lj-writes:

lj-writes:

For the life of me I can’t figure out this argument that Finn’s sacrificial charge at the cannon was hateful and Rose’s “not fighting what we hate” line worked as a coherent expression of theme. The arguments I’ve seen for Finn’s charge being fueled by hate are basically made up to make Rose’s line work and have weak bases in the actual canon scene. Here are some I’ve seen, with counterarguments:

Argument: The mission was pointless because Finn already knew no one was coming to save him and he was going to kill himself out of spite.

Counterargument: There’s no basis in the actual filmed scene to say the original reason for the ski speeder mission–earn time for allies to arrive–was invalidated. Confirmation that their signal was received but not responded to only came after Rose crashed into Finn

Argument: Finn said earlier at Canto Bight that it felt good to hurt the war profiteers with the falthier rampage, while Rose said no, it was worth it to set the falthiers free, which was clear foreshadowing that Finn was driven by hate and a desire to hurt while Rose was focused on love and freedom

Counterargument: Okay, to vent a little, that exchange was plain bad and rendered both Finn’s and Rose’s arcs absurd. It was a really weird and abrupt switcheroo from when Finn was the one who was temporarily awed by the beauty and glitz of Canto Bight and Rose was the one who wanted to put her fists through the town. Plus, given that Rose was the one who tased a wounded Finn into unconsciousness and paralysis because she was so angry at him, it’s kinda rich to see her play the saint without any kind of apology or amends.

To get to the main point, If this exchange was meant to be foreshadowing it was poorly done because the two situations were so different. On Crait Finn was trying to save his friends and preserve hope for the future, attempting to destroy a weapon for that end isn’t inherently hateful

Argument: Finn was bathed in red light, which in Star Wars means he was on the Dark Side of the Force

Counterargument: Effects like lighting can be a nice supplement to storytelling but can’t override the actual story. Like Jesus Christ you really don’t have arguments, do you?

Argument: Finn was mistaken about his sacrifice having any impact, Rose is a technological expert so she stopped him from sacrificing his life meaninglessly.

Counterargument: Actually Finn recognized the technology while Rose didn’t, he has way more reason to know how the First Order’s tech works, and TLJ showed him to be Rose’s peer in terms of technical knowledge and ingenuity.

Even if we accept this argument, though, at best it says that he was being ignorant or incompetent, not hateful.

Argument: Finn was angry during his charge, unlike Holdo and Paige who were more serene.

Counterargument: So being kinda mad that the fascist organization that kidnapped and enslaved you is now going to kill all your friends = being a hateful Dark Sider? Being angry at oppression makes you the moral equivalent of your oppressors now? And if Finn had been more calm and serene about sacrificing himself to save his friends, would the exact same act cease to be hateful?

Argument: Rose said Finn was being hateful, so it must be true.

Counterargument: I saw this circular reasoning from more than one person. Again, you know they don’t have any arguments when they work backward from the conclusion. I mean maybe it’s possible the scene was just poorly written and the movie was incoherent as hell?

@thehungryvortigaunt That’s what tipped me over into actually writing this post after stewing over my growing irritation at these arguments. This is just one of the ways in which TLJ is heavy-handedly and nonsensically Christian, and fandom is falling all over itself trying to validate its idea of Finn and Poe as scary and violent when in fact they are the ones who are frequently targeted by violence.

Yeah, the smugness of that reddit post did make me twitch a little. Other highlights included talking about how Finn taking pride in defeating Phasma is somehow a BAD thing, and pretending like there has never been a megacorporation/war-profiteer in SW canon before (hello, Trade Federation!), or totally ignoring the futility of the violence in Rose’s behavior. The film showed us an Asian woman promoting GIVING UP and letting DEUS EX WHITE MAN save the day on Not-Hoth…

@thehungryvortigaunt omg I stopped reading after the “hate-fueled” part, thanks for reading it so I don’t have to. So basically Finn is uppity and had to be taken down a notch? 😂 The ONLY way Rose’s arc is even vaguely palatable is if she came to realize she was wrong about Finn and was wrong to assault him, except there’s no admission of wrong and no change in her dismissive and insulting behavior toward him. Her spouting that coldest of takes and kissing Finn while all their friends are about to be killed in the background was the height of comedy lmao.

lj-writes:

For the life of me I can’t figure out this argument that Finn’s sacrificial charge at the cannon was hateful and Rose’s “not fighting what we hate” line worked as a coherent expression of theme. The arguments I’ve seen for Finn’s charge being fueled by hate are basically made up to make Rose’s line work and have weak bases in the actual canon scene. Here are some I’ve seen, with counterarguments:

Argument: The mission was pointless because Finn already knew no one was coming to save him and he was going to kill himself out of spite.

Counterargument: There’s no basis in the actual filmed scene to say the original reason for the ski speeder mission–earn time for allies to arrive–was invalidated. Confirmation that their signal was received but not responded to only came after Rose crashed into Finn

Argument: Finn said earlier at Canto Bight that it felt good to hurt the war profiteers with the falthier rampage, while Rose said no, it was worth it to set the falthiers free, which was clear foreshadowing that Finn was driven by hate and a desire to hurt while Rose was focused on love and freedom

Counterargument: Okay, to vent a little, that exchange was plain bad and rendered both Finn’s and Rose’s arcs absurd. It was a really weird and abrupt switcheroo from when Finn was the one who was temporarily awed by the beauty and glitz of Canto Bight and Rose was the one who wanted to put her fists through the town. Plus, given that Rose was the one who tased a wounded Finn into unconsciousness and paralysis because she was so angry at him, it’s kinda rich to see her play the saint without any kind of apology or amends.

To get to the main point, If this exchange was meant to be foreshadowing it was poorly done because the two situations were so different. On Crait Finn was trying to save his friends and preserve hope for the future, attempting to destroy a weapon for that end isn’t inherently hateful

Argument: Finn was bathed in red light, which in Star Wars means he was on the Dark Side of the Force

Counterargument: Effects like lighting can be a nice supplement to storytelling but can’t override the actual story. Like Jesus Christ you really don’t have arguments, do you?

Argument: Finn was mistaken about his sacrifice having any impact, Rose is a technological expert so she stopped him from sacrificing his life meaninglessly.

Counterargument: Actually Finn recognized the technology while Rose didn’t, he has way more reason to know how the First Order’s tech works, and TLJ showed him to be Rose’s peer in terms of technical knowledge and ingenuity.

Even if we accept this argument, though, at best it says that he was being ignorant or incompetent, not hateful.

Argument: Finn was angry during his charge, unlike Holdo and Paige who were more serene.

Counterargument: So being kinda mad that the fascist organization that kidnapped and enslaved you is now going to kill all your friends = being a hateful Dark Sider? Being angry at oppression makes you the moral equivalent of your oppressors now? And if Finn had been more calm and serene about sacrificing himself to save his friends, would the exact same act cease to be hateful?

Argument: Rose said Finn was being hateful, so it must be true.

Counterargument: I saw this circular reasoning from more than one person. Again, you know they don’t have any arguments when they work backward from the conclusion. I mean maybe it’s possible the scene was just poorly written and the movie was incoherent as hell?

@thehungryvortigaunt That’s what tipped me over into actually writing this post after stewing over my growing irritation at these arguments. This is just one of the ways in which TLJ is heavy-handedly and nonsensically Christian, and fandom is falling all over itself trying to validate its idea of Finn and Poe as scary and violent when in fact they are the ones who are frequently targeted by violence.

For the life of me I can’t figure out this argument that Finn’s sacrificial charge at the cannon was hateful and Rose’s “not fighting what we hate” line worked as a coherent expression of theme. The arguments I’ve seen for Finn’s charge being fueled by hate are basically made up to make Rose’s line work and have weak bases in the actual canon scene. Here are some I’ve seen, with counterarguments:

Argument: The mission was pointless because Finn already knew no one was coming to save him and he was going to kill himself out of spite.

Counterargument: There’s no basis in the actual filmed scene to say the original reason for the ski speeder mission–earn time for allies to arrive–was invalidated. Confirmation that their signal was received but not responded to only came after Rose crashed into Finn

Argument: Finn said earlier at Canto Bight that it felt good to hurt the war profiteers with the falthier rampage, while Rose said no, it was worth it to set the falthiers free, which was clear foreshadowing that Finn was driven by hate and a desire to hurt while Rose was focused on love and freedom

Counterargument: Okay, to vent a little, that exchange was plain bad and rendered both Finn’s and Rose’s arcs absurd. It was a really weird and abrupt switcheroo from when Finn was the one who was temporarily awed by the beauty and glitz of Canto Bight and Rose was the one who wanted to put her fists through the town. Plus, given that Rose was the one who tased a wounded Finn into unconsciousness and paralysis because she was so angry at him, it’s kinda rich to see her play the saint without any kind of apology or amends.

To get to the main point, If this exchange was meant to be foreshadowing it was poorly done because the two situations were so different. On Crait Finn was trying to save his friends and preserve hope for the future, attempting to destroy a weapon for that end isn’t inherently hateful

Argument: Finn was bathed in red light, which in Star Wars means he was on the Dark Side of the Force

Counterargument: Effects like lighting can be a nice supplement to storytelling but can’t override the actual story. Like Jesus Christ you really don’t have arguments, do you?

Argument: Finn was mistaken about his sacrifice having any impact, Rose is a technological expert so she stopped him from sacrificing his life meaninglessly.

Counterargument: Actually Finn recognized the technology while Rose didn’t, he has way more reason to know how the First Order’s tech works, and TLJ showed him to be Rose’s peer in terms of technical knowledge and ingenuity.

Even if we accept this argument, though, at best it says that he was being ignorant or incompetent, not hateful.

Argument: Finn was angry during his charge, unlike Holdo and Paige who were more serene.

Counterargument: So being kinda mad that the fascist organization that kidnapped and enslaved you is now going to kill all your friends = being a hateful Dark Sider? Being angry at oppression makes you the moral equivalent of your oppressors now? And if Finn had been more calm and serene about sacrificing himself to save his friends, would the exact same act cease to be hateful?

Argument: Rose said Finn was being hateful, so it must be true.

Counterargument: I saw this circular reasoning from more than one person. Again, you know they don’t have any arguments when they work backward from the conclusion. I mean maybe it’s possible the scene was just poorly written and the movie was incoherent as hell?

Calling myself out

lj-writes:

Some seem to believe that calling people out on racism is some kind of horrible character assassination or social death sentence, but in most cases it isn’t. It’s just a learning experience. Below is some of the racist shit I’ve done in the SW fandom alone, for instance. My point in compiling these is not to say racism is normal or okay, still less that I am some kind of hero for owning up to these. Rather, what I’m trying to say is that racism is very common and that’s why it’s important to face and address these biases so we can avoid hurting real people. Obviously, due to the subject matter, this post contains descriptions of racism and specifically antiblack racism.

Note: I’m not including links because I deleted some of these posts, others are hard to find due to changes in my tagging system, and I don’t believe there is much value in linking and propagating them anyway. But these happened, and I have no reason to make up instances of my own racism. I could have forgotten or sanitized some things, of course, so if your recollection or sources contradict mine let me know.

  • I said early in my time in fandom, mid-2016-ish, that I loved Finn and Rey’s friendship but also thought they had great sex appeal so I wanted them to be friends with benefits and co-parents. @diversehighfantasy​, in whose notes I put this, very politely pointed out that this tied into a stereotype that interracial couples weren’t truly romantic and their relationships were all about sex. I deleted the post and apologized to her, which she graciously accepted. This isn’t to say her politeness worked and that’s how people should approach callouts–in fact if anything her politeness didn’t work, because I felt angry and defensive in a way that had nothing to do with how she broached the issue and everything to do with the way I had built an identity around being an egalitarian and moral person. I worked through it, and got over it. I was fine. That incident really made me think, and I realized later on that I had been “missing” a fuckton of romantic subtext, nah, huge blatant neon billboard text, between Finn and Rey.
  • In my earliest Finn meta I had a very different and, I later realized, heavily distorted idea of Finn’s character. I thought for instance he was smiling in glee while he was shooting down Stormtroopers in the hangar scene. Later I realized on rewatching that scene to analyze it, not only was he not shooting at Stormtroopers, he was not smiling at all, just fiercely concentrating. This realization sickened me because I had to wonder how many otherwise well-meaning people who would swear they were not racist saw aggression in Black people that wasn’t there, and in situations with much higher stakes. Research confirms the existence of this bias (link), and that Black children as young as five are subjected to it (link).
  • I also wrote a short Finnpoe fic that I realize, in retrospect, was racist as hell. Based on the fact that Poe had shot Slip, I had Poe wake up from a nightmare where he had killed Finn instead and wrote about Finn comforting Poe about that trauma, saying Poe would have been right to kill him. Like… yaigh. I’m happy in retrospect that the fic didn’t attract much attention. If I had been called out I would have realized sooner what was wrong with it, but I did figure out from later fandom discussions that this was part of a common pattern with Finn’s own trauma being disregarded and him being enlisted to comfort Poe or Rey. My fic does seem to me like a really egregious example of this trope, though. I tried to watch out for this tendency when I wrote other fics later on, and I think they have much improved as a result.
  • I also reblogged and laughed about another blogger’s joke involving Adam punching John over unwanted hugging. This was ignorant and insensitive of me, obviously, and was another one of the instances that got instant pushback–deservedly so. Tbh the amount of violence Black people are regularly subjected to in places like the U.S. still boggles my mind, and as a nonblack and also otherwise very privileged person I will never comprehend the full reality of it. That doesn’t mean it was okay for me to ignore the implications of such a joke. And I did in fact feel uncomfortable and wondered if it was racist so I can’t plead ignorance, either–I just didn’t want to think too deeply about it and that was wrong of me.

That’s what I can think of at the moment. There were times I felt defensive and fragile, especially when called out by others, but again–that was my burden to work through, and it certainly wasn’t worth dismissing others’ valid points and hurts over. I was and remain perfectly fine.

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And then they blocked me I think I made them mad sdgsdgk

I mean, rich of them to accuse @diversehighfantasy​ of strong-arming me when she did nothing of the sort. I already said she was extremely polite, but it looks like @permian-tropos felt threatened by proxy?? or something??

I also love how admitting that I misread Finn’s facial expression at a specific point is putting him on a “gigantic appalling pedestal to worship.” I know he enjoyed fighting back against the FO, on Takodana for instance, I mean how dare he feel good about doing something to strike back against his lifelong oppressors eh?

So I’m reading parts of the TLJ novelization near the end, with the hyperspace ramming, the Phasma duel, and Kylo Ren regaining consciousness, and a few things are jumping out at me:

  • The details of the Finn-Phasma duel in the novel are all out of whack with the final filmed product. The broad outline is similar but Finn uses a different weapon, he uses different melee moves, the nature of the terrain is different, Rose tried to support Finn during the duel with blaster fire, Rose’s angle relative to Phasma is different (she sees Phasma’s eye through the cracked helmet), Phasma’s armor is not bulletproof but rather Rose misses her repeatedly, etc. The novelization was by necessity written from the script before the final filming, and these noticeable disparities tell me that the duel underwent significant changes between script and final product. This is probably not unusual for a combat scene which has a lot of moving parts and what looks cool on paper might not work out in filming at all.
  • “Turbolift” is a thing in the SW universe? The mention of Hux taking a turbolift to the throne room brought everything to a screeching halt for me, so to speak. Talk about being thrown out of immersion, for a moment when Hux feared he was trapped and would die in there I caught myself thinking he should have taken the Jefferies tubes.
  • There’s a PoV shift in the middle of the “Supreme Leader is dead” scene, with the viewpoint going from Hux to (seemingly) Kylo without warning. This is why I don’t generally read tie-in novels except as occasional references, they are almost always rushed and cursory products that I rarely find enjoyable on their own. A Stitch in Time, a Garak novel by actor Andrew Robinson himself, was the last tie-in novel I actually enjoyed as its own product. Then again ASIT was in the best tradition of fanfic, it was just a little more official than most.
  • Rey’s recollection of sparing Kylo Ren despite waking up first in the throne room gives me STRONG feelings of a Frodo-and-Gollum style foreshadowing. Much like Frodo toward Gollum she does not like the guy, knows he is evil, and believes that much evil could be prevented by striking him down. Yet she recognizes that events could work through him in ways she cannot foresee with her limited vision, and chooses to leave his fate to the will of the Force and not end his life herself. That was it; that was her reasoning and consideration. No pain or regret at what had happened, no longing for the time they had briefly joined forces, not even the kind of heartfelt pity Frodo had for Gollum. I’ve commented before about the possible similarities in Kylo’s and Gollum’s fates (link, link) and this passage only strengthened the link for me.

themandalorianwolf:

Who could Naomi Ackie be playing in EP-IX

My theories

Naomi Ackie is Lando’s daughter and she is joining the fight against the First Order. I would actually really enjoy this theory because we have not yet had a stable parent and child relationship yet in Star Wars movies. Plus it’d be sweet to know that Lando is the only person in all the Star Wars movies to actually have a healthy family life.

Naomi Ackie is a survivor of Luke’s Jedi temple that became one of the knights of Ren. I like this theory because we have never had a badass female dark side user in the movies before. And she’s a black Woman? Damn, if she uses Benny Boy as her boy toy? With Finnrey and this, I could survive off all the racist’s tears for years.

Naomi Ackie is playing Finn’s sister that was indoctrinated into the Stormtrooper program as a child like Finn. I doubt the FO would take one kid if they could take more and it is confirmed that the Stormtroopers are women as well. This is probably my favorite theory, just because it would help Finn find part of his family, give him more of an incentive to start a stormtrooper Rebellion, and fit with the themes of family members trying to save each other.

Naomi Ackie is playing Karé Kun. This one is a very high probability because Naomi Ackie looks a lot like Karé anyway. Plus with black squadron all but confirmed to be making their return it would make sense.

What I don’t want

I don’t want Naomi Ackie covered in stupid body pait or CGI like Lupita Nyong’o was, or used as canon fodder like Paige Tico in TLJ or Val in Solo.

Nothing makes me more frustrated to see actors of color used in cast announcements to make a movie look more diverse, only for them to bury them in ways they look unrecognizable or kill them off instantly.