Alan Dean Foster – writer of TFA novelisation – on Finn and Rey

stormscavenger:

Did you have a favourite character to write in the new ‘Star Wars’ generation of characters?

Alan Dean Foster: There is always a favourite. Obi-Wan Kenobi is that one, but I really like Rey. I think she is a good central character, I think I may write her differently in some ways, but any writer would probably say that, otherwise you’d just have clones of the original writer. She is interesting and resourceful and hopefully her background will be developed in different ways and in more detail. I would have gone a different way with her in the recent film, but a lot of people would say that. 

I also like the character of Finn, he is very under developed and there is an enormous amount of potential there for his character. His character harks back to the people in the German army fighting who disagreed with what was going on, but I think there is a lot of internal conflict there that needs to be explored other than just kind of using him, as you will, occasional comic relief and he seems to be a filler right now. We don’t know what he is thinking or what is going on and he just exists to advance the plot at certain points. I think he is a much more interesting character than that.

Wow, even Alan disagrees with how they’ve been treated lately. Isn’t that something?

I was wondering when they were going to go for the ‘his backstory makes no sense’ angle. Right from the get go when people started trying to woobify Kyle, the big counterargument was Finn. Finn had it so much worse, yet was better in ever conceivable way. So naturally, now they try to explain it away by saying it’s bad writing.

lj-writes:

Yeah, the animosity toward Finn was never even subtle. He’s not good disabled representation because idk abused and mentally ill people should be violent and immoral I guess, He’s a perfect cinnamon roll and is not complex or interesting in any way. Alternately, he’s killed more people than Kylo and is a remorseless killer/terrorist. Also he’s just unrealistic because the only people who can find their conscience are the ones like Kylo, I guess, who were raised with real morals in a good family (despite having voluntarily turned his back on all of it).

Finn was always the #1 obstacle to woobifying Kylo and Kylostans know it. They’ve been tearing Finn down since day 1, and dismissing his entire story as unrealistic is just a tiny part of it. I guess calling real people, children who are victims of war crimes, incapable of conscience or independent thought is just collateral damage. What are real brown and black children worth, after all, compared to fictional white men?

image

@rejamrejam Thank you so much! I’m pretty sure negative numbers add up to a negative and a dozen vagina throne room metas contain less insight than one, though 😂

Re your addition to the First Order post, it’s really interesting that people are fine with Nazi imagery used in ways that ignore Jewish and Romani suffering, yet the moment Jewish creators and fans use that imagery to tell their own stories–suddenly that’s unacceptable and trivializing and the villains are just misunderstood babies uwu and the heroes must be actually evil, etc. etc. It also makes a whole lot more sense why JJ is coming back for Episode IX despite everything.

hanukkahfinn:

Well, Jewish identity and Jewish experience is only allowed to exist with goyim’s permission didn’t you know? And preferably with their translation because a good two millennia of Christian suppressionism has convinced at least the white goyim out there that they know our experiences and stories so much better than we do.

And I know the following is a bit garbled, I’ve been trying to put this into words all day and it’s a struggle because goyim are so damn good at double standards and sidestepping when it comes to Jewishness and Jewish identities.

I think there’s also an element of erasure of Jewish identity when it is used in a positive manner and for ourselves.

When we do something that the goyim approve of then we need to stop being Jewish or they can’t relate to us (e.g. Carrie Fisher who after her death constantly had her Jewishness erased to the point that people drew Catholic fanart of her >.<). And when we do something for us, like telling our own stories in a medium or genre that is “inappropriate” (as determined by goyim of course) then our Jewishness, with all that that entails including a history of being the target of genocide, must become unimportant or a problem.

Positive Jewish identity cannot exist in a Christian normative society. We either have to be erased or a problem. Or both. 

The erasure and dismissal of intent on JJ’s and Lawrence’s part is the kind where they’re either not Jewish (or their Jewishness is treated as irrelevant), or their Jewishness is a problem because clearly two Jewish creators cannot have intended an overt neo Nazi parallel with the First Order and for their members for be the equivalent of radicalized, neo Nazi extremists. To permit this (cultural) Christian goyim would have to allow Jewish identity and experiences to exist unmediated of their own will and understanding and they just can’t have that, can they?

I wonder if that’s part of the widespread fandom animosity toward Finn in addition to antiblackness, because his narrative in TFA has Jewish elements much like Princess Leia’s that are not mediated or controlled by a goyische perspective. He suffered kidnap, the erasure of his culture, and enslavement. If he was part of a mass abduction of children, as seems likely, that is a major element of genocide. So far he was set up for a Jewish (as well as African disapora–they’re not mutually exclusive, though distinct, because as I understand it a lot of European colonialist tactics were used on Jewish and Romani people first and then scaled up) victim narrative, although it’s already uncomfortable for goyim because it’s not confined to the specific trappings of the Holocaust. Rather it’s shit that European goyim have been doing to Jewish people for millennia, thus refusing to confine antisemitic destruction to a decade or so of “bad apples” that are supposedly aberrations and not Good Christian Folk.

Yet Finn is not saved by heroic white Christians. but rather fights back and escapes together with another prisoner. He may free others as well in the mold of the Moses narrative in Episode IX (DEW IT JJ YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO), the hinting of which was literally erased from TLJ by an aggressively Christian director.

The violence Finn used to liberate himself, however, is somehow subject to more criticism than Kylo Ren’s crimes. Finn is unironically called a terrorist (a misquote of John Boyega who said the First Order saw him as a terrorist), and even those who admit he was justified in his actions still think he should be more visibly conflicted about killing Stormtroopers. I suspect this last part is also related to the culturally Christian construct that feeling bad about one’s inherently sinful self is more righteous than actually doing right, as seen in the parable of the Pharisee and the tax collector.

I don’t need to tell you that if Finn does lead a Stormtrooper uprising a lot of us goyim are going to be wringing our hands for decades to come about the justifiability of a repressed and enslaved people rising up against their oppressors. No! we’ll cry. They should have waited and suffered until a redeemed Kylo Ren or someone else who fits the approved heroic mold rescued them! Because otherwise it’s terrible violence and disorder that makes the Stormtroopers the “real” terrorists, and also Stormtroopers who were kidnapped and brainwashed as children are worse criminals than Kylo Ren, etc. etc. I’m getting tired just thinking about it.

But yeah, I hope JJ flips a giant bird and does all that. He started something with TFA and I really hope he ends it with Episode IX. TLJ? I don’t know her.

solitary-antic:

Pretty sure if Kylo Ren had looked like this…

People wouldn’t say “oh plz protect my poor baby Ben, he’s suffering”, treat him like a 13 year old child even though he is 30, or ship him with Rey after he kidnapped her, tortured her, force pushed her into a tree, killed her father figure, almost killed her close friend, manipulated her, said that she was “nothing, except to him”, tried to convince her to abandon her friends, ordered her to be blown out of the sky, and then threatened to destroy her…because they touched hands…nope.

And if Finn had looked like this.

People would probably think he’s the new Luke Skywalker, shit, even I would. There would be no question that he is the male lead of the trilogy, he wouldn’t be shrunken or removed in posters, removed from trailers entirely, he would have more merchandise, the Finn Skywalker and Force Sensitive Finn theories would be through the roof, Finnrey would be the most popular ship, probably even canon by the end of the first movie.

lighthouse1138:

gaysabine:

still can’t stop thinking about that reply from the official star wars facebook account that finn needed to “learn how to care about others”

I mean, it’s not like he went on a suicide mission to save everyone in the Resistance, or spent two movies protecting Rey, or felt such overwelming empathy that he couldn’t shoot when ordered, right?

Anyway, here’s ten paragraphs about how Snoke’s throne is a giant vagina and Reylo is canon

You think Kathleen Kennedy is looking at the BO numbers for Black Panther and is going like “Damn, maybe we should’ve made Finn a Jedi”.

mikeymagee:

Most likely. And I’ll bet she’s looking at Thor Ragnorok’s Box Office returns and kicking herself for not putting Tessa Thompson in the Han Solo movie (not that it would have saved that film, but Tessa Thompson deserves those paychecks.)

Oh well. KK’s loss

kyberfox:

There are sound that, even years after the war has ended and peace been restored to the galaxy, will send Finn’s heart racing, make his stomach clench up and fear spark beneath his skin, making him want to do nothing more than escape in that moment. Just as there is a certain tone of voice, a cold precise diction, that will do the same.

He knows the First Order is gone, that the cannot harm him or anyone again. He know that Phasma is dead, he killed her, watched her fall into the flames of the destroyed ship. But knowing that does nothing when the panic digs its claws into him.