Hmm. New leaks indicate Luke will appear to rey and Kylo as a Force Ghost in a callback to the last scene of ROTJ. I don’t like it. At best it means Kylo and Rey are related and he got some bullshit redemption. At worst it means some bullshit romance blessed by Luke’s ghost will happen between Rey and Kylo but the movie ends with them making eyes at each other. I don’t want to believe they’d go there but I will never trust Lucasfilm again after TLJ.

I’d be disappointed if it happens that way, too, but I also have no idea if this is a credible leak or on the level of the Leia’s death/reylow baby bullshit.

is it weird that i know what rian was trying to do with poe at the beginning but i’m also fully aware that logically poe was right anyway? like, if poe hadn’t gone ahead with the attack on the dreadnaught the movie would have been over before they even made the first hyperspeed jump. rian’s an idiot.

I thought Poe was in the right, too, and more importantly, Leia let the attack with the bombers go forward so it felt really weird that she blamed him for how the mission went.

What AU scenario would be more unlikely and ridiculous: Yoda going to the dark side or Palpatine becoming a better person?

The latter by far. That green puppet has done so much harm I’m half ready to believe he’s already Dark Side anyway. At the very least his puritan authoritarianism helped push Anakin toward Palpatine, which is more of a coup for the Dark Side than most actual Sith ever achieved.

Also, like, he legit used Force Lightning from beyond his swampy little grave cackling about burning ancient Jedi texts. It’s not even subtle at this point.

This may sound controversial but I ship reylo, sigh. But that won’t stop me from respecting peoples opinion not to, actually I encourage people to ship whatever they want. It’d be so boring if everyone liked the same thing. All i want is for people to actively respect everyone’s opinion and choice for shipping something. I’m so sorry if it seems like I’m aiming this at you or others I know many people haven’t done anything wrong, that isn’t my intent at all I just want to find common ground. xx

If shipping reylow is a choice, so is the choice not to ship it and to push back/laugh at some of the horrible/laughable opinions coming out of that fandom. Ship whatever you like and I certainly don’t believe in hassling people just for what they ship. But saying that it’s your opinion doesn’t make it immune to disagreement, nor does disagreement equal disrespect.

Changing literally anything about TLJ except the plot (as outlined by Wikipedia,) fix it. Dialogue. Gags. Costume designs. Heck, even motivations, as long as the result of those motivations is the same. Luke doesn’t have to be a coward as long as he still pulled a saber on his nephew and ran off to an island in uncharted space. (Though how he could be anything else and still do that, I’m not sure how.) You can even reinsert, cut, rearrange, or even create minor scenes. Could it be watchable?

Oh, I have so many. So many. Simply changing the framing would make the whole thing so much better.

– First of all, all the jokes have to be rewritten. No. Bad.

Other points, going by plotline:

A plot:

– Make it much clearer that Rey is thinking of Finn the whole time, is worried about the FO getting the Resistance and Finn, and believes Kylo Ren can turn because, well, Finn exists.

– Also make it clear that she’s thinking of Han and is haunted by the thought that Han might have died in vain. Turning Kylo will prove that Han was right.

– When Luke was in Ben’s room he wasn’t randomly poking around in his nephew’s mind, he was planning to wake him up and confront him because he had evidence of wrongdoing such as a student going missing. Ben’s darkness was so overwhelming, Luke thought an attack was imminent and drew his saber to defend himself. Ben woke up and thought Luke was trying to kill him and, more urgently, that he had to strike preemptively because he had been found out.

B plot:

– Leia is upset with Poe to the point of slapping him (yes, we can keep the slap) not because he’s being a reckless hotshot who needs to be Taught A Lesson but because he’s playing fast and loose with his own life even worse than before due to PTSD, and Leia is terrified to lose him since Kylo’s murder of Han. The slap is framed as a shocking moment of lapse in professionalism and decorum, like everything goes still at that moment and people look on aghast, and is an indefensible expression of Leia’s trauma. She apologizes later on in the movie.

– Make Holdo a New Republic Admiral who survived the destruction of Hosnia. Her story will be about the uneasy integration of the Republic and Resistance forces, with cultural clashes, authoritarianism, trauma, and mutual recrimination in the mix. The Republic forces lowkey blame the Resistance for provoking the First Order into destroying Hosnia, while the Resistance point out they were on the front lines of this fight. The Republic think the Resistance lacks military discipline, while the Resistance resist (heh) the strictures of the Republic military.

– Holdo and Leia, two old friends, are trying to hold this whole thing together but aren’t immune to the conflict and find themselves arguing.

– Finn’s status in the Resistance is a particular point of contention, and he gets a lot of unfair shit thrown his way. Holdo’s “A Stormtrooper?!” line comes earlier on, and really turns Poe against her while making her conflict with Leia worse.

– Make it clear, as in the novelization, that Rose was ordered to tase deserters. This order came from Holdo and is another sign of the culture clash in the Republic/Resistance integration.

– If this doesn’t count as altering the plot, have Finn actually locked up as a deserter and possibly an escaped prisoner. If you’re going to mix a desertion plot and a former Stormtrooper at least follow through with it.

– Finn’s imprisonment brings Poe’s trauma-fueled anger to a boiling point, and appeals to Holdo are useless. She actually suspects Finn was a spy all along who was going to rejoin the FO with intel. Poe and Holdo have a giant shouting match over this, with Leia trying to intercede. Though Leia is very sympathetic to Poe and angry with Holdo, she talks a fuming Poe down to try and keep peace on the ship.

– With Leia getting spaced and being in a coma, the Resistance personnel lose what leverage they have. When Holdo withholds the escape plan from Poe it’s just a symptom of the Resistance being locked out from the functioning of the ship. They grow increasingly fearful and suspicious of the Republic forces.

– As will happen when people are deprived of information and control, rumors and conspiracy theories circulate. The Republic remnants are in league with the FO. Actual Senators were on their side, why not the military? Holdo was the one who had Leia spaced. The whole Resistance are being delivered to the FO in a neat little package.

– Poe, all but fatalistic at this point, becomes extremely fearful of what might happen to Finn. He thinks the Republic soldiers might outright execute him. He gets flashbacks to his imprisonment by the FO.

– Rose is assigned to guard Finn in his cell and the conversation starts out antagonistic (”Come to gloat?”), with Finn angry at Rose and Rose alternately remorseful and defensive. They understand each other a little better and hit off on the plan here.

– Poe signs off on Finn and Rose’s plan because, as far as he’s concerned, they’re all Holdo’s prisoners now and at least this way he can get Finn out. They have an emotional conversation about how Finn saved Poe the last time and this way Poe can repay him in some measure. Can they kiss now or are we still constrained by Disney homophobia?

– Rose is okay with turning against Holdo because she’s now angry at having been ordered to tase Finn. She’s reevaluating some things in her life and this is the beginning of her character arc.

– Finn and Rose get off the Raddus without anyone noticing because Rose was the one assigned to guard him. Holdo is now convinced Finn is a spy who kidnapped Rose, but when questioned about it Poe plays dumb. He’s just a flyboy, what does he know? Holdo orders him confined to quarters.

– Poe is busted out by Connix and othe others because they found out
that Holdo is making them abandon ship. Thinking their worst fears have
come true and they’re being delivered to the FO, they stage a desperate
all-out takeover of the ship.

– An awakened Leia talks Poe
down in an emotional conversation where she admits she was afraid to
lose him after losing so much else, and Poe, in turn, confesses a part
of him was trying to go out honorably in battle to stop the pain.


Holdo says “I’m sorry” to Leia and Poe as they board the
transports. As she rams the Star Destroyer–and make it just normal
ramming, she can cleverly ram the flagship into another
object, such as other ships, like the actual Admiral Raddus did–she
says “This is for Hosnia.” Make it
clear she’s a victim of her trauma like Poe almost was.

C Plot:

– Do I really have to keep the dumbass parking violation? Let’s say Finn and Rose were recognized and it was a First Order spy who accused them of being terrorists or something.

– Let. Finn. And Rose. Dress. Up. They have to blend in on a casino planet, what could be more perfect? Let them see each other in a whole new light and flirt a little. Let them have an actual back-and-forth argument about the war profiteers on Canto Bight instead of Rose one-sidedly lecturing to Finn.

– Many others have pointed out that Finn should have actually reacted to and interacted with the abused children. Maybe he gives them courage, tells them he knows it’s hard but that they can leave with him and Rose if they want.

– This is @stopthatbluecat‘s idea, but let them work together to escape instead of the children being left behind.

– DJ takes the children on board, grumbling at first but increasingly bonding with them. This does much to endear him to Rose and Finn despite his still being an unsavory character. (Why are they trusting this random guy again? Can he have some sort of preexisting tie to the Resistance, or at least a grudge against the FO? Maybe he’s a war orphan himself?) They drop the kids off at a planet where people DJ knows can take care of them.

– Again, not my idea but when DJ backstabs Finn and Rose it’s because he wants to provide for the children he is now responsible for.

Final battle:

– When Rose rams into Finn it’s about her realizing she was wrong. He shouldn’t sacrifice himself for a cause, he should live to see Rey again or at least have a chance to. Get rid of the nonsensical “That’s how we win” line. When she kisses Finn, have him lean into the kiss and make it a more mutual thing.

– Finn and Rey can kiss too, but lest it makes Finn look like too much of a cad we can have just a heartfelt hug. Make it more like the novelization and have her fall into his arms, sobbing and laughing at the same time. Make her relief unmistakeable.

Tl; dr: Basically I did four things:

  1. Make Finn a major part of all 3 plots even when he’s not there.

  2. Let him kiss all the hot guys and girls just as God intended.

  3. Actually follow through on the plot of the prior movie.

  4. Let female characters have their own traumas, mistakes, and character development. Don’t make them exist just to teach male characters ffs.

I’m not sure what to do. I have a mutual I’ve been mutuals with since TFA came out. They are NOT reylows. They don’t particularly like Kylo, even as a villain. They are not really pro-Finnrey, but they prefer that to any option if there is to be a romance. They are pro-Finn leaving the Resistance and finding his own way. My issue is this, tonight this person said Rey should have fucked Kylo in TLJ. When I (and others) went batshit, they said not because they wanted to see that but because

it was obvious Daisy Ridley and Adam Driver were told to play
their interactions as sexual attraction, and Rey fucking Kylo and then
realizing he was a POS would have been “relatable” and would have bound
her to Finn more. When someone said that by that logic, Finn should have
fucked Rose, they said no, because it was obvious Finn was not feeling
Rose like that so fucking her would have been a fuckboy move. I don’t
know what to do with this. If someone who is pretty clearly against
reylow is

[saying] Rey and Kylo’s interactions in TLJ were heavy with sexual
tension to the point they think they should have just banged and gotten
it over with, what point is there to continue saying there was no sexual
tension between the characters? I ship Finnrey and haven’t wavered from
that and won’t, but I just wonder, did TLJ beat people down? Are people
just tired? I’m seeing these bad takes from people I trust and it’s
scaring me and depressing me.


Isn’t this what anti reylows/finnreys have already been joking actually happened in TLJ, in response to RJ’s hand-touch sex comment (link)? I didn’t read their interactions in TLJ as sexual but I did think Rey was becoming traumatically bonded to someone who mistreated and traumatized her (link). Either way, both the movie and novelization make it clear that Rey has
lost all illusions about the guy and ceased to give a shit about him by
the end. People have compared the relationship to that of Luke and Vader or Harry and Voldemort–not exactly the stuff of epic romance. 

And for God’s sakes, we’re not virginity-obsessed creepers like a lot of reylows are. Who cares if Rey fucks somebody else? With or without sex, Rey’s plot is about her making a mistake and coming back from it. I don’t see why it’s a big deal.

Listen……I am not trying to invalidate anyone’s fears. I get it, I do. But when y’all start talking about the “my friend” line you start sounding like the r/eylos and using their arguments to make a big deal of a line that’s pretty normal. For context there is a deleted scene in which Dr Kalonia informs Rey, “your friend will be fine.” The whole point of the “my friend” line is that it’s incredible meaningful and poignant for Rey to realize (bc of Kalonia) 1/2

lj-writes:

that she has a friend for the first time in her entire life. It
doesn’t negate any romantic feelings or “friendzone” Finn. It definitely
seems a little clunky because the Kalonia scene was taken out but
honestly I didn’t think anything of it until I saw people online
freaking out about it. I just think the “LF made him put the line in”
stuff is too borderline conspiracy theory.


In most situations, I’d say you’re right. But the thing is–racism is ridiculous. It makes ridiculous things happen. Finn’s abrupt downgrade in importance between TFA and TLJ doesn’t make any sense precisely because it’s racist in nature, and I don’t blame Black fans one bit for being gun-shy after all that literal nonsense not only in SW but throughout the history of media. We know racism has deeply affected SW from the outset, with Han being played by Harrison Ford instead of Glynn Turman for instance.

I don’t necessarily believe that everyone’s speculations are spot-on and factual, of course. But as material for fan speculation, if not a fun kind, they have a place along with other kinds of speculation.

And I get that. I really do. But I just wish we as Finn/Rey
shippers could be more confident. We’ve got a lot of stuff going for us,
you know? I think this kind of doom and gloom makes it easier for other
shippers to put us down.

I think this was the third part of this ask, or a follow-up. I agree, Finnrey is clearly the strongest canon ship and plenty of the GA have said it’s either Finnrey or nothing. I’m all for confidence, it’s just that after all the bullshit that’s been going on some people would like caution with their confidence.

It’s also a bit unfair to say Finnrey fans are making it easier for others to put us down. Finnrey gets shat on because of a long media history of racism that makes it easy to dismiss John as a romantic lead and even laugh at the idea. There’s also the fact that many Finnrey shippers are Black women and are targeted for that reason.

I want to preface this by saying I don’t ship Poe with Rey. But I’m not really understanding why you and others seem to dismiss the idea that as attracted to Finn as Rey might be, she might have looked at Poe and decided he was the man for her. I didn’t marry my hs boyfriend. I didn’t marry my college bf either. At the time I dated both of them, I considered myself in love and then I met someone else who made me realize that maybe they were a better fit for me. (1)

themandalorianwolf:

lj-writes:

The problem I have is that you and others say Rey is her own
person. If that’s so, why wouldn’t a greater attraction to Poe be
considered? She has a right to choose, yes? Being more drawn to Poe
wouldn’t mean that she never cared for Finn or never thought he was hot
or never considered a relationship with him. It would just mean that she
met Poe and on sight felt something clicked. I’m not saying that is
what happened, but I’m baffled as to why people simply dismiss this as a
possibility. (end)


I… don’t know how to explain to you that Rey isn’t a real person and we’d be judging any romance subplot by the metrics of a good and entertaining story, not by the real-life standards of agency and individual choice. I’m not going to tell you or anyone “Why didn’t you marry your boyfriend from high school or college? All that buildup gone to waste!” any more than I’m going to say “Yay Leia married Admiral Ackbar after two movies of clear sexual tension with Han! #FemaleEmpowerment #Feminism” I hope that clears things up?

Maybe I can try my luck?

Most people don’t take a 4 second hello more than anything than that: A hello.

Beyond that fact, an argument can be made that just as she can be attracted to other men, she can be friends with other men.

It’s more sexist to think that a woman can’t even interact with another man without instantly wanting to hook up with him. All her interactions with Kylo are everything from violent to abusive, yet it’s hailed as true love. Rey says hi to Poe and suddenly it validates that she wants to hook up with him.

Meanwhile, Daisy has shot down both Poe and Kylo ships, but of course no one seems to acknowledge that a good portion of both Finn and Rey’s character arcs have been falling in love with each other. And since Oscar had said (jokingly???) that he plays Poe as a homosexual, it honestly just feels like Doomrey shippers are just another form of Reykow.