Tag: finn

fuckyeahrebelfinn:

nightesttwing:

fuckyeahrebelfinn:

So going by hints on social media it seems that Adam is in Jordan too. So we could be getting a return to Jakku for not just Finn and Rey, but for Kylo too.

Or course there might be something in that old Imperial base that the First Order wants. 

Or maybe Kylo is once more chasing Finn and Rey while they’re trying to find or save something or someone.

Or given that the late post-Palpatine Empire or early First Order depending on how you look at it was tied to a Dark Side sect called The Acolytes of the Void as well as the fact that that base was where the FO Stomtrooper program was born there might be secrets for both Finn and Rey to uncover and information that Kylo would want for himself and the Knights of Ren and any encounter between the three is entirely by chance. Though given Kylo’s hatred of both Finn and Rey that would be bound to end in violence.

~Mod Mara

“hatred of Finn and Rey” That’s… did you watch the movies? He most certainly doesn’t hate Rey and Finn is pretty much too indifferent for him to hate (unless he’s standing between him & Rey).

Yes I watched them, but clearly you didn’t. Or just blanked entirely on them.

You… kinda missed Kylo’s hate on for Finn in TFA. It had nothing to do with Rey, but accepting that means accepting that Finn is the central, male lead and you guys just can’t handle that.

And you missed that entire bit where Kylo tried to kill Rey at the end of TLJ after she rejects him, orders his troops to blow the Falcon out of the sky knowing she’s on board and he straight up promises to destroy her when confronting Luke.

But dream on. Take your ignorance, racism and misogyny elsewhere.

I mean Kylo stared for an uncomfortably long time at Finn on Jakku and intimidated him by unfreezing Poe’s blaster bolt, immediately came up with Finn’s designation number when Hux mentioned the escaped pilot, and destroyed a whole console at the mention of Finn all before he had ever heard of Rey, but sure he only cares about Finn when Rey is involved 😂

All right, “defend” was too strong a word. I’ll downgrade to “understand.” Though I would also say that Finn’s plan was downright immoral, as it’d deprive Resistance members of an escape pod while he wasn’t even in immediate danger. But yes, Rose was also trigger-happy there.

I mean I guess people can do a lot of violent and unjustifiable things in the heat of rage and grief. What bothers me about TLJ is that there is no acknowledgment that what Rose did was, at the very least, over the top and uncalled for.

The second part of your ask is an off-topic diversion. The conversation was about whether Rose was justified in using violence against Finn when he was not threatening her in any way and there was no indication he could not be talked out of his plan. I happen to disagree with you that his plan was immoral, but let me ask you a more fundamental question: Why does it matter? Do people who make an immoral plan deserve to be physically hurt and humiliated, especially when they can be stopped without such violence? Why did you change the topic to Finn’s immorality when the topic is about the immorality of the violence used against him?

I think you really need to examine why you’re so eager to justify and victim-blame here, and are unable to admit Rose was wrong without bringing up the irrelevant issue of Finn’s wisdom and morality.

themandalorianwolf:

lj-writes:

I fear something terrible has happened.

– Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope (1977)

Tragic Irony? Cause I love tragic irony, what if Kor Sella and Finn were related and the last family Finn had died without him even knowing. 

MAYBE THAT WAS WHY HE SENSED HER DEATH SO STRONGLY AND MAYBE LOSING A MEMBER OF HER FAMILY TO THE FO WAS WHY SHE DEDICATED HERSELF TO FIGHTING THE FO THREAT I AM GOING TO SOB OVER THIS FOR DAYS

Why Kylo Ren is a Christian hero and Finn is not

Along with the more visible reasons, one possible motivation for the insistence that Kylo Ren is the hero of the saga may be a Christian attitude
toward morality and evil. In areas where Christianity is wielded as a tool of cultural dominance, the Christian teaching of redemption and forgiveness has frequently been twisted into cheap grace–the idea that you can be forgiven for anything if you’re sorry enough, and what’s more, you don’t have to be held accountable or change in any meaningful way.

Another factor may be the
contrast between the Christian and Jewish concepts of evil that @jewishcomeradebot talked
about: Evil tends to be an otherworldly, demonic thing in Christianity but is an
all too human phenomenon in Judaism, and Ren’s character in TFA is an example of the latter (link, current link to full post).

Take these together and, for
large portions of a Christian/Christianized audience, someone who
actually feels sorry or conflicted can’t be truly evil because they are too
human and still redeemable. Since Kylo Ren is obviously human and feels conflict about his actions he is just a “sorry” away from a get out of jail free card and the hero slot. It doesn’t hurt that he’s an able-bodied white cis man, either.

In contrast, Finn in TFA is a terrible Christian hero, at least if we look through the lens of cheap grace and Christianity as cultural dominance. He isn’t shown feeling enough conflict for acts
like killing and lying. He isn’t torn up about his fundamentally
shameful and sinful nature like a good Christian redemptive hero
should be. When he does speak to Rey about the shame he unfairly felt from his
abuse it’s in the past tense, though of course the kind of treatment he has suffered will reverberate for a while yet.

As I discussed in a meta arguing Finn stands for the Balance in the Force (link), Finn does not beat himself up even for his more morally complex acts, either. He fights and kills Stormtroopers
in self-defense and the defense of others, but makes no soliloquies about
how he is a monster destined to kill. He makes things right after
lying to Rey by coming clean to her in a confession that obviously cost
him a great deal, and his conscience is clear. He doesn’t even pretend to be sorry
about misleading the Resistance so he can get to Rey, but he makes up for it by handing them a huge victory. He’s an actually
upright if complicated man who acts on his own moral code, and
he doesn’t feel the need for redemption or salvation.

Finn’s uncompromising dignity, his utter rightness with himself, may be
one of the few unforgivable sins in the kind of Christian framework I described.
Mass murder and genocide can be forgiven if you’re sorry enough, but
failing to suffer from your own sinful nature and not needing a lord and
savior? That’s a bridge too far in some people’s eyes. A
man like that is too free and independent, and cannot be controlled by shame or threats. The
antipathy for this kind of independence can interact in toxic ways with
racism and antiblackness as well, because Finn in Earth terms happens to
be from a group that society says are lesser and should be fundamentally ashamed of themselves. 

Of course there is a great deal of racism at play in the fact that large sections of fandom see a mass murderer and patricide as the anointed hero of the galaxy, while at the same time dismissing a conscientious and brave hero as either a violent monster or a minor character of no importance. In addition, however, there may be a cultural divide in that Kylo Ren comes in a more familiar mold to many members of the audience–that of the (white) redemptive hero who can get away with literally anything, for whom grace is so cheap as to be free. Finn in TFA, on the other hand, is something altogether different and, in the eyes of many, worse: Someone who is at peace with himself where he has no business being. Perhaps it is no surprise, though no less sad, that the sequel felt the need to violently punish and mock Finn for the “sin” of his pride.

I really like the idea that Finn is a Force void, possibly caused by trauma. It would be interesting because it is mostly seen in Dark Side characters, but not exclusively, and it would underline once again that both Finn and Kylo are who they *choose* to be. Voids are also interesting because while some of them have been Force users, all of them are immune to others using the Force on them. Which would explain why Kylo doesn’t ever try to use the Force on him, not even once.

jewishcomeradebot:

finn-cassian:

oooooh that is so interesting. Yeah I looked it up and it stated that Force Voids usually show up in people who have “natural leanings toward the dark side of the Force, who gravitated or were naturally drawn to it.” And you’re absolutely right that if Finn ends up being a Force Void then it really would underline the whole them of Choice and highlight their standings as foils to one another. 

If Finn is a Force Void it’d certainly lend credence as to why he wasn’t sought out (at least in canon as we know it) to be in the Knights since he’d just fade into the background when he doesn’t want to be noticed. It’d make me wonder what Kylo sensed though when he stopped and stared at Finn in the beginning of tfa

One thing I absolutely need to be in IX, an explanation for what the hell Kylo sensed when he stopped and stared at Finn. It is such a pivotal moment yet it has never once been addressed.

Because from the pov of the general audience, that is where Kylo’s obsession with Finn seems to begin. He sensed something, something happened in those seconds, and we damn well need to know what that something was.

And yes Finn being a Force void would explain how a strongly Force senstive person could exist in the First Order and neither Snoke nor Kylo ever sense him. They’d have to be really close to him and possibly there would also have to be something in Finn that broke down the barrier, like you know, witnessing a massacre. So Tuanul would be the first time either of them senses Finn.

Finn’s being a Force void would also be a neat outgrowth of his character background, where he constantly feared being noticed and hurt. It would make sense for his Force ability to develop along these lines, as a shield and protection in a hostile environment. Others have pointed out that no one seeing or helping Finn in TLJ when he was walking around in a leaking bacta suit was weird, as was his being able to pull Rose back to the bunker on Crait in one piece. It’s “these are not the droids you are looking for” all over again, except not on just one person he’s directly interacting with but every single onlooker that he might not even be aware of. Imagine how useful that would have been in the dangerous environment he grew up in, where he could blend in and not be seen when, say, Kylo Ren was in a foul mood breaking things up nearby. His being able to avoid Force detection and harm would be on the same continuum of protection.

top 5 finn parentage theories?

lesbiankiliel:

1. Prince Finn

this is my absolute favourite theory for a quantity of reasons, but especially because it would be the most wonderful Cinderella story, and Finn being a prince would be a huge thing, and it’d just be so cool

2. Mandalorian Finn

now I must admit I’m a bit of a dunce when it comes to Mandalorian culture but the meta posts I’ve seen from for example @themandalorianwolf are really great (and I mean this doesn’t technically exclude Prince Finn either, just alters it a bit)

these two are the ones I’ve actually given a lot of thought, and the rest are ones I like but haven’t got involved in any further

3. Finn was born on Naboo and his family has some kind of connections to the Naberrie family

4. Finn Calrissian

5. Finn Kenobi

(Finn Skywalker is also a good theory and I like it in AU’s a lot but in canon it always takes me to the “but why would the lightsaber call to Rey and not Finn then???” and it just wouldn’t be fair for either of them)

ask me my top5 anything

All of these and also… FINN APHRA-STARROS *cries*

opisrussianonmain:

everybodyloveshippos:

my dudes i was listening to the star wars soundtrack on the bus as one does, and started thinking….you know what a crazy awesome fight scene would be? A duel on a frozen lake (some parts are thinner ice and dangerous!!) !! so next movie how cool would that be. jedi rey and finn vs the knights of ren on a Frozen Lake

so, what you’re suggesting is a environmental flipped duel of mustafar?

Fury on Ice

I’ve never seen JJ say Finn is based on Moses. That would be different. I’ve Only seen prince of Egypt aus which seemed inappropriate.

opisrussianonmain:

themandalorianwolf:

lj-writes:

JJ didn’t say so, but the parallels are unmistakeable and blatant (link). I’m not in a place to judge whether a PoE Finn AU is appropriate, but if the ones doing it aren’t Jewish themselves I wish they wouldn’t. It would be so much better to carry forward the common themes in Finn’s and Moses’s stories to tell Finn’s own awesome story.

I personally don’t think SW characters should be written in AU’s about religious figures. That’s just asking for trouble.

But I don’t see anything wrong with people drawing Parallels and metaphors in their stories about Finn being the Moses of Star Wars. Jesus Parallels have been used by movies for decades. Anakin has been called space Jesus for years due to his conception.

If a Stormtrooper rebellion happens, Finn is metaphorically space Moses.

If you ask me then TFA is a Prince of Egypt AU, just done GFFA style.

As for the Stormtrooper rebellion being necessary to finalize that I have to disagree. For one thing it’s an “AU”, it is so to speak “based on Exodus” but it isn’t Exodus. And Finn isn’t Moses, he’s a Moses analogy.

Furthermore it depends on who the story decides to frame as Finn’s people. 

Remember Moses’ story?

Moses’ mother contrives to hide him so that he’ll survive Pharaoh’s edict to kill all male Israelite children and he ends up being found by the Pharaoh’s daughter. Now we don’t know how or when Finn ended up in the First Order, but given that he has no memory of his family and that the FO literally have baby pictures of him it’s a good bet her was tiny indeed, possibly an infant. Like Moses.

Then Moses (Finn) is raised in the house of Pharaoh (First Order) among Egyptians (Stormtroopers) but he’s not one of them and deep down knows he never will be.

And remember why Moses turns against the house of Pharaoh and have to flee in the first place? He watches as an Egyptian (Stormtrooper) strikes down an Israelite, one of his own people. He ends up killing the Egyptian, his crime is discovered and he has to flee into the desert.

You know, kinda like Finn reject the First Order with the massacre of Tuanul when the Stormtroopers slaughters the villagers. He refuses to participate and his “crime” – from an FO pov at least – is discovered and he has to flee and ends up in the desert. Where he meets this girl, like Moses met

Zipporah.

Furthermore when G-d wants Moses to be his chosen and free his people Moses at first refuses and argues with G-d about his choice. Again kinda like Finn tells Maz nope when she says that they all have to fight the First Order. (Which makes JJ’s stand in for G-d in this universe a Black woman, albeit one in alien makeup.)

So who is Finn’s people? The Stormtroopers? Or maybe its the Force worshipers? Or maybe the story will tell us its a bit of both, one does not preclude the other and when the Israelites left Egypt, several Egyptians went them.

And really it fits with many of the other characters too.

Rey is a mix of

Zipporah, Miriam and Aaron. Snoke is the original Pharaoh and Kylo Ren the one who starts as the heir to the throne, but eventually becomes Pharaoh himself and the main antagonist in the story. (This last but is why I always thought the narrative would end up doing away with Snoke one way or another and have Kylo take the reins of power fully.)

No it’s not a one to one translation anymore than Anakin was was a one to one translation of Jesus, but both stories are clearly inspired. Anakin’s story was a Messiah narrative as is so common among fantasy stories – scifi too – told by white Christians. Finn’s story on the other hand, and I still hold out hope all of the ST as envisioned by JJ – is based on Moses’ story.

Do I still want a Stormtrooper rebellion or for the story to do something with the Stormtroopers by and large apart from using them as cannon fodder? Yes, because it reframed them with the little we have of Finn’s background story, but I’ll would venture that a Stormtropper rebellion isn’t necessary for Finn to be the in-universe equivalent on Moses, nor Finn’s story be based on Moses. It already is and much depends on who the story decides to frame as Finn’s people.

This is where I find @lj-writes‘s theory about Finn possibly being from Jakku and at least being the child of a Force worshiping group interesting, it would add yet another layer as to why Finn reacted so strongly to the assault and massacre. Moral decency and the fact that he’s the male, heroic lead of the story is more than enough to warrant his reaction, but it does not therefore follow that there was never meant to be anything more to it than that.

Fandom’s main excuse for hating on Finn is basically “op literally killed the Egyptian for striking the Jewish slave but go off I guess,” with healthy doses of both sides are wrong uwu violence is bad uwu uwu. It’s funny how an enslaved soldier refusing to kill unarmed prisoners, escaping to freedom, and defending himself and others from imminent death raises more ire than the slavery and genocide he was running from and defending others from.

The First Order claims to have trained Finn from birth, according to the Visual Dictionary page that you excerpted, which leads me to wonder if he was taken very shortly after birth (like Moses) or actually born in captivity (also like Moses, who was born in slavery). I firmly believe the deleted scene where Finn lets the woman in Tuanul go (link) was meant to be a callback to Finn’s own kidnapping, at least in the sense of him wondering if this was how he was torn from his family. The woman seems to be holding a baby, from the way she clutches the bundle closer rather than drop it in her fright. It’s probably a deliberate choice to cast her as a Black woman, too.

Also does this mean the lightsaber is the burning bush? XD Finn and especially Rey are afraid of/refuse the lightsaber at first before they embrace its power. Y’know, the divine fire that burns without consuming its source…

Kylo Ren is like the Rameses character from the PoE adaptation, I think, minus the personal rapport with the male protagonist. Though he had no real relationship with Finn, there was something that passed between him and Finn at the village. Kylo also fixated on Finn and took the “betrayal” very personally in a way Snoke and even Hux were never shown to.

The PoE Rameses-Moses connection has a stronger parallel in Kylo Ren and Rey, in no small part because RJ could give a rat’s ass about Finn and his story, but it is a continuation and intensification of Moses’s story being split between Finn and Rey. Even in TFA, Kylo Ren wanted to destroy Finn but wanted Rey to join him. (In TLJ he evidently forgot Finn exists, much like RJ did.) They share an actual connection in TLJ where he further works her over, building rapport while isolating and manipulating her, all to convince her to join his side much as Rameses dreamed of ruling with Moses by his side. Kylo then becomes the successor to the original ruler, the one who had the perfect chance to end the destructive policies of his predecessor and was urged by Rey to do so, but ultimately refused and tried to kill her instead.

When Kylo was gazing up at Rey and she literally shut the door on their connection, it was a bit like that last moment between Rameses and Moses in PoE when Rameses (also on his knees, defeated and vulnerable, realizing that the link to his father has slipped between his fingers) screams Moses’s name in rage and loss while Moses looked across the divide to say a silent farewell. It’s not as wrenching in TLJ because the bond between Kylo and Rey was false on many levels and Rey feels so little for Kylo at this point, but the moment is still there where the bond is broken for good, or acknowledged as broken.

Coming back to Tuanul/the Church of the Force possibly being tied to Finn’s origins, it’s been pointed out that Finn may have awakened in the Force on Tuanul. My variation on that theory is that he is Force immune and Kylo Ren sensed this in the ruins of Tuanul (link), which Moth and @themandalorianwolf speculated as Finn being a wound in the Force like the Exile in KOTOR 2 (link). There’s also the fact that Jakku has all kinds of lore tied into it, as you pointed out re the Wadi Rum shooting location (link).

I mean if Finn is Force immune or otherwise Force sensitive as a result of trauma like the Exile, being in the middle of a massacre like one he may have experienced as a baby would be enough to activate those abilities. For me God tier is Finn being a descendant of Jedhan refugees who were Church of the Force members in the disapora. Mega Ultra God tier is Rose also being from the Jedhan diaspora. I know, I know, there are no confirmed links, but that’s a whole another tinfoil hat rant that is way off topic and will be in a separate post (link).