Tag: antisemitism

jewishcomeradebot:

devildart:

themandalorianwolf:

…oh really?

I’ll just leave this here.

Considering the holiday, esp with how literally everyones sidenote is Jews don’t celebrate it they celebrate that other one Kwanzaa/Hannukah (no really most people don’t know which they just know ones Jewish or assume they’re both the same thing), I think it’s safe to give him benefit of the doubt here and that he’s literally not trying to be mean y’all are just ridiculous and don’t realize how uninformed and stupid (even if we’ll meaning) the populace actually is.

As to why he didn’t go generic I’d again like to restate the populace is fucking stupid including the we’ll meaning ones.

Nice of you to extend benefit of the doubt on behalf of Jewish people when you’re not the intended target here. /sarcasm

Especially as you can’t tell the difference between Kwanzaa and Chanukkah, one being a secular Jewish holiday aggressively celebrating anti assimilation and the other being an African-American holiday that has nothing to do with Jewish people, Jewish holidays or Christmas.

I leave you to figure out which is which.

You and Rian have a lot in common. Such as not knowing when to sit down and shut up so the world doesn’t learn how stupid you are. But nah, gotta run your mouths both of you and enlighten the whole world to the scope of your ignorance.

Here’s a fun fact for you and Rian both. Two thirds of the world isn’t Christian and doesn’t celebrate Christmas. Of the over 4 billion people who do not celebrate Christian, Jewish people constitutes a tiny, tiny fraction. 

Like 0.01% of them to be more precise.

There’s no reason at all to make us a special target unless you just hate Jews.

Next time buddy, don’t extent benefits of the doubts for attacks on a group you’re not a part of. You have nothing worthwhile to say about it anyway and you just prove yourself to be an asshole.

Final pro tip for you. If you do something stupid or harmful your intention doesn’t fucking matter. If you’re a decent person you own up, apologize and don’t do it again. And we all move on.

Unfortunately most people aren’t decent and stumble at step one or step two. So we never get to step three or further.

But stay happy in your ignorance. You seem more comfortable with that than you know, actually learning something and moving on.

Seriously, if he was going to acknowledge everyone who doesn’t celebrate Christmas the list would have included Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs, Jainists, Wiccans, Asatru.. really more than the Twitter character limit can contain, and most of them more numerous than Jewish people. It’s a signal that alt-righters responded to when they came onto RJ’s comments with outright antisemitism. Maybe that was his clue that he’d put his foot in it, because I understand this tweet was deleted well ahead of the recent purge.

Is Rian a racist? He’s said great things about John being a star and all. Could he just personally identify more with Adam? Is that necessarily racist?

lj-writes:

From watching TLJ the conclusion is inescapable that he has some unexamined racism and a huge empathy gap going on.

He made that off-color joke about wishing a Merry Christmas except to everyone except Jewish people (link), something alt-righters climbed all over in celebration. He also, in a quickly deleted tweet, tried to compare Black Panther’s ratings bombing by white supremacists to TLJ’s low Rotten Tomatoes audience score. BP still got 79% on RT while TLJ has 46%, so there goes that theory lmao.

tikkunolamorgtfo:

morganeilish:

cannon-fannon:

therearenofuckinggoodnames:

khiroshige:

khiroshige:

europeans: *throws bananas at black athletes and politicians in their countries*

europeans: you americans are so obsessed with race… so strange….

Britain: *harasses the fuck out prince harry’s gf meghan markle for being a biracial black woman despite being white passing*

Britain: right? I don’t get this whole “race” thing Americans got going on

Europeans: pissed off about immigration in their countries

Europeans: *colonized the whole FUCKING world*

Australians: *supports the ‘stop the boats campaign’. let’s one nation back in. closed refugee detention centres and displaced the people*

Australians: we’re so tolerant and multicultural. idk y america has such an issue with race.

Canadians: *experience a rise in hate crimes against Muslim Canadians. Forced indigenous peoples off their land and into the horrific residential school system. Has a higher incarceration rate for poc than white people.*

Canadians: we’re way better and more tolerant up here than America. Why can’t they just learn from us.

Europeans: America’s race problem is so backward how did they even get like that LOL

Previously, on the last episode of Europe: Ugh, fuckin’ Jews and G*psies, amirite?

attackfish:

forevertranced:

plain-flavoured-english:

brainstatic:

Kylo Ren really is a great example for how sci fi/fantasy writers should tailor their worlds to fit the times, so it could resonate with the actual audience reading them. There would be no point in making a Hitler villain anymore, because we’re not afraid of Hitler, we’re afraid of the 25-year-old malcontented white boy who fondles Hitler memorabilia while sulking in his room.

Somebody pointed out to me that the First Order aren’t coded as Nazis, they’re coded as neo-Nazis, which is worse, because these are people who looked at horrific historical atrocities with the benefit of hindsight and went, ‘Yes, that’s exactly what we should do again, but this time more’

People complaining that Starkiller Base is a rip-off of the Death Star and that Kylo Ren is a whiny emo fanboy don’t realize that this is exactly the point

I like the reading but a big part of me thinks that these weren’t intended. The Force Awakens came out in 2015, which means it was probably written in 2014, and frankly I don’t think Disney execs (and probably the writers) were aware of the growing threat until 2017.

The script writers for The Force Awakens are Jewish, and wrote the script in a way that really reflected Jewish views of the Nazis as opposed to normative Gentile American views, and which drew heavily on the Jewish collective memories of the Holocaust, something I discuss at length here: [Link]. The Jewish community has in fact been very aware of the rising tide of explicit white supremacy on the Right for a long time, and like many other minority communities, we were (and are) afraid and not exactly quiet about it. The only people who were really taken unawares were white gentiles, something the writers were not. I think it’s almost insulting to suggest that Jewish people writing topical Nazi and neo-Nazi coded villains is somehow unintentional.

The Last Jedi finished shooting before Charlottesville, before neo-nazis became a thing again in the US. Clearly Disney wants to exploit “Ben Solo” for marketing values, but JJ still has creative independence from KK, right? And now they also know any get out of jail free card for Darth Tantrum will certainly cause critical backlash.

jewishcomeradebot:

Anon, you’re white right? At the very minimum you’re not Jewish or you wouldn’t be saying this shit:

lj-writes:

Idk, a lot of the commentary post-Charlottesville was about how hyuuuman Nazis are and how it’s wrong to be ruuuuude to them. It’s truly bizarre rhetoric that implicitly accuses the people who are targeted by Nazis of dehumanizing their aggressors, when the problem lies in the other direction.

A lot of the discourse around Kylo Ren’s character is similarly about how human and relatable he is and how it’s wrong to discount that. Well yes, we know he’s human. We also don’t think that means his actions are any less evil, or that he should be able to evade accountability for his actions.

The Last Jedi finished shooting before Charlottesville, before neo-nazis became a thing again in the US

Neo-Nazis have been a problem for Jewish people for decades. The only thing Charlottesville changed was that they now were so visible that white goyim couldn’t ignore them the way they had been for all those decades.

I’m so tired of the whole “neo-Nazis were a problem until last year” bs. Yes they were. Just because you all elected to ignore them because you were more comfortable with them and with Antisemitism than you were with Jewish people didn’t make them “not a problem”. They were just a problem you all chose to ignore.

It is quite possible that Disney also elected to ignore them as a problem because they thought it would serve them best financially to placate racist, Antisemitic white people, but that doesn’t mean that these fuckwits weren’t a problem. They were, they always have been.

Omg I completely missed that part sgshdkl there was also a comment I saw a while back saying J.J. couldn’t possibly have been thinking about neo-Nazis during the making of TFA because this was back in 2015, and some of us were like “um… whut”

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Comment from this thread

1. Tfw a reylow shipper uses a legal term–one redefined by the Bush administration to authorize torture–to justify wiping out an entire village. No, people don’t just “die” in SW, they are killed for justifiable or unjustifiable reasons and the village massacre was clearly unjustifiable. The massacre of Tuanul was also a direct callback to the Holocaust in a movie written and directed by Jewish creators, and yes, the Jewish and Romani villagers in these villages fought back which, according to you, would makes them enemy combatants and thus the Nazis justified in killing them for the crime of defending themselves and their children 🙂 fuck you 🙂

A further fuck you from an international law scholar because the term “enemy combatant” has NEVER EVER meant you can kill people after disarming them and rounding them up, which is what Ren did. The term is one used under the Geneva Conventions to define who could be imprisoned as a prisoner of war, who had rights including the right not to be KILLED OR TORTURED. Not even the Bush admin went so far as to argue they could kill “enemy combatant” prisoners out of hand, holy shit. You fucking heartless, dangerously disingenuous ignoramus.

2. Quite aside from the all sorts of fucked up erasure and dismissal in that comment, it’s amazing that the very crimes that made the Nazis so infamous, like mass murder, torture, and genocide, are fine when non-Nazis do it! Whew! Who knew one set of rules applied to Nazis and different rules to everyone else? Glad we cleared that up.

rootbeergoddess:

assian-candor:

I think what reylos fail to realise is that we don’t dislike the shippers because they ship it. We dislike shippers because they entirely misrepresent the ship itself, as well as the movies as a whole.

I, and many people that I’ve spoken to, hold all content to a pretty simple standard: It’s okay to like problematic content. It’s perfectly okay to enjoy media that contains iffy, or even outright offensive, elements – so long as you recognise that those elements exist and are an issue. Be critical of the media you consume, accept that it’s flawed, but don’t think that those problems mean you have to dislike the content.

Take the Star Wars prequels. I love the prequels, but it’s important to recognise the problems it has in terms of racist caricaturing, antisemitism, and the misogynistic way in which Padmé’s story is handled. The same goes for the original trilogy, to an extent – particularly how Jabba is a caricature of Middle Eastern sultans, and the Tusken Raiders are quite heavily islamophobic. And the sequel trilogy, particularly the antiblackness evident in the way Finn is written. These are all hugely important factors to consider when discussing the franchise, but that doesn’t mean you’re not allowed to enjoy the movies. That’s not to say you have to be loudly and consistently vocal about these issues – some people don’t have the time or the energy to do so, some people don’t know how to express it, some people prefer to keep their blogs (and lives) free of discourse and drama. We aren’t expecting everyone to write essay-length meta on how Star Wars is racist, we aren’t expecting the entire fandom to engage in discourse to the same degree, we just think it’s crucial to recognise that the content you enjoy isn’t squeaky clean and problem-free. When you say “I love Star Wars” we don’t expect you to tack “(even though it’s problematic!)” onto the end, but we hope that you accept that it’s problematic.

But this attitude (which is not specific to the Star Wars fandom, obviously) of viewing content in a critical and socially nuanced way is a relatively low bar that most people don’t struggle to meet. If someone told me they loved Star Wars, and I were to go, “Ah, but it’s antisemitic! Remember Watto?” chances are they’d respond with something along the lines of, “Yeah, that’s true. I know that. I still love the films though.” And that’s fine. That’s my stance! I love it despite that too! If I were to tell them that they shouldn’t enjoy their favourite film franchise because of that, they’d likely be outraged, or at least relatively annoyed, and justifiably so. As long as you acknowledge the problems, enjoy away. No one is stopping you from enjoying it or judging you for doing so. You should enjoy content whilst acknowledging its problems. Not by ignoring them, or defending them. And not by misrepresenting them.

That’s why, even if we have a problem with reylo on a fundamental level, most antis don’t automatically dislike the shippers. When we point out that reylo is abusive, we aren’t saying that shippers condone abuse. When we say that Rey’s interrogation scene is a rape parallel (Side note: to those reylos saying we shouldn’t throw the word “rape” around willy nilly and use it where we shouldn’t, we aren’t saying that scene is literally mind rape, we’re saying that the scene is very deliberately mirroring the power dynamics, behaviours, and emotions associated with sexual assault), we aren’t calling reylo shippers rape apologists. Because we know what nuance is. I haven’t seen any evidence of this myself personally, but I’m sure that plenty of reylo shippers realise that it’s abusive and are mindful of that. I’m sure plenty of reylos don’t expect – or even want – it to become canon, and quietly indulge in fan art or fanfiction or whatever the hell else whilst also accepting that it’s a problematic ship. When we point out that it’s abusive (and racist in many respects) we aren’t condemning shippers. It isn’t intended to make people feel guilty or evil for shipping it. It’s intended to raise an important issue which some people, especially shippers themselves (and particularly socially ignorant or uncritical ones), may not have considered. It’s giving reylos an opportunity to view their ship in a more nuanced and critical way, and reach their own conclusions based on that. Maybe some reylos will stop shipping it when they realise it’s abusive. Maybe some will realise that it is, and continue to ship it, whilst also bearing that element in mind and viewing the reylo content they consume in a different way. Many (and this is what I’ve seen from every reylo on this website so far) will completely disregard the abuse and the racism, pretend it’s not a problem whatsoever, continue shipping it, continue expecting it to become canon, and continue wanting to see it play out in the movies. It’s important to hold fandom ships to the same standard as any other element of the media they stem from – enjoy it all you want, but acknowledge the problems with it. Don’t ignore, defend, or misrepresent the problematic elements. 

But like I said, I’ve seen fucking none of that in the fandom myself, and I’ve been heavily involved in the Star Wars Tumblr fandom since a little before TFA was announced. And that’s not to say that I’m an authority on the fandom or that I know the thoughts and feelings of every reylo. But in the three and a half years that I’ve been a Star Wars blog, all I’ve seen is people either, A: flat-out claiming that reylo isn’t abusive at all, which serves to both ignore and misrepresent the very much intentional abuse parallels that are present right there on screen (and this is especially true for those reylos who make entire posts about how that one bit of eye contact or a slight smirk mean that his abusive behaviour is actually super duper lovey dovey romance), or B: defending the abuse itself, mostly blaming it on Kylo’s “mental illnesses” and saying he himself is a “victim of abuse” and a barrage of other weak excuses, many of which are ableist. It even goes as far as blatantly misrepresenting parts of the movies which have nothing to do with reylo (like Han’s death, or Kylo’s interactions with Snoke) to suit their ship. And this includes either photoshopping Finn out of scenes he shares with Rey, or whitewashing the ever-living fuck out of him, in order to literally replace him with Kylo. That’s fucked, my dudes.

Accepting content as problematic but enjoying it nonetheless only works if you take the content as it is presented to you, without manipulating or misrepresenting it. There would be far fewer anti-reylos if reylo shippers weren’t either lying about, or deliberately misunderstanding, the films. Bear in mind, anti-reylo doesn’t mean anti-shipper. I, and many others I imagine, don’t give a fuck if you ship it so long as you see it for what it is and are mindful of its problems. We’re only anti-shipper when the shippers themselves fail to meet a very low fucking standard which most people succeed at meeting. And most or all of the shippers I’ve seen fail to meet that standard, which makes me anti-them.

Ship it if you want. If you acknowledge its problems and ship it through a socially aware and nuanced lens whilst also seeing it for what it is, and as long as you keep yourself to yourself and quietly ship it without disrupting the fandom proper and starting needless drama,  I have no beef with you. But if you go to dramatic lengths to distort and defend blatant verbal and physical abuse, and racist misrepresentations of the content of the films, or if you completely disregard all the iffy elements of the ship and get angry when people level even so much as mild criticism against reylo, then you can – with all due respect – go fuck yourself.

Perhaps it’s unfair for us to expect everyone to hold content interaction to the same standard that we do. Perhaps it’s unfair to expect people to be critical and nuanced when it comes to media consumption. But given that it’s a standard held and met by almost all reputable content analysis outlets, it doesn’t seem all that unfair.

This is a good post

Indiana Jones and Schindler’s list aren’t very good examples of goyische ownership on holocaust imagery as they aren’t made by goyim (but I’m not sure if I’m misunderstanding why you used them as counter examples to how it’s treated by fans in TFA?)

lj-writes:

I didn’t know Indiana Jones was by Jewish creators, that’s good to know! I wasn’t presenting these movies as examples of claimed goyische ownership of Nazi/Holocaust imagery, though Triumph of the Will would certainly count in that category. I was pointing out that no movie, outside of maybe rigorous academic documentaries, can meet the precise academic standard some fans demand of Star Wars for the FO to be “true” Nazis. Not even, or maybe especially, Triumph of the Will, which depicts actual real-life Nazi officials including Hitler. My point was that the portrayals of Nazis real and fictional has always been partial; even Triumph showed only the parts the Nazis themselves wanted you to see. Why demand such an unrealistically high standard for historical realism of Star Wars, a space action flick? Doesn’t that seem to be aimed at delegitimizing the use of Nazi and Holocaust imagery by a Jewish creator to depict some of the horror and trauma experienced by Jewish people?

jewishcomeradebot:

Why is it that when a goy uses Nazi imagery for fictional villains as a short hand for Evil Bad Guys ™ or just for the Aesthetics ™ no one, literally not one of you goyische assholes ever went:

divorcing the Nazi Party and its supporters from its historical/cultural context in that way can be seen as trivialising the very real horrors committed leading up to/during WW2

Can you answer me that?

And yet when a Jewish person dares to make the analogy not just visually undeniable, but trying to do in-universe justice to the parallel, to show exactly the kind of horrors these people committed, this is exactly what you all will say in some version.

None of you are even remotely subtle at this point. We – Jewish people – are only acceptable as long as we let goyim appropriate our trauma and the Aesthetics ™ of the people who committed them. Personally we should not ever dare apply, or use it because then you’d all have to face what Nazis actually were and not just your acceptable, goywashed bad guys.

It seems to me like a lot of white goyim think that Nazism and Holocaust imagery are theirs to claim and use, not Jewish and Romani people’s. Few say so out loud, of course, though I did see a German blogger say only Germans (meaning German goyim, I presume) are allowed to define who is a Nazi. They don’t need to say Nazi imagery belongs to them, though, because it’s obvious in the way they treat these images, in the double standard that you point out for Jewish and goyim creators using Nazi and Holocaust imagery.

Another way I suspect this supposed goyim ownership of Nazi imagery manifests is the sudden fixation on how the depiction of the FO has to conform to the precise academic definitions of Nazism, the 17 ideological markers or whatnot in order for it to “count” as a depiction of Nazism. Not only is this a laughable demand for a blockbuster movie, it’s perpetrator-centered thinking and not victim-centered. Seriously. When you’re being subjected to every brutality under the sun, who CARES about the ideological basis for destroying you? I seriously doubt that the experiences of those who were targeted for destruction centered around the precise academic definitions of their tormentors’ ideology. All that’s clear is the plain and empirical fact that they hate you. That hate did not start with the Nazis and did not end with them.

JJ Abrams didn’t lay out the ideology and the full range of the FO’s policies, but this works on three levels. First, it’s a space opera action flick, of fucking course it’s not going to be an academic documentary about Nazism. People are demanding an impossible standard of proof there, and by this standard no Nazis have ever appeared onscreen in the history of cinema. Certainly not in Indiana Jones. Not in Triumph of the Will. Not even in Schindler’s List.

Second, why should Abrams have engaged with a hateful ideology in his movie for it to be a valid use of Nazi and Holocaust imagery, exploring Nazism intellectually and giving it an airing as though it deserved serious thought? That’s how you get the Thanos situation, where people “see their point” and “understand” the villains. That’s how you spread this kind of vile ideology, by trying to be “fair” and showing “both sides.” No.

Third, I’d argue that Abrams did show Nazi ideology in TFA, the only parts that count: the senseless murders in Tuanul, Hux’s terrifying speech, the destruction of Hosnia, Finn’s trauma, Poe and Rey’s torture. I think that’s what makes people so uncomfortable, that Abrams showed a small amount of what the Nazis actually did, or would have if they could. He showed what it was like for the victims, and that’s what’s really unforgivable here. That’s what people call “trivializing,” because he claimed and used Nazi and Holocaust imagery without turning it into torture porn, because he showed the victims as strong and vital people who were allowed–especially in Finn’s case–to experience their trauma fully and fight back without apology.