sonfaro:

sonfaro:

sonfaro:

miracleatmidnight:

sonfaro:

miracleatmidnight:

Erik Killmonger: *has killed people*

Erik Killmonger:*executed an order to kill more*

Erik Killmonger: *was traumatised as a child*

Erik Killmonger: *has amazing character depth and story, with realistic justifications*

Y’all: oH mY gOd I LoVe hIM aMaZINg chArAcTeR sO pUre and rIGHTEOUS

Kylo Ren: *has killed people*

Kylo Ren: *executed order to kill more*

Kylo Ren: *was traumatised as a child*

Kylo Ren: *has amazing character depth and story, with realistic justification*

Y’all: fUcK KeELo rOn hE is aN aBuSeR aNd dEsErVes noThINg

so? which is it?

What’s Kylo’s justification for joining the Space Nazis?  Like literally all we’ve got is that he was a lonely kid and his uncle looked like he’d kill him.  That’s not justification at all.

Wakanda MURDERED Killmongers dad, and allowed black people around the world to suffer for generations.  THAT’S justification.

Also, anyone calling Erik Killmonger ‘pure’ is a crazy person.  Doubly so for Kylo.

Ah, you might be right there. ‘Justification’ may have been the wrong word to use but he had reasons – his own reasons, and I guess that’s where people who like kylo and those who dislike him differentiate, because it can come off as selfish, or whatever (I’m not supporting kylo’s choices or actions, btw. You can like a character and recognise all the bad things they’ve done eg. Loki, Anakin/Vader who are both beloved in their respective fandoms) But because he joined a ‘nazi organisation’ doesn’t mean he cant realise along the way all the wrong that he’s done and then seek redemption, which is a very likely path to go down (much, much like the maximoff siblings, may I remind you). Also pls don’t downplay his backstory – Ben was led to believe that his own family wanted to murder him. Kylo was manipulated and pushed down the wrong path by Snoke, much like Anakin was by Palpatine.

I really don’t want to come off as ignorant, because if anything I understand and /like/ Erik more than I do Kylo. I just want to comprehend how some of y’all can pick and choose which characters are deemed worthy of praise when they have more or less of the same premises.

But his reasons aren’t good ones.  The movies he’s in prove that with both Finn and Rey – who both also have terrible childhoods with people attempting to manipulate and taint them and still turn out to be good people.

Lots of folk ‘like’ Kylo as a villain.  The problem comes when folks try to downplay his villainy.  A lot of the backlash comes from folks like that, who see his single-child loneliness as an excuse as opposed to an explanation.

There’s also a MAJOR difference in characterization between them.  Killmonger never whines, never throws a fit, never loses his grip.  He’s fueled by rage but it’s calculated, and because of this he comes off as a cool villain.  There’s also the racial element, as Killmonger’s attitude speaks to a lot of frustrated African-americans tired of systems of oppression.

Kylo on the other hand, loses his mind at the slightest hint that his plan isn’t going his way.  He isn’t all put together, he does pout a lot.  This makes him appear to be less cool villain and more edgelord basement dwelling alt-right douchebro for some people.  He doesn’t have a righteous but flawed cause that speaks to people, he straight just chose fascism because he wants control for his own life.

BOTH are massively abusive to women.  This cannot be ignored.  Both are twisted, sick, and evil.  Both are wrong.  But only one of them has a message rooted in something worth fighting for.

Also, in response to you here:

“kylo’s story is much more complicated than “just wanting to be like his grandfather” and it sucks you can’t see that (I’m not blaming u lol). Kylo killing his father was supposed to solidify his role as a villain, which would have been great – but it didn’t, because it didn’t solidify anything at all. Instead, it broke him even more ie. what I mean by his story is far more complex than some people believe. Killed padawans, you say (which like you said, is only implied)? Like Anakin??“

It does solidify him as a villain.  He murders one of the original hero’s in cold blood and pushes him off a bridge.  That he feels sad about it later doesn’t alter the fact that he’s done it.  Instead of changing, he doubles down on this ill behavior, causing many more deaths, and tempts our heroine with manipulation so he can cause even more.  He’s a villain.  That he’s a sad villain doesn’t change that.

And it’s not “implied“ it’s flat out said that he killed the other students who didn’t side with him.  And yes it’s like Anakin, who deserved and got death for his crimes.

@miracleatmidnight I feel like you’re arguing two separate things.

“so tell me why people still love Anakin/Vader as a character??”

He’s a compelling hero as Anakin (in the Clone Wars Cartoon.  Folks made fun of Hayden Christianson constantly when the prequels came out – remember the “sand” monologue) and a terrifying villain.

Kylo isn’t a hero and can come off as too whiney for some to be the villain.  Also a lot of his fans pretend that his childhood trauma gives him excuses.

“When in quite literally the last seconds of his life he got the redemption he needed??” 

Via death.  Most folks are okay with that for Kylo.

“Why is it so hard to believe that Kylo can get that same redemption???? 

Death?  I don’t think that’s hard to believe.  A bunch of Kylo fans insist it HAS to be life though – and more, life with Rey.

Yeah, comparing Kylo Ren’s and Killmonger’s motivations is immediately suspect. One is an entitled and elitist Nazi analogue and the other was an abandoned orphan reacting to centuries of brutality.

Also when was Erik ever redeemed? He never repented, never changed his ways, he lost a fight and died. No one insists he should have a happy ending with Nakia, even me, and I think I’m one of the bigger Nakerik shippers.