“Finn is the military part of the trilogy, him having the force wouldn’t work.”
Characters who have had the force and were also apart of the military aspects:
Kanan Jarrus
Ezra Bridger
Ahsoka Tano
Luke Skywalker
Rey
General Leia Organa
EVERY SINGLE JEDI IN TCW THAT WENT BY GENERAL OR COMMANDER
The force and the military have never been separated. Even TLJ, can’t erase the fact that Rey specifically says she’s with the Resistance and was sent to Luke because of them.
Finn can have the force and be a commander in the Resistance. Y’all just looking for reasons to make him less important. It’s a you problem, not a Finn problem.
I don’t get why people think Finn both being a military leader and having the Force is somehow strange for Star Wars. After all, we have a rather outsized example of this already.
It’s not just the combination of Force and military abilities either, but also the characters’ story positions. Finn being the “war” part of the triad gives him the position Leia should
have occupied in the OT, the character with ties to both the military
and the Force who embodies what the war is about: The human face of the
Empire’s atrocities, the survivor who chose to fight. Leia should have
been the central figure of the war and not Han’s plus-one on what
were essentially his plots and missions.
Done right Leia would have been
more like Katniss in The Hunger Games, damaged and traumatized from her
experiences, inspiring by her story and example. RO tried to shoehorn
Jynn into Katniss’s Mockingjay role except it never worked because Jynn
didn’t have the representative story. Obviously the Mockingjay figures
were Cassian and the Jedhans (Bodhi, Chirrut, Baze), but yet again SW
shied away from giving center stage to victims of wide-scale atrocities.
It shied away again with Finn in TLJ.
This refusal to have central Mockingjay figures, I believe, reflects SW’s basic ambivalence as a franchise that is more comfortable with destined saviors than with exploited and destroyed peoples saving themselves. Maybe that comes of SW being a USAmerican franchise dealing with fascism, the contradiction of a country that is fundamentally fascistic and imperialistic trying to tell itself a story of being antifascist and anti-imperialist. America can’t face the full implication of truly upending its fascist underpinnings, in fiction as in reality. Instead the brutal form of fascism is replaced by the “soft” fascism of worshipping benign supermen.
Then along comes JJ Abrams, someone in a position to know the contradictions and falsity in the story America tells about itself. He shows the New Republic’s compromise with fascism destroying it morally as well as physically, a year ahead of the 2016 election. He shows how the worship of the Skywalkers as the chosen line gave us Kylo Ren. He gives us Finn, one of the First Order’s victims, as a strong and central figure.
Finn in IX could be the character that Leia could have been–the one who ties it all together, the military plot and the Force plot, the story of war with the story of spirituality and morality. He could be the character that embodies both the evil of the First Order and the determination, on a personal, visceral level, to fight it. He could be the character that brings audiences face to face with what it means when people who are considered expendable in the quest for greatness stand up and fight back. He could solve the Star Wars dilemma and finally break the vicious cycle of destruction the galaxy far, far away has become trapped in. I certainly hope so.
I’ve been thinking about which roles Finn and Poe could be playing in the Resistance in IX. Since they’re both leadership types there would be a great chance of the two of them tripping over each other narratively if they fill a similar capacity, especially since the Resistance according to Oscar is still very small. But with the new Star Wars show “Resistance” once more emphasizing Poe’s role in espionage I think they might give us general Finn and spy master Poe.
It would let both men play to their strengths and experiences while not tripping over each other plot wise.
Finn is a talented leader and great at inspiration. He has knowledge of, and talent for, unconventional battle tactics that works. One of the reasons Phasma wanted him for the officers track in the First Order before he noped out of that fascist regime in epic fashion. With any kind of sizable time skip, which we’re almost certain to see, Finn would have had to gain experience as well making him an excellent general for the Resistance.
Poe has experience with intelligence gathering and espionage from before he became involved in the Resistance. And a tiny Resistance would rely heavily on correct intel and prior knowledge of targets if their attacks were to have any effect against the First Order and not cost themselves too dearly in soldiers and materiel they cannot afford to lose.
In fact such a division could make for a good set up for roles for the entire heroic quartet as @lj-writes pointed out to me, with Finn leading the Resistance’s martial arm, Poe’s its intelligence capacities, Rey at least for the time being representing its Jedi/mystical capabilities and Rose rounding out the leadership by representing the all important support personnel – mechanics, medics, ect – without which the Resistance would not survive long.
~Mod Mara
The Resistance relying so heavily on intelligence would also be a nice dovetail into Poe being the Resistance’s overall leader, something he was being set up for in… pretty much every piece of franchise material he appeared in, most explicitly in The Last Jedi and the Poe Dameron comic.
This sets up an interesting dynamic between Finn and Poe, among others, because Finn has never been… how shall we say it… good with orders and bosses. I mean, ask the aforementioned Phasma. Wait you can’t lmaoooo
Even aside from the part where Finn understandably flips the bird to fascists, Poe himself tried to give Finn something approaching orders twice in two movies and Finn was 0/2 in following them. “We’re going back to Jakku!” “No, that’s stupid.” “Come back, this mission is a bust!” “Hell 2 the No!!”
This independence of thought is part of Finn’s strength and in fact in the best tradition of the Rebellion, e.g. Cassian, Raddus, Lando…, but it does mean that Poe would be foolish to expect a traditional superior-subordinate relationship with Finn. It’s interesting to speculate how Poe will carry forward his experience with Holdo and Leia in dealing with Finn. (I’m fine with the Holdo episode being quickly forgotten, personally. I mean, literally, “That’s not how the Rebellion works!”)
I think the franchise’s recent emphasis on maintenance and materiel–most prominently fuel–looks promising for Rose’s role. It’s also part of the reason I speculated that supplies will be a major part of Episode IX. As you pointed out, Rose’s technical expertise makes her indispensable to this side of the Resistance’s operations, making her vital for both intelligence and military operations. Rose started her career in the Resistance as a flight mechanic, serving aboard a bomber and providing real-time support in the thick of battle, and with the Resistance understaffed as it is she could reprise that role. It would lead to personal challenges, too, because the Cobalt Squadron book tells us that being responsible for lives in battle took a toll on her preexisting anxiety issues and she always flew with Paige before. The first time she didn’t, well, that was when Paige died.
Rey’s role as the Jedi is the vaguest, in some ways. Like you I am not enamored with the idea of her getting yet a third confrontation with Kylo Ren. This isn’t the Luke situation with Vader, where Luke was able to avoid confrontation with Vader altogether in the first movie, suffered defeat and a shocking revelation in the second, and was primed for a rematch in the third. She’s already beaten Kylo 2 for 2, there’s nothing to prove by kicking his ass a third time. She explicitly tried to replicate Luke’s Vader redemption ending, that bridge is crossed and burned. He tried Palpatine-style temptation on her, again, didn’t work. She was going for the RotJ ending and he for the RotS one, and they both failed. There’s nothing left in that direction that isn’t a boring repeat. As I said before, I’d find it interesting if she took point on eliminating the Knights of Ren so they can’t tamp down discontent in the FO ranks, causing chaos in the FO, kind of a “defeat the middle bosses to unlock the big boss” situation.
It’s Finn, not Rey, who is in Luke’s situation with this series’ Big Bad. Only it’s Luke’s sequence reversed, with a defeat and injury in the first movie and avoidance of confrontation in the second, leaving tension for the final confrontation. His position representative of the Resistance’s martial arm places him on a direct collision course with Kylo Ren. Now that’s a grudge match I’m up for.
More like throw in Force Ghost Luke. Much as I’d like LFL/Disney to think in terms of LGBT rep I’m pretty sure that’s not happening.
Okay, I confess I’m a bit confused here. The “no homo” part I get, but “no ghosts and no supernatural” I don’t. Can someone enlighten me? Google isn’t really being helpful or I’m looking for the wrong thing entirely.
I think no ghosts and no supernatural falls under “propagating cults and superstition” (link). Black Panther had a blatant spirit world and conversations with spirits, though, and it was not only allowed in China but did quite well so #NotAllGhosts it seems. I suspect the rule has more to do with suppressing domestic religious fervor that might be a threat, e.g. Falun Gong. Also ancestral spirits like the ones in BP, particularly paternal, may be looked upon more kindly in a Confucian worldview. Hey, so if Luke is someone’s dad he can show up as a ghost? Good news for ReySkys and FinnSkys!
They have an already established relationship that goes back quite a bit before TLJ and Poe obviously likes Rose a lot. And Rose like Poe in return.
Not to mention that Poe’s, “How did did you two meet?”, followed by, “Good luck?”, when Rose answers, “Just luck”, can easily read as jealousy of Finn.
He has been developing romantic feelings for Rose but haven’t found the place and time to talk to her about it and now suddenly here’s Finn, the gorgeous, dashing young man who Rose obviously likes a lot and he feels defeated. Not that he think Rose owes him anything, he just wishes that Rose would look at him the way she looks at Finn.
And Rose clearly trust Poe above all else. Having outgrown her unhealthy hero worship of Finn and realized that she’s all the hero she’s ever going to need would make for an excellent basis for a romance between her and Poe.
Evidently there’s a passage in Star Wars Adventures where Rose saves Poe’s life by opening the Raddus’s hangar door where no one else knew how to. She’d just been… like… reading the manual like the giant dork she is. I can imagine her really standing out to him from that moment on.
I’ve seen it suggested that without Bendemption and Reylo, IX will be nothing but a moral-conflict-free romp for our heroes. And seriously, wtf?
Finn is a walking moral dilemma all on his own. Because for him and everyone who loves him he raises a terrible question about every enemy Stormtrooper they kill – could they have been another Finn in the making?
The First Order is an organisation run by powerful people who made terrible choices. But its wars are fought by child soldiers who were never given any choice at all.
That’s what makes the battle we’re set to see happen in IX so fascinating. It’s not that the causes themselves are morally grey. The Resistance are clearly fighting for good and the First Order is unquestionably evil. And yet good can’t fight its cause without slaughtering innocents, and I think that’s the most interesting possible dilemma we could be asked to see play out.
And hell yeah I want to see Finn try to resolve it by leading a Stormtrooper revolt. And I want conflict among our heroes too. I want Rey, with her absolutist morality, to oppose Finn. I want Rey to show her love for Finn *through* her opposition – it’s because she believes Finn is so very special, so brave and so good-hearted that she doesn’t think any other Stormtroopers can live up to his example.
And I want Finn to want to believe that what she thinks about him is true – while doing everything he can to prove her wrong. And in succeeding, in leading his fellow Stormtroopers to freedom, he’ll show what *is* special about him as well as what’s special in everyone, if you can find a way of calling it out.
I want IX to explore every crack and fault line in Finn and Rey’s relationship so they can discover together how strong its foundations are.
This makes perfect sense because you know what else would have hardened Rey against the idea of redemption for fascist killers?
The incident with “Ben” would have only confirmed in Rey’s mind that Finn is one of a kind, and that expecting others to follow Finn’s example would only end in heartbreak and destruction. She was burned badly when she trusted in Kylo Ren’s goodness and wouldn’t want Finn to risk his emotions and life in the same way, on a far greater scale with potentially deadly consequences at that. She barely made it out herself and can’t bear the thought of losing him.
If the story went this way it would be yet another parallel to Anidala, except much more robust. As seen in a clip from AotC (link), Padmé believed steadfastly in democracy–for some people anyway, Clones, Tuskens and other undesirables need not apply–while Anakin did not shy away from advocating a dictatorship in the face of democratic dysfunction. Similarly, we would get to see Finn believe in ordinary people’s ability to make choices for the good, with his vision being actually democratic and not just thinly-disguised aristocratic rule like the Senate that Padmé believed in. Rey’s healthy skepticism in the idea that non-Finn people brought up to evil could turn away from it would be sympathetic and rational under the circumstances.
Under this scenario it’s interesting that Finn and Rey are confirmed to be together for all or most of IX. Depending on how early this conflict starts we could watch them in truly interesting arguments yet still bound together by the mission and mutual affection. And man would I love it.
*time for tinfoil hat*
Reading that leak on reddit (spoilers in link, duh). If that scene and the whole Wadi Rum sequence happens early and if it is as I suspect a battle with the First Order Finn, Rey and Chewie finds themselves in, it could be the starting shot for that.
Finn ran into Nines on the battlefield on Takodana, this battle may again confront him with an old “friend” from his Stormtropper days. But what if that person or squad does not immediately try to kill him? The FO isn’t going to be able to keep knowledge about Finn’s defection and escape secret from its foot soldiers forever and while a good deal will go with the Nines mentality (traitor!) others would be considering trying to get out too.
Of course getting out and then staying alive is hard when you have no one on the outside on your side. But if they’re confronted with Finn they might see him a possibility to get them away from the First Order’s clutches.
Depending on how exactly such a scene played out it could open up a lot of interesting ways the story of IX could go.
~Mod Mara
Remember how we were geeking out pre-TLJ about the possibility of seeing Zeroes? If we see him on screen I would die. Like absolutely croak. It would make sense, too, for Finn’s old squadmates to represent the gamut of Stormtrooper responses to their situation.
Slip: The victim. Was part of Finn’s brutal awakening to the reality of the First Order and left his mark on Finn, literally.
Nines: The believer. Reacted to Finn’s “betrayal” with self-righteous anger. Also canon fodder but got in some blows at his old squad leader, verbal and physical.
Zeroes: The survivor, going by his Before the Awakening characterization. As I discussed in a pre-TLJ meta that was largely about him (link), Zeroes in BtA is a sharp, ambitious guy who is very aware of power relations and is good at reading people. He has the makings of a top-notch intelligence officer and, on the flip side, would be just the type to pull the strings of an uprising from the inside.
If Zeroes were to encounter Finn in battle I can see him putting on a good show of trying to get Finn and his friends while failing to land the fatal blow and sending a message that way. Finn puzzles over it, finds out more, and later they have their confrontation with Finn going “YOU” and Zeroes being all calm and smug like the smooth operator he is.
I’ve seen it suggested that without Bendemption and Reylo, IX will be nothing but a moral-conflict-free romp for our heroes. And seriously, wtf?
Finn is a walking moral dilemma all on his own. Because for him and everyone who loves him he raises a terrible question about every enemy Stormtrooper they kill – could they have been another Finn in the making?
The First Order is an organisation run by powerful people who made terrible choices. But its wars are fought by child soldiers who were never given any choice at all.
That’s what makes the battle we’re set to see happen in IX so fascinating. It’s not that the causes themselves are morally grey. The Resistance are clearly fighting for good and the First Order is unquestionably evil. And yet good can’t fight its cause without slaughtering innocents, and I think that’s the most interesting possible dilemma we could be asked to see play out.
And hell yeah I want to see Finn try to resolve it by leading a Stormtrooper revolt. And I want conflict among our heroes too. I want Rey, with her absolutist morality, to oppose Finn. I want Rey to show her love for Finn *through* her opposition – it’s because she believes Finn is so very special, so brave and so good-hearted that she doesn’t think any other Stormtroopers can live up to his example.
And I want Finn to want to believe that what she thinks about him is true – while doing everything he can to prove her wrong. And in succeeding, in leading his fellow Stormtroopers to freedom, he’ll show what *is* special about him as well as what’s special in everyone, if you can find a way of calling it out.
I want IX to explore every crack and fault line in Finn and Rey’s relationship so they can discover together how strong its foundations are.
This makes perfect sense because you know what else would have hardened Rey against the idea of redemption for fascist killers?
The incident with “Ben” would have only confirmed in Rey’s mind that Finn is one of a kind, and that expecting others to follow Finn’s example would only end in heartbreak and destruction. She was burned badly when she trusted in Kylo Ren’s goodness and wouldn’t want Finn to risk his emotions and life in the same way, on a far greater scale with potentially deadly consequences at that. She barely made it out herself and can’t bear the thought of losing him.
If the story went this way it would be yet another parallel to Anidala, except much more robust. As seen in a clip from AotC (link), Padmé believed steadfastly in democracy–for some people anyway, Clones, Tuskens and other undesirables need not apply–while Anakin did not shy away from advocating a dictatorship in the face of democratic dysfunction. Similarly, we would get to see Finn believe in ordinary people’s ability to make choices for the good, with his vision being actually democratic and not just thinly-disguised aristocratic rule like the Senate that Padmé believed in. Rey’s healthy skepticism in the idea that non-Finn people brought up to evil could turn away from it would be sympathetic and rational under the circumstances.
Under this scenario it’s interesting that Finn and Rey are confirmed to be together for all or most of IX. Depending on how early this conflict starts we could watch them in truly interesting arguments yet still bound together by the mission and mutual affection. And man would I love it.
I love this. And also I love that in this scenario their dynamic is reversed from what it was in TFA – with Finn bravely ready to step back into the maw of the First Order and Rey terrified for his life and begging him not to go.
L.J.'s Obsessions 