not be intentional on the writer’s part, but Finn’s first meeting with Rose is characterized by the compulsion, backed up with violence, to stay with an authority he is trying to leave. That original wrong is never addressed in a meaningful way but evidently accepted as part of the working relationship.
Even when they become friendlier Rose talks down to Finn at crucial points, impugning his courage and intelligence. (If you want to tell me she was joking, please see Tangled for what these “jokes” can do to a person. Maybe watching a blond girl being subjected to this treatment will help you see it’s harmful.) When he charges the cannon on Crait she again stops him with force. It is an accepted part of their relationship in TLJ, then, that Finn is lacking must be taught by the wiser and more knowing Rose, by violence if necessary. This calls to mind the constant berating and strict regimentation he endured in the First Order. The best thing he can do is tamp down on his own instincts and follow her lead, or he will be hurt–for his own good, obviously. This is the opposite of his storyline in TFA where Finn for the first time in his life acted in direct defiance of authority, both the First Order and Resistance.
TLJ, then, saw both Finn and Rey be tempted away from each other–not just as potential love interests, but also as co-heroes trying to break away from their respective traumas. They were both retraumatized in some way; Rey’s self-worth was questioned by an unsrupulous character who wanted to exploit her talents, and Finn was presented with the choice of either fully complying or being hurt by someone who “knows better” than he did. These dynamics are in direct contrast to the unconditional acceptance and affection Finn and Rey had found in each other during TFA and constantly yearned for in TLJ.
Finn and Rey’s unconditional love held true even in disagreement and conflict. When Finn wanted to leave in TFA and Rey wanted him to stay, he didn’t tell her he was the only person who could love her and she would be alone if she didn’t come with him. He sadly accepted her decision and told her to take care of herself, because clearly she could and she had friends and allies as well. Rey, though so saddened she couldn’t even bring herself to say good-bye, did not assault Finn or deride him as a coward; she let him go, because it was his decision and, if a mistake, his own mistake to make. That’s what it looks like when you love someone as a free individual and not an object to control for your own ends. It is the only way to love.
The respective temptations of Finn and Rey in TLJ, intentionally or not, serve not only as bumps in the road common in love stories but go to the heart of their characters and traumas. This is because the story of Finn and Rey’s love is about overcoming trauma and growing past it. And it is a love story, whether you think of it as romantic or not–it is the central relationship of the sequel trilogy, and that won’t change even if they have other or no romantic interests. Their story in TLJ was of them being tempted, in one way or another, from the true path of love. With their reunion the next part of their story begins, to extend their realization and growth into the galaxy at large and help others out of danger, trauma and hopefully servitude. The way may be hard, but together there is nothing they cannot do.
(cont) to insinuate that a story like yasmine’s is normal or
common among muslim american women is a disservice and that’s a fault on
the magazine. sorry if it seems like i’m putting this all on you but i
just saw the story put on my dash and have a lot of feelings of how it
was presented, especially when it only furthers the misconceptions
impressionable people who read the magazine have.
How did the forced marriage story say every Palestinian-American Muslim family was like that? The young woman’s family is like that, because they’re clearly an abusive fundamentalist family, but I didn’t catch any implication that it furthered an Islamophobic narrative. In fact, wasn’t it a Muslim friend who was horrified at what she was going through and urged her to call the Embassy?
Umm Zuko is FAR from the only source on Azula being abusive to those around her. If these fans you mention are talking about the flashback scenes in “Zuko Alone” being Zuko’s memories, where’s this purported distortion from Zuko when Ty Lee was threatened into leaving the circus and joining Azula’s mission instead? When Mai was forced to choose between getting her brother back and obeying Azula? Zuko was not the viewpoint character in these scenes, and was nowhere near these events in fact.
I don’t subscribe to the idea that Azula is a one dimensional character or some poorly defined and often ableist stereotype of a “psychopath.” She was herself abused by Ozai and has a complex psychological profile. She was also controlling and hurtful to the people closest to her in a maladaptive attempt to deal with the abuse. (For the best discussion on this, see @attackfish ’s Three Pillars Theory of Azula).
Azula is brilliant, badass, inpiring and funny. She is, in her way, a patriot. She is a daughter and a sister. She is a whole person with history, traumas, relationships, and life. And yes, she is an abuser. She is not a one-dimensional caricature–she is frequently sympathetic and has many redeeming characteristics, including the possibility, if slim, to change. That’s the way abusers often are in life. None of her human qualities makes her actions less bad, because it’s real human beings, fully realized people who you might love and have complex feelings for, who do evil things.
“She did evil things” and “She is a three-dimensional person” are not mutually exclusive statements. I struggled my entire life to reconcile these statements and I will always speak against the harmful idea that the two are mutually exclusive. We can recognize an abuser’s humanity and her evil at the same time, and we have to.
This is why all anti Reylos are misogynists, even if you’re a woman. You having social justice points on Tumblr doesn’t give you a free pass.
THE HOTTEST TAKE, IF YOU HATE KYLO REN YOU HATE WOMEN NOW
This just in: Because I, a Jew, hate a Nazi parallel, I am a misogynist.
Man goyim are on a trip. Whatever you all are smoking I suggest you stop, I think it’s tainted
What’s more, Kyle reminds many many women of their abusers and that’s why they dislike the character and Reylo. But I guess some women count more than others. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
I’m glad this blog is helpful! Without the specific wording and context it’s hard to judge, so if you could point me toward the video I might be able to make a better judgment. I’m pretty sure Johnson is not allowed to disclose the romantic endgame, though, assuming he even knows how Episode IX is supposed to end, so the answer probably wasn’t a definite or authoritative one.
I highly doubt reylo is going to be canon in any case. Kylo spent two movies hurting, undermining, and trying to use Rey for his own purposes, and Johnson himself said that Kylo was trying to make her insecure. Validating this toxic interaction as a path to a positive romantic relationship would be a terrible, misogynistic story decision. Maybe Johnson is capable of it, idk, but I don’t think JJ Abrams is.
L.J.'s Obsessions 