Tag: finn

jewishcomeradebot:

There’s an interesting juxtaposition between Kylo and Finn in The Last Jedi. Because they both end up killing their abusers in TLJ and in doing so “claiming” their identities. 

But where Finn’s action sets him free of the First Order and the Dark Side when he proudly pronounce himself ‘rebel scum’ to Phasma, embracing that he is the flaw in their system and everything she hates, and is very proud of being just that Kylo goes in the opposite direction. After killing Snoke he does not turn his back on the First Order or the Dark Side despite being offered the chance to do so and having a direct ticket out of there.

Snoke may have influenced Kylo before then, just as Phasma had control over Finn’s life until very recently, but now they’re both gone and both men are free to choose as they wish.

And their respective choices are clear.

Finn embraces the rebels, freedom and the Light Side. Kylo chooses to stay with the First Order, choosing power and the oppression of the Dark Side instead.

This is the consistent and fundamental contrast between Finn and Kylo, and I think the two representative ways (simplified by necessity) that abuse victims respond to abuse: By breaking out of the dynamic and refusing to be a part of it anymore, or by perpetuating the destructive dynamic. You can kill the monster or become the monster. If you do the latter it doesn’t matter if your abuser is no longer around; he has a new lease on life through you.

I swear Chewie is a number #1 Finnrey shipper!!!!

themandalorianwolf:

lj-writes:

Han was competing for the #1 spot before his untimely passing 😔

Murder. Untimely murder.

I think BB-8 and Poe are new competition!

Is murder ever timely though? Well I guess if someone murders Kyle it would be long past time. (I vote for insurgent Stormtroopers to do the honors.)

Who will win the competition for the prestigious spot of… #1 Finnrey shipper in the universe?

The twitter user fangirljeanne said “Poe fails to listen to women and is still being touted as some progressive anti-masculine hero. […] While Oscar plays Poe as flirty with everyone, doesn’t change the fact that’s the character embodies traditional masculinity. Which makes his conflict with Holdo, a woman with purple hair who wears a crown and gown, emphasizing his distance from traditional femininity.”

pikrollo:

lj-writes:

pikrollo:

lj-writes:

pikrollo:

lj-writes:

lj-writes:

lj-writes:

What a hot take! I’d love to print it out and use it as toilet paper!

@dasakuryo It’s another reason why this tweet isn’t even worth picking apart. I guess fangirljeanne, like RJ, can’t see anything more than a macho misogynist stereotype in Poe.

@pikrollo She’s a reylo, isn’t she. Not even going to check and risk seeing awful shit, she’s using their exact talking points.

@popavocadocat Internalized misogyny is a terrible, terrible thing…

I don’t think so? I think she’s just a really weird kylo fan who’s decided that he was intentionally queer coded because he somehow doesn’t fit into male gender norms. An whenever other lgbt would tell her she was wrong she got really mad.

You gave me the courage to go to her Twitter and in full context her points make more sense. She’s not saying people hate poor woobie Kyle because he’s queer-coded or some shit, she makes it very clear that he is evil and villainous. Rather she’s talking about the way Kylo and the First Order in general, from the Empire onward, have been portrayed in othering ways, from being British-coded to swishing around in decadent robes, which she sees as queer coding. It’s the kind of nuance that’s been ruined by all the fascist woobification in the fandom.

That said, the othering/coding is not entirely one-sided. Obi-Wan, who wears swishy robes with the best of them and has a British accent, is as clearly a good guy as anyone in the franchise. Luke himself dons the swishy robes, if not the accent, in RotJ and thereafter. It’s true that these trappings are meant to invoke a mystical and not everyday feel, but they’re not necessarily associated with evil, either. The non-Sith non-Force user members of the Empire and First Order in their uniforms are as “aggressively heterosexual” as anyone could wish, if fascist-coded. And if fangirljeanne reads Nazi aesthetics as queer-coding then that’s a whole another can of worms. Leia in ANH was dressed as fancily as Holdo. Didn’t prevent her from being a heroine. While the queer-coding and othering of villains is an interesting and debatable point, this analysis doesn’t have anywhere near the depth it needs.

Also her take on Poe, especially the nonexistent flirty-with-everyone Poe, is still garbage and it’s not a good look to use Finn as an illustration of “aggressively heterosexual.” You wanna talk queer coding? Why not talk about Finn and Poe’s instant rapport, their Battle Couple moment during the battle of Takodana, their blatantly romantic reunion scene, the fact that Oscar Isaac outright said he played Poe romantically with Finn? Why is queer coding only ever clothing and accents, especially when those go more than one way (much like Finn)? Again, there is a whole lot of depth that’s missing here.

What she called Finn (a black man) aggressively hetro wow. you mean mister lets hold hands for safety. oh let me continue to wear this random man’s jacket then when we meet up hug like there’s no tomorrow. also, the cape point is mute. lando lives in capes all Jedi and sith wear swishy outfits it’s just the design aesthetic they have been given Maul, Yoda, Vader, Ashoka etc. the accents have to do with the directors John first auditioned with his British accent but they felt it didn’t work. her reasoning just feels like a mess to me.

To be fair she used the expression for Han first and it’s not unreasonable to see Finn as a successor of Han on some levels. I’m also about 90% sure she is a Black woman, and she also retweeted @stitchmediamix’s thread about fandom racism. But yeah, it’s not a good look and more to the point, it disregards a whole lot of ways where Finn is the farthest thing from being either aggressive or heterosexual. 

I CAN’T BELIEVE I FORGOT ABOUT LANDO. Lando, the most blatantly and flamboyantly queer-coded character in the OT and now confirmed by Word of God  to be pansexual? (Though the portrayal of his sexuality is fraught with all sorts of problems, he is as close to canonically queer as any on-screen character has gotten in SW.) Funny how he doesn’t figure in the analysis at all.

So somehow Kylo Ren and the predominantly white Empire/FO are queer-coded because some of them wear robes, but Finn and, in the case of the Resistance, not lily-white Rebels/Resistance are “aggressively heterosexual” because pants, American accents and also Lando has evidently slipped through the space-time continuum? The harder I look at this “analysis” the more it flops.

I believe she’s native, but yeah you can’t forget a fashion icon like Lando. I personally don’t feel Finn and Han are that alike Rey is much closer to Han in action and personality.

Like I said the robe thing just doesn’t work do to both Jedi and Sith wearing robes. I would get her argument more if only the Sith wore robes but they don’t. Like I just found these 2 interesting articles on the clothing both Sith and Jedi wear and what there based on. Also snokes robe is all on Rian he never had it in tfa

https://www.starwars.com/news/force-of-fashion-robes-of-the-jedi

https://www.starwars.com/news/force-of-fashion-dark-side-style-is-more-than-black-robes

I stand corrected. And don’t you know, when the Sith wear robes it’s femme and when the Jedi do it it’s manly as hell. (Gotta say, I laughed out loud when Liam Neeson in the top link called samurai a special and spiritual breed of people. Kinda hard to square that with their rapacious rule in Japan, not to mention what they did when they invaded Korea… they were just dudes with swords, man.) Much like when Kylo Ren throws classically toxic and entitled mantrums it’s queer-coded, but Finn can have an entire arc devoted to his trauma from abuse and he’s still aggressively heterosexual. Also Lando never existed and fascist aesthetics are somehow gay? I guess?

Like, what the fuck. It’s not so much that she’s wrong, but the erasures and biases that went into her being wrong in this precise way that irk me.

The twitter user fangirljeanne said “Poe fails to listen to women and is still being touted as some progressive anti-masculine hero. […] While Oscar plays Poe as flirty with everyone, doesn’t change the fact that’s the character embodies traditional masculinity. Which makes his conflict with Holdo, a woman with purple hair who wears a crown and gown, emphasizing his distance from traditional femininity.”

pikrollo:

lj-writes:

pikrollo:

lj-writes:

lj-writes:

lj-writes:

What a hot take! I’d love to print it out and use it as toilet paper!

@dasakuryo It’s another reason why this tweet isn’t even worth picking apart. I guess fangirljeanne, like RJ, can’t see anything more than a macho misogynist stereotype in Poe.

@pikrollo She’s a reylo, isn’t she. Not even going to check and risk seeing awful shit, she’s using their exact talking points.

@popavocadocat Internalized misogyny is a terrible, terrible thing…

I don’t think so? I think she’s just a really weird kylo fan who’s decided that he was intentionally queer coded because he somehow doesn’t fit into male gender norms. An whenever other lgbt would tell her she was wrong she got really mad.

You gave me the courage to go to her Twitter and in full context her points make more sense. She’s not saying people hate poor woobie Kyle because he’s queer-coded or some shit, she makes it very clear that he is evil and villainous. Rather she’s talking about the way Kylo and the First Order in general, from the Empire onward, have been portrayed in othering ways, from being British-coded to swishing around in decadent robes, which she sees as queer coding. It’s the kind of nuance that’s been ruined by all the fascist woobification in the fandom.

That said, the othering/coding is not entirely one-sided. Obi-Wan, who wears swishy robes with the best of them and has a British accent, is as clearly a good guy as anyone in the franchise. Luke himself dons the swishy robes, if not the accent, in RotJ and thereafter. It’s true that these trappings are meant to invoke a mystical and not everyday feel, but they’re not necessarily associated with evil, either. The non-Sith non-Force user members of the Empire and First Order in their uniforms are as “aggressively heterosexual” as anyone could wish, if fascist-coded. And if fangirljeanne reads Nazi aesthetics as queer-coding then that’s a whole another can of worms. Leia in ANH was dressed as fancily as Holdo. Didn’t prevent her from being a heroine. While the queer-coding and othering of villains is an interesting and debatable point, this analysis doesn’t have anywhere near the depth it needs.

Also her take on Poe, especially the nonexistent flirty-with-everyone Poe, is still garbage and it’s not a good look to use Finn as an illustration of “aggressively heterosexual.” You wanna talk queer coding? Why not talk about Finn and Poe’s instant rapport, their Battle Couple moment during the battle of Takodana, their blatantly romantic reunion scene, the fact that Oscar Isaac outright said he played Poe romantically with Finn? Why is queer coding only ever clothing and accents, especially when those go more than one way (much like Finn)? Again, there is a whole lot of depth that’s missing here.

What she called Finn (a black man) aggressively hetro wow. you mean mister lets hold hands for safety. oh let me continue to wear this random man’s jacket then when we meet up hug like there’s no tomorrow. also, the cape point is mute. lando lives in capes all Jedi and sith wear swishy outfits it’s just the design aesthetic they have been given Maul, Yoda, Vader, Ashoka etc. the accents have to do with the directors John first auditioned with his British accent but they felt it didn’t work. her reasoning just feels like a mess to me.

To be fair she used the expression for Han first and it’s not unreasonable to see Finn as a successor of Han on some levels. I’m also about 90% sure she is a Black woman, and she also retweeted @stitchmediamix’s thread about fandom racism. But yeah, it’s not a good look and more to the point, it disregards a whole lot of ways where Finn is the farthest thing from being either aggressive or heterosexual. 

I CAN’T BELIEVE I FORGOT ABOUT LANDO. Lando, the most blatantly and flamboyantly queer-coded character in the OT and now confirmed by Word of God  to be pansexual? (Though the portrayal of his sexuality is fraught with all sorts of problems, he is as close to canonically queer as any on-screen character has gotten in SW.) Funny how he doesn’t figure in the analysis at all.

So somehow Kylo Ren and the predominantly white Empire/FO are queer-coded because some of them wear robes, but Finn and, in the case of the Resistance, not lily-white Rebels/Resistance are “aggressively heterosexual” because pants, American accents and also Lando has evidently slipped through the space-time continuum? The harder I look at this “analysis” the more it flops.

The twitter user fangirljeanne said “Poe fails to listen to women and is still being touted as some progressive anti-masculine hero. […] While Oscar plays Poe as flirty with everyone, doesn’t change the fact that’s the character embodies traditional masculinity. Which makes his conflict with Holdo, a woman with purple hair who wears a crown and gown, emphasizing his distance from traditional femininity.”

pikrollo:

lj-writes:

lj-writes:

lj-writes:

What a hot take! I’d love to print it out and use it as toilet paper!

@dasakuryo It’s another reason why this tweet isn’t even worth picking apart. I guess fangirljeanne, like RJ, can’t see anything more than a macho misogynist stereotype in Poe.

@pikrollo She’s a reylo, isn’t she. Not even going to check and risk seeing awful shit, she’s using their exact talking points.

@popavocadocat Internalized misogyny is a terrible, terrible thing…

I don’t think so? I think she’s just a really weird kylo fan who’s decided that he was intentionally queer coded because he somehow doesn’t fit into male gender norms. An whenever other lgbt would tell her she was wrong she got really mad.

You gave me the courage to go to her Twitter and in full context her points make more sense. She’s not saying people hate poor woobie Kyle because he’s queer-coded or some shit, she makes it very clear that he is evil and villainous. Rather she’s talking about the way Kylo and the First Order in general, from the Empire onward, have been portrayed in othering ways, from being British-coded to swishing around in decadent robes, which she sees as queer coding. It’s the kind of nuance that’s been ruined by all the fascist woobification in the fandom.

That said, the othering/coding is not entirely one-sided. Obi-Wan, who wears swishy robes with the best of them and has a British accent, is as clearly a good guy as anyone in the franchise. Luke himself dons the swishy robes, if not the accent, in RotJ and thereafter. It’s true that these trappings are meant to invoke a mystical and not everyday feel, but they’re not necessarily associated with evil, either. The non-Sith non-Force user members of the Empire and First Order in their uniforms are as “aggressively heterosexual” as anyone could wish, if fascist-coded. And if fangirljeanne reads Nazi aesthetics as queer-coding then that’s a whole another can of worms. Leia in ANH was dressed as fancily as Holdo. Didn’t prevent her from being a heroine. While the queer-coding and othering of villains is an interesting and debatable point, this analysis doesn’t have anywhere near the depth it needs.

Also her take on Poe, especially the nonexistent flirty-with-everyone Poe, is still garbage and it’s not a good look to use Finn as an illustration of “aggressively heterosexual.” You wanna talk queer coding? Why not talk about Finn and Poe’s instant rapport, their Battle Couple moment during the battle of Takodana, their blatantly romantic reunion scene, the fact that Oscar Isaac outright said he played Poe romantically with Finn? Why is queer coding only ever clothing and accents, especially when those go more than one way (much like Finn)? Again, there is a whole lot of depth that’s missing here.

Do you think it’s rude to assume John/Finn will be sidelined again in the next movie like he was in TLJ? Someone said it’s weird that people are already writing off JJ Abrams and that we should wait and see?

ori-ebon:

lj-writes:

ori-ebon:

lj-writes:

I completely understand people’s need not to get their hopes up. As long as people aren’t derailing other people’s positive speculations about the movie I think everyone is entitled to their pessimism/caution. In general I hate it when people police others’ reactions. As long as things are tagged properly and people stay in their lanes, let people deal with their hopes, fears, and whatever other anticipations in peace.

Still, the fear is understandable at this point. JJ is the one who made Finn into a red herring for Rey in the first place and downplayed his competence to boost her up by comparison. It’s entirely possible that that was just the first stage of a what was to be a phenomenal arc for the character that got derailed when it was determined that fumbling, bumbling Rian Johnson would helm Ep VIII, but we’ll never know now. All we have to go on for certain is what JJ’s done with Finn so far, and it doesn’t inspire a lot of hope, at least not in me personally.

Yeah, JJ just looks so much better than RJ by comparison which… talk about low bars. I put more trust in John here: he has talked before about Finn being more of a growing hero than one who gets everything right from the start, and though a lot of his best qualities were artificially curtailed and downplayed in TFA they were still there. So I’m cautiously optimistic.

This may sound silly, but it’s hair of all things that’s giving me a sense that things may be different this time. John is the only cast member so far to have announced a change in appearance, and hair often has quite a lot of visual and story significance. This was thought out and planned ahead of time, since JJ would have had to let John know to grow his hair out through the spring and summer. It also had enough story meaning and prominence that John teased it well ahead of the first teaser, saying we would see what it was for when we saw the trailer. As I jokingly pointed out, a certain section of the fandom would have gone batshit if this had been for one of their white faves. Though a small detail, this points to more care and thought being put into the character, and excitement on John’s part if he’s discussing it already.

It also gives me hope that JJ has evidently been talking to Ava DuVernay and accepted her recommendation of Victoria Mahoney as second unit director. Obviously neither Ava nor Vic can influence Finn’s story in any final manner, but it’s a reminder that JJ respects Ava and is receptive to her views–if not specifically about Finn, at least about the importance of representation and diversity. That is my hope anyway.

All this is just me, of course, and I agree JJ deserves no passes at all for how he’s treated Finn. He could have done a growing hero without using Finn as bait or turning him into the butt of the joke in so many scenes. I hope he’ll be better than RJ but that is, again, a massively low bar.

What you’ve told me does sound like it could turn out okay after all, but all the same, I’m going in with the cynical outlook on this one. What made TLJ so tragic was that, as the middle film of the trilogy, that was the point where all of the main characters should have experienced crucial development in accordance with that stage of the overall narrative. The last movie is where things are supposed to come full circle and be wrapped up. But TLJ wasted all of the time it had to do that. Finn repeated his arc from the first movie, and Rey sped through her development and didn’t earn it. Poe’s character is in shambles after what Rian did to it, and Kylo doubled down on his assholery when he was poised to end the First Order and instead chose to take the reins and…..keep going in the same direction. There’s arguably just as much narrative ground to cover as there was at the end of TFA, if not more, only with half the time left to do it. I don’t see all that being accomplished within the span of one more movie, not effectively, at least.

And then there’s the fact that another bait-and-switch really can’t be ruled out. Cosmetic updates to Finn’s appearance may sound nice, but not as nice as trailer shots of him using the lightsaber, like the ones for the promo for TFA – and we saw that turned out. I really don’t trust anything now. At this point, I don’t even need Finn to be an actual jedi; it’s overrated anyway, and even if it wasn’t the writers have demonstrated they clearly don’t understand the original material they’re building off of. I just would like to see Finn be a badass with a lightsaber. That’s what they advertised, that’s what I want. That doesn’t seem to far out of the realm of possibility, but again, there was no groundwork laid in TLJ to build that up, so I don’t see it happening in Ep 9. Well, I guess the least they may be able to accomplish is to actually write Rose well this time.

I admire your patience and your ability to still be optimistic this late in the game, but I’m not getting burned a third time.

Do you think it’s rude to assume John/Finn will be sidelined again in the next movie like he was in TLJ? Someone said it’s weird that people are already writing off JJ Abrams and that we should wait and see?

ori-ebon:

lj-writes:

I completely understand people’s need not to get their hopes up. As long as people aren’t derailing other people’s positive speculations about the movie I think everyone is entitled to their pessimism/caution. In general I hate it when people police others’ reactions. As long as things are tagged properly and people stay in their lanes, let people deal with their hopes, fears, and whatever other anticipations in peace.

Still, the fear is understandable at this point. JJ is the one who made Finn into a red herring for Rey in the first place and downplayed his competence to boost her up by comparison. It’s entirely possible that that was just the first stage of a what was to be a phenomenal arc for the character that got derailed when it was determined that fumbling, bumbling Rian Johnson would helm Ep VIII, but we’ll never know now. All we have to go on for certain is what JJ’s done with Finn so far, and it doesn’t inspire a lot of hope, at least not in me personally.

Yeah, JJ just looks so much better than RJ by comparison which… talk about low bars. I put more trust in John here: he has talked before about Finn being more of a growing hero than one who gets everything right from the start, and though a lot of his best qualities were artificially curtailed and downplayed in TFA they were still there. So I’m cautiously optimistic.

This may sound silly, but it’s hair of all things that’s giving me a sense that things may be different this time. John is the only cast member so far to have announced a change in appearance, and hair often has quite a lot of visual and story significance. This was thought out and planned ahead of time, since JJ would have had to let John know to grow his hair out through the spring and summer. It also had enough story meaning and prominence that John teased it well ahead of the first teaser, saying we would see what it was for when we saw the trailer. As I jokingly pointed out, a certain section of the fandom would have gone batshit if this had been for one of their white faves. Though a small detail, this points to more care and thought being put into the character, and excitement on John’s part if he’s discussing it already.

It also gives me hope that JJ has evidently been talking to Ava DuVernay and accepted her recommendation of Victoria Mahoney as second unit director. Obviously neither Ava nor Vic can influence Finn’s story in any final manner, but it’s a reminder that JJ respects Ava and is receptive to her views–if not specifically about Finn, at least about the importance of representation and diversity. That is my hope anyway.

All this is just me, of course, and I agree JJ deserves no passes at all for how he’s treated Finn. He could have done a growing hero without using Finn as bait or turning him into the butt of the joke in so many scenes. I hope he’ll be better than RJ but that is, again, a massively low bar.

starwarsbelikethetitanic:

This is hands down one of my favorite scenes in the Force Awakens. One reason being it helps to validate the theory of a force sensitive Finn. He is able to hears the screams of the people in Hosnian system. Before he ever turns around to see the red beam in the sky.

Second and most important this scene is where I feel Finn truly shows us how much of a hero he is. Seeing the destruction of the Hosnian systems he knows the F.O. is behind it. Meaning there more than likely on there way to attack. So what does he decide to do?

He chooses to be selfless and go back to help Han, Chewie, and Rey. Something he has absolutely no obligation to do. Finn rightly deserve to leave behind all of this destruction and heartache. He deserves to be somewhere safe after all of the horror he has been subjected to in his life. He doesn’t owe anybody hes not with the rebellion there is nothing for him to gain by helping Rey, Han and Chewie. Yet he chooses to go back and protect a group of people he’s just met. He does this because he is a kind and compassionate man. A man who has every right to leave all this destruction behind yet still chooses to save others at the risk of his own life. Finn is a truly kind and amazing person and this scene helps cement that fact.