pinkrangerv:
kittenn1011:
pinkrangerv:
diversehighfantasy:
pinkrangerv:
diversehighfantasy:
“Kylo should be a hero the forgotten children can look up to” is honestly a vile thing to say when Finn exists as an actual hero.
His body language, actions, and the fact that this is fucking Star Wars indicate he has probably been brainwashed. So was Finn. Finn escaped. Some people can.
SOME PEOPLE CANNOT ESCAPE ABUSE, ESPECIALLY CHILDREN, AND THEY NEED TO SEE SOMEONE LIKE THEM EVENTUALLY GETTING OUT OR FREE.
Kylo becoming a hero is NOT going to negate Finn’s heroism. People do NOT just like Kylo because they’re racist against Finn, or they’re woobifying–Kylo’s storyline appeals to a set of people that Finn’s cannot, in a deep-set way. The kid who’s had a teacher call CPS and nothing happened, or the young adult who can’t get a job because they can’t leave the house or drive, or the teenager who doesn’t know how to fight back–they need to see their own story too.
You are missing the point.
Black children are systemically forgotten, systemically disadvantaged, and systemically abused. When people go on about how Kylo should be the hero to represent the forgotten children, they’re forgetting about Black children, they’re forgetting about Finn.
Finn was in an abusive situation too for his entire life. Why does him getting out somehow not count? Why would you think Kylo would have more impact on marginalized, abused kids? That makes no sense to me. ALL of your examples – CPS failure, can’t get a job, can’t fight back – apply to Black kids, and not a lot of people outside the Black community care. Nonblack kids, especially white kids, have many more resources and much more representation. It’s not like there are no damaged/sympathetic white characters out there.
I stand by it. Using marginalized, abused kids as a reason Kylo Ren needs to come out on top is vile. Not least of all because Finn’s story is much more uncommon and would have far more impact on marginalized kids when you consider that Black kids exist.
Could you try reading my post before shooting your mouth off? Like, at all? Because AS I SAID, Finn DOES represent SOME abuse survivors. Just not ALL. I don’t know why the fuck you think that means it ‘doesn’t count’ or ‘not a lot of people outside the Black community care about Black child abuse survivors’, because while I’m sure you have personal reasons to feel that way, Finn is the most celebrated character to come out of that movie, EVEN SURPASSING RAY WHO WAS THE LUKE ANALOGY.
Ben does not negate Finn. Finn does not negate Ben. Neither of them negate Ray. ALL THREE reach out to different survivors, and they are ALL important. I just don’t hold with shitting on one because, to be frank, he’s white.
There’s kind of a huge gaping hole in your argument here. As far as I can tell, you’re saying that redeeming Kylo, helping/having him escape, will represent kids in abusive situations who cannot escape, right? And those kids who cannot escape get to see a character who represents them escape?
You’ve failed to argue, however, why exactly Finn doesn’t represent exactly that. Because we see Finn stuck in an abusive situation that he hadn’t been able to escape as a child– how does he not represent children in an abusive situation who can’t escape? And Finn, even more, had to escape all on his own, with no outside help, which is exactly how kids in abusive situations who nobody is helping might see as someone like them getting themselves out??
On the other hand, we have Kylo– btw, you spelled both “Kylo” and “Rey” wrong– who people /are/ trying to save from his situation. His mother and father. How would abusive kids who feel nobody is helping them connect Kylo, with that, to themselves, above Finn?
Again, reading my post is a good thing.
Finn doesn’t work for the ones STILL STUCK because he is NOT still stuck. Because the movie STARTS with him not stuck. What’s onscreen MATTERS.
And i’m not saying Kylo because we don’t know that’s his name. We do know, because Star Wars has a history of doing it, that it may well NOT be his chosen name, and may be a slave name. So I’m going with the option that makes more sense, given that this is Reboot 2.0.
Edit: …Well, yes, I did spell Rey wrong. Apparently, I are typo. *facepalm*
The movie, in fact, does not start with him not being stuck. If I recall correctly, he is definitely a stuck Stormtrooper at the beginning and gets out shortly after. What was that about what happens onscreen mattering, hm? We saw Finn get out. We saw him suffering, we’ve been told he’s been suffering like that his whole damn life, and we see him take initiative and, at a great risk to him where others might’ve not seen a way out, took a risk to get out. Had to fight tooth and nail to physically escape. Thought his friend died in the attempt (Poe). And then had to continue fighting once he escaped as his abusers, the first order, tried to bring “him” back (they didn’t want him of course, specifically, that much, they wanted the plans which he accompanied, but the connection to him does exist), and then they stole his friend (Rey) and he went back to rescue her from his abusers. And after that, he was free. Then, and only then, was he free. We don’t see the years he spent under their thumb, but we did see him under their thumb, and we did see his entire struggle to escape through the entire movie. Finn is not “escaped” from the First Order until the end. If you can’t accept the end, then at least he’s not free until he, Rey, Han, and Chewie all reach the rebel outpost.
And if Finn being no longer stuck automatically means he can’t be connected to by (some) people who are “still stuck”, then guess what, any redemption for Kylo will do the same thing to his character, no? So, when Kylo “gets out” (which I don’t think he will because Kylo blatently doesn’t want to get out. Even if that was brainwashed into him to not want out, the fact remains he doesn’t want out), then the exact same argument could apply to him. That’s the logic flaw here.
Presuming Kylo ever gets out, any argument made to discount Finn as someone who specifically represents “people who cannot escape abuse” (as opposed to someone who represents people who’ve already escaped abuse) would automatically apply to him. Kylo, if redeemed, would not be any better representation than Finn– any people who can’t connect to Finn’s story (because, you’re right, not all survivors would see his story as theirs) specifically because he escapes would also lost their connection to Kylo if he too “escapes”– so then why “should” he have to be redeemed to be that representation that Finn already /is/? You won’t cover a greater ground for representation and represent “everyone” or even just “more people” because any reason to not connect to Finn that you’ve brought up also would apply to a redeemed Kylo.
Well, here’s a thought: Getting out looks dramatically different for everyone.
What you’re saying about Finn not escaping until the end is…really wrong. He gets physically out quickly–that’s the sort of story abuse survivors get a lot. Ben DOESN’T. Ben doesn’t get physically out AT ALL.
And you’re right! Right now, he DOESN’T want to get out! Because he’s a cult survivor, not a child soldier! They’re DIFFERENT. And getting out for Finn WAS getting out physically–his choices were his own after that. It will NOT be the same for Ben. He will have a lot of stuff going on that is in his head–he has to WANT to get out.
I’m not denying it’s not similar to Finn’s storyline. But it is a different one, at the end of the day.
And really, you KNOW representation matters. Why are you sitting here arguing Finn should be the only representation for two different kinds of abuse victims?
I don’t know if he came out and said “Ansel should have been Finn” as much as he said he read the script for TFA after the fact and the character of Finn brought Ansel Elgort to mind. Which is still shitty, but idk.
L.J.'s Obsessions 