I just want to congratulate the members of the dogpile – you’ve finally drawn a bona-fide “Patriot” to your ranks! It’s hard to miss it if you check the notes – it’s a bunch of rightwing cartoons + something about how they were warned about fascists like me.
Anyway, good job! They may never have found my lil post of it wasn’t for yall Making Tumblr Great!
One would think having company like that would be their “Are we the baddies?” moment, but I’m guessing it won’t be.
Someone saying, “Personally, I’ve had more problems with x group than y group” is not the same thing as saying, “x group is literally a million times worse than y group,” and unless they try to paint their personal experiences as universal or ignore any potential power differences that make the two things nowhere close to equivalent, it seems foolish to be angry with them or to demand an apology for saying that x is worse than y.
If someone is saying, “I have experienced more bigotry from x type of people than y type of people in my own life,” they aren’t saying y people aren’t bigoted or that y people don’t exist. “I haven’t run into y people in these spaces, but I run into x people a lot” is also not saying y people aren’t bad or don’t exist.
So a black person saying, “I have experienced more racism from white women in fandom spaces than from far right men” or whatever else isn’t saying the far right isn’t racist. They’re saying that the racism of white women in fandom spaces has personally been a bigger part of their life.
And it might surprise you, but literally any white person is capable of being racist. Even women. Even in fandom spaces. And people of color are allowed to speak up about that.
We as white people should not be taking these critiques personally or be demanding to know why someone would imply we are worse than some other group. That’s not what is being said.
And it isn’t misogynistic to call out racism that is committed by women.
Fandom spaces are not perfect. Women are not perfect. White people are not perfect.
Sometimes, it’s good to criticize media. It’s good to look at it and say “hey this is messed up in ways that aren’t okay.” Sometimes critics have valid points. That’s fine, that’s okay.
What isn’t okay, and what antis regularly do, is attack people for liking things when they’ve found something wrong with it, and often that something wrong isn’t even actually something wrong but something they were reaching at to be wrong, and sometimes they’re only doing it to invalidate whatever they don’t like.
Doing the opposite of what antis do, which is shut down any and all criticism ever, is not the solution to this, and every now and then I catch y’all doing it. You’re so wound up over antis that you can’t allow reasonable critiques, and that’s not good.
Please keep in mind that the problem with antis is that they invent reasons for things to be bad, blow minor things out of proportion to make them look worse (or bad at all), and then viciously attack anyone who engages with it in ways they don’t approve of. The problem is not that they criticize it at all.
I’m not saying this as a judgement on anti-antis as a whole. I don’t think of this as something that makes all anti-antis terrible and bad. I think you’re all reasonable people who’ve been stuck dealing with unreasonable people for way too long. But sometimes you need to take a step back and really look at what you’re reacting to for what it is.
This is so valid because literally earlier today I saw some white anti antis attack a woc just because she said fandom spaces are full of racism, which is a fucking fact. They were twisting her words and even going as far as accusing her of using alt right dog whistles and one white user even said that she’s the reason good conversations about racism don’t happen, like that would actually be a woc’s fault and not racists’ fault lmao. It’s fine to disagree or whatever but to say those things to a black woman is fucking disgusting and unnecessary and it isn’t the first time I’ve seen fucked up racist bullshit from that side of shipping discourse. It’s shit like that that makes me reject calling myself an anti anti. I agree with what 99% of y’all think but y’all literally make me feel unsafe based on the behavior I’ve observed from y’all.
Just because someone has criticism about fandom spaces or your side of the discourse, that doesn’t mean they’re an anti or misogynistic/homophobic/or what ever other labels y’all hurl at people for daring to think fandom isn’t perfect. Y’all are alienating people that would otherwise be on your side because of your behavior. Please do better.
For the record, this is the post diskhorsedudes is referring to that got so many anti-antis riled up
(Gonna mention @diversehighfantasy since I’m posting screenshots of their post)
I don’t think they’re saying shipping communities deserve to be taken down because of racism but rather that there is racism in fandom spaces that needs to be addressed and that we shouldn’t treat them like they’re entirely good and pure. It’s a criticism on a common criticism.
The responses they got seemed to be people operating under the assumption that OP meant “fandom is racist, destroy it all, the purge is a good thing,” which then included vicious attacks, including “so you hate adult women?,” “this is why we can’t talk about racism” (OP is a woc), and “so fandom is worse than Nazis?”. None of which are what I believe OP was trying to say. Notice that OP didn’t even mention Nazis. Just racists.
Whether you agree with the OP is up to you, but you gotta know what OP is trying to say in the first place. If you think the way I’ve read what diversehighfantasy said isn’t what they meant, I’d love to hear what you think they meant. Especially if you’re diversehighfantasy themselves. After all, maybe I’m just too heavily inclined to see the best in people. But with what I think they were trying to say in mind vs what other people are responding with, i think we all need to take a step back and read it again.
Yes, that’s what I said, and what I meant. The glorification part was a reference to publications like Glamour and Slate tweeting about Tumblr ruining the sanctity of fandom as a safe place for women. (It’s not a safe place for women if it’s not safe for Black women).
Then I see fandom people who ordinarily try to shut down talking about race saying Tumblr ignores racism. Which is true, but it’s more than a little lacking in self awareness to take a stand for racism while ignoring the fact that fandom is full if it.
One of the your responses pointed out that I specifically compared neo Nazis to fandom.
This is going to be uncomfortable. I’ll say it again, I have had neo Nazis come at me, usually in a mocking way. But in my experience blogging about fandom racism, the harassment, campaigns to take me down and blatant lies about me have been from women in fandom. That’s a fact of my Tumblr experience. I WISH it was so neat and tidy that I only got harassed by male neo Nazis. It would be a lot easier. I’d get a lot more support and sympathy, for sure. But that’s not my experience on Tumblr, and if that upsets people, attacking the messenger doesn’t make it not true.
@bai-xue-lives “dogwhistles” lmaoo. I don’t do dogwhistles, that’s why yall so mad.
Did @bai-xue-lives srsly use a word that denotes racist signaling and use it against a Black woman talking about racism
They sure did! And they erased the fact that I say what I mean to make ME look like I’m using alt-right tactics lol
It wasn’t a dog whistle, it was a bullhorn and they hated it for that reason. Racist speakers use dog whistles because they can’t come out and say outright what they mean, and their audiences are complicit in the charade. Speaker and audience both want some hazy distance from the repugnant reality of what they’re advocating. They’re not in favor of murdering civil rights volunteers, they just believe in states’ rights! They don’t think Black people are drains on the system, they’re just against welfare queens! They don’t think Black and brown people are underachieving dolts who fake their own oppression, they just don’t want affirmative action! And so on and so forth ad infinitum.
Pointing out that Nazis/the alt right and fandom racism are on the same continuum of racist thought is the exact opposite of a dog whistle, it’s smashing the whistle and pushing people’s faces right into the ugliness they were distancing themselves from. You want fandom dog whistles? Ask why Kylo Ren assaulting Rey is a romantic bridal carry but Finn taking Rey’s hand to save her literal life is sexual harassment. Ask why Kylo Ren is called a victim and the male lead while Finn is called a murderer and a bit character. Ask why BS is considered a romantic hero while Finn is treated as harmless comic relief. Ask why shippers keep and keep and KEEP saying BS is the first person to care about Rey. Ask why fans sigh about ultra-powerful ForceBabies and say Disney would be crazy to pass on those moneymaker Reylo kids, because Finnrey babies wouldn’t earn money I guess, or it doesn’t occur to them to even consider her marrying a guy she loves enough to lie down and die with? I wonder why 🤔
Fandom racism is an entire collection of dog whistles and calling them out for what they are is absolutely unforgivable in fandom’s eyes. It always has been.
Seriously tho, don’t use “but the racists are getting a pass!” while complaining that shipping communities are losing a safe and empowering place to share porn.
The most dominant shipping communities uphold racist aesthetic ideals, methodically erase people of color from their narratives and uphold white men as superior to all – and they continue to congratulate themselves for their own enlightenment while doing it.
Instead of glorifying shipping communities as empowering spaces for women, this is an opportunity to talk about what’s really lurking under that so-called subversive feminism.
After all the ugliness they’ve injected into Tumblr fan spaces, we can do better than letting them go down as martyrs. (Again.)
Just say you’re happy the purge happened and be done with it lmao
Imagine taking a fan objecting to the sanitization of fandom racism and twisting her words into advocating censorship.
Imagine thinking that shipping in any way compares to running hate blogs and twisting this whole trainwreck into being shippers’ faults, somehow
You’ll have to point out where op said shipping equals racism. She said racism is rampant in dominant shipping communities, which does not translate into all shippers being dedicated white supremacists. One has to wonder why you construe this as a personal attack on shippers.
“don’t use “but the racists are getting a pass!” while complaining that shipping communities are losing a safe and empowering place to share porn.”
That right there by necessity posits that shippers and racists (specifically meaning white supremacists in the context of the overall discussion on tumblr) are two sides of the same coin
We all know that racism is a problem in fandom. We know that. However, specifically relating it to the issue of white supremacist blogs being left untouched while transformative fiction blogs are purged, with the implication that somehow white supremacy and shipping can be compared in any way, is disingenuous at best.
This post is bad (or, at the very least, badly worded) and OP should feel bad.
If you can’t see the fundamental disingenuousness in the dichotomy the op objected to–between white supremacists on the one hand and “empowering” fandom communities on the other–then you don’t actually see fandom racism as a problem. If you give lip service to the idea of fandom racism but jump on to derail a post about fandom racism, if you whine about fandom being painted unfairly while ignoring how Black women who talk about fandom racism are harassed and attacked and threatened and called fascists and worse (gee, I wonder why op might not see much daylight between fandom’s treatment of her and outright alt right assholes?), then no, you don’t see fandom racism as a problem. You’re saying you do while being ready and willing to attack the people most affected who actually do speak out about it.
Seriously tho, don’t use “but the racists are getting a pass!” while complaining that shipping communities are losing a safe and empowering place to share porn.
The most dominant shipping communities uphold racist aesthetic ideals, methodically erase people of color from their narratives and uphold white men as superior to all – and they continue to congratulate themselves for their own enlightenment while doing it.
Instead of glorifying shipping communities as empowering spaces for women, this is an opportunity to talk about what’s really lurking under that so-called subversive feminism.
After all the ugliness they’ve injected into Tumblr fan spaces, we can do better than letting them go down as martyrs. (Again.)
Just say you’re happy the purge happened and be done with it lmao
Imagine taking a fan objecting to the sanitization of fandom racism and twisting her words into advocating censorship.
Imagine thinking that shipping in any way compares to running hate blogs and twisting this whole trainwreck into being shippers’ faults, somehow
You’ll have to point out where op said shipping equals racism. She said racism is rampant in dominant shipping communities, which does not translate into all shippers being dedicated white supremacists. One has to wonder why you construe this as a personal attack on shippers.
Seriously tho, don’t use “but the racists are getting a pass!” while complaining that shipping communities are losing a safe and empowering place to share porn.
The most dominant shipping communities uphold racist aesthetic ideals, methodically erase people of color from their narratives and uphold white men as superior to all – and they continue to congratulate themselves for their own enlightenment while doing it.
Instead of glorifying shipping communities as empowering spaces for women, this is an opportunity to talk about what’s really lurking under that so-called subversive feminism.
After all the ugliness they’ve injected into Tumblr fan spaces, we can do better than letting them go down as martyrs. (Again.)
Just say you’re happy the purge happened and be done with it lmao
Seriously tho, don’t use “but the racists are getting a pass!” while complaining that shipping communities are losing a safe and empowering place to share porn.
The most dominant shipping communities uphold racist aesthetic ideals, methodically erase people of color from their narratives and uphold white men as superior to all – and they continue to congratulate themselves for their own enlightenment while doing it.
Instead of glorifying shipping communities as empowering spaces for women, this is an opportunity to talk about what’s really lurking under that so-called subversive feminism.
After all the ugliness they’ve injected into Tumblr fan spaces, we can do better than letting them go down as martyrs. (Again.)
When it’s been 3 years of constant fandom fights, hot takes, speculations, shipping nonsense, sexists and racists causing chaos, and you just want want IX to finish what TFA started so Star Wars can be fun again:
I want to be free of this trilogy
I just want it to not be a total trashfire so I can let it go and be at peace.
L.J.'s Obsessions 