Tag: finn

Is Finn immune to the Force?

lj-writes:

It still bothers me that Kylo Ren never used the Force against Finn. I mean, we’re talking about the guy who’s been shown doing this

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and this

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and this

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also this

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and so much more to his enemies and even people who just kind of annoyed him in the moment. The dude has oodles of Force power and is not at all shy about throwing it around. Other Force users are not immune, as shown with Rey who is even more powerful than he is.

So why, in his fight against Finn at the end of TFA, did Ren never even try to use the Force? Finn went running to an unconscious Rey after Ren knocked her out. Finn had even thrown his blaster aside, not that blasters work against Ren as Poe found out at the start of the movie. Why didn’t Ren throw Finn against a tree, too, or lift him into the air and choke him? That’s more like the guy’s usual MO.

Instead Ren not only dueled Finn but even resorted to punching him after disarming him, which had viewers commenting that his animosity against Finn seemed very raw and personal. It is true that Ren seems to have a personal beef against Finn (link), but again, the new Supreme Leader of the First Order has never been hesitant to use Force power against people regardless of how well he knew them or how strongly he felt about them. He revels in making people, from total strangers to hated rivals, helpless with his power. So why not Finn?

My hypothesis is that there’s another layer to Ren’s animosity against Finn beyond the usually-discussed ones of Finn defecting and making the opposite choices he did, and Ren’s hatred being the manifestation of his regrets. That’s a valid point and I have argued it myself (link), but what if there’s something more immediate and visceral going on?

Let’s go back to that moment in the village near the beginning of TFA, when Ren stared for a long moment at Finn before he turned away. He then unfreezes Poe’s blaster beam to strike a pole Finn was standing near, startling him and showering him with sparks.

Keep reading

Another thought came to me in relation to this theory. Didn’t John say that the massacre of Tuanul wasn’t enough for Finn to break his conditioning and bolt? What if this encounter with Ren was enough to do it? If that staring match happened as I theorize Finn would have had the additional kick of raw terror, both for Ren’s rage and what might be awakening in himself. If Finn felt Ren trying to read his surface emotions and also felt the effort fail, he would have known from Ren’s displeasure afterward that he was a goner if he stayed.

Come to think of it, if Finn is Force-immune (or a wound in the Force, as @themandalorianwolf theorizes) that would also explain how his many doubts flew entirely under the radar in an organization led by Force users. His inner turmoil would have been invisible to Force senses, and it wasn’t until Kylo Ren focused specifically on this particular Trooper that the truth came out.

johnnyclash87:

themandalorianwolf:

johnnyclash87:

So this is why Mandalorian Finn makes most sense to me and is my favorite Finn theory.

First it makes sense that the First Order would use Mandalorians for their Stormtroopers. Mandalorians are infamous as warriors throughout the Galaxy and even the predecessors of the Stormtroopers were cloned from a Mandalorian. They even went to war against the Jedi which ain’t exactly small potatoes. And they were a pain in the ass for the Empire too.

Secondly with Mandaloriansspread out across the Galaxy, it still keeps things open for Finn to be from another planet like Jehda. I mean both Luke and Liea are ethnically Naboo but grew up on different planets.

Also it opens the possibility that Finn is a descendant of the only Mandalorian Jedi, Tarre Viszla. Which means he could lead a Stormtrooper rebellion and unite the Mandalorians to join the Resistance. And we’ve already established how bad that would be for the First Order.

But you know what’s even more terrifying than a Mandalorian? A Force Sensitive Mandalorian. What’s even more terrifying than that? A Force Sensitive Mandalorian that was enslaved and trained to be an elite soldier and now wants nothing more than to protect the people he loves.

Love the Mandalorian Finn theories!

And while Tarre Viszla was the first Mandalorian to join the Jedi Order, there had been Jedi who deflected from the Jedi Order to join the Mandalorians against the Republic!

Oh! I did not know that! That is cool!

OP did you just casually combine my two favorite Finn parentage theories, Mandalorian Finn and Jedhan Finn?! Given how steeped Jedha is in Force lore, Mando Finn who is also a Jedhan would have a direct pipeline to both the military and Force sides of the story. *dies of excitement*

*Reanimates* And yes, the FO should fear the Mandos and Republic (or Republic-adjacent, who the hell knows at this point) uniting. The Mandalorians and Republic worlds would crush the FO if they can work past their historical animosity, and if there’s one thing that could make Mandos work as one with the Republic it would be rage at the discovery that slavers have been stealing their children.

diversehighfantasy:

disturbanceinthefrost:

So Finn is Force sensitive right? Right. But it still needs to be confirmed/revealed in 9. How?

I’ve been thinking it might be kinda cool if they did a callback to how Luke heard Obi Wan telling him to use the Force during the Death Star run but this time with Luke talking to Finn.

I’m just spit balling here but from the leaked pics we know that Finn, Poe and Chewie go somewhere in the Falcon.  There’s no way to know when in the movie those scenes are going to be but for the sake of this speculation I’m going to assume (based on nothing, lol) that they are close to the beginning.  So Finn, Poe and Chewie are in the Falcon on their way to whatever planet we see them on in the pics.  On their way there they fall under attack. Poe and Chewie fly the ship while Finn mans he gun since, as we saw in TFA, he’s an ace gunner. The Falcon takes a hit that knocks out the targeting thingy on his gun.  Finn fires sans targeting thing and misses, he starts to panic a bit as they are losing shields and won’t be able to take many more hits. Then all of a sudden Finn hears a calm voice: “breathe, just breathe….now use the Force Finn”.  He does and destroys the last target in one shot.  

Anyway…obviously this is complete speculation. I have no idea how FS Finn is going to be revealed in 9. It had just better happen early on and Finn better actually get to use the Force in 9.  

This would be amazing and I think Mark Hamill, being one of John/Finn’s biggest supporters, would be into it.

Via Vanity Fair,

In The Last Jedi, Boyega says, Finn’s reasonable facility with the saber is not further explicated. “But you never know,” he says. “I talk to Mark Hamill sometimes and he tells me stories about how he wasn’t told about the ‘Darth Vader is his father’ situation until he got on set.

I always felt like Mark was trying to reassure John that he could still be FS. They both seemed disappointed that they didn’t get to share screen time in TLJ. But since that’s done and can’t be changed (unless JJ retcons, which I would be equally cool with), it would make it even more powerful if Luke spoke to Finn through the Force in EpIX.

Never was there a worse thing than the people who hated the idea of Finn being the protagonist before TFA released being rewarded for it, and being able to omit him out of the Star Wars conversation entirely. Even if JJ, Kasdan, and even Rian say he’s up there with Rey and Kylo, it’s hard to argue against/not be gaslighted by antis when the films haven’t gone out of their way (so far) to treat him with the same nuance. =(

themandalorianwolf:

So it took so long to get back to you! Puppy troubles.

There’s a reason why movies like Black Panther, Wonder Woman, and Crazy Rich Asians have such a big fan base for their movies and characters. It’s because good representation matters. TFA has it, but at times it doesn’t have it either. Finn is a great character in TFA, and if you minus out the forced humor that even TFA has, Finn is probably the best new character out of the movie with the most clear motivation, backstory, and impact on the movie. 

But here’s the the problem, Finn is black. Black characters, just like black people, go under the microscope more than white characters. For example, many people like to bring up that Finn doesn’t react as much as someone would to fighting people they grew up with and would see as a type of family, or at least comrades, but on the other hand, no one ever comments that Kylo was part of the New Republic and is doing even worse than Finn, be cause Finn is acting in self defense, while Kylo is attacking. For example, Kylo’s torture of Poe takes on a much darker tone when people find out that both Kylo and Poe’s family were very close during and after the war, so Kylo isn’t just torturing a random soldier. Kylo is torturing a close family friend. Meanwhile, Finn’s whole goal is to not fight, and instead of people thinking Finn doesn’t want to fight because he would be actively killing his own old comrades, they write him off as a coward. 

The films don’t do much to show Finn’s inner pain compared to the novels, even in TFA, there are times were Finn is used for comedy when it’s almost unrealistic. Like after having his breakdown after the Jakku Village Slaughter, thinking Poe is dead, and almost dying of thirst in the desert, the movie takes a break to show Finn drinking with animals and getting shocked by BB, for the sake of comedy. Yes, Star Wars has always had comedy, but Disney takes it a bit too far at times, and does with the character that many movies love to use as a comedy scapegoat. The minority character. Though luckily, these moments are not that heavily featured in TFA, but if you would ask a Finn hater, then Finn was a walking episode of Johnny Bravo. 

My only other real complaint as far as how TFA treats Finn, is that instead of the match with Kylo being a duel effort between Finn and Rey, it’s turned into Finn getting thrown into a coma and Rey finishing the fight. And many white knights and white feminists stuck up for that choice, but I argue against it. Yes, Anakin and Luke did amazing feats when they were young and inexperienced, but when their first duel came with an actual trained dark side user, Luke lost a hand, and Anakin lost his freaking arm. It would have been more realistic, and fit in with the themes of teamwork of TFA, that after Finn gets slashed, Rey and Kylo are fighting, and while Rey is struggling to keep her footing while Kylo is overpowering Rey, Finn works up the strength to force pull the blaster Rey was using to him and shoot Kylo, injuring him further, and letting Rey come in for her face scarring winning blow.This works to show that TFA is about teamwork and these two protagonists, makes Kylo losing more believable, so you can bring him back as a formidable foe, which they really can’t in canon because Rey’s beat that ass twice with no training, and it doesn’t make it look like Finn being shown with a lightsaber was bait and switch. Something that many haters say it was, and many Finn fans as of now are afraid of.

I blame TLJ for a lot of Finn’s treatment as of now, but I’d be lying if I said that some of the blame doesn’t lie in TFA, and just by looking at how Solo treated Lando, I can’t help but think that Kasdan and Kennedy may have been behind Finn’s treatment of TFA. I’ve seen JJ’s other works, and one of his famous lines in his works is “If we don’t learn to live together, we are going to die alone.” Which was a metaphor for teamwork. Finn and Rey are co-protagonists, but there is a legitimate argument that at times Rey was boosted up at the cost of Finn. And when you’re in a fandom that consist of mostly white people, they’re going to run with that, like Rian Johnson did, and well the fandom did. I really hope JJ and Chris can make a better script for IX, than TFA was, because while I did enjoy TFA and thought it portrayed Finn great, there were the few times I felt that TFA did a disservice to Finn for the sake of comedy or to boost Rey up.

Finn’s Parentage Theories: Legends Edition

Clockwise from upper-middle-right.

Luke Skywalker and Lando Calrissian

Luke and Lando raise a child together, either adopted or through a surrogate. When Kylo destroys the temple, Luke and Lando are devastated when they think their child is killed in the fire. However, all children are brainwashed and recruited by the First Order.

Pros: Uses a fan-favorite ship from Legends, largely thanks to the Marvel Comics. Would give Luke and Lando both a temporary happy ending and a good reason to resign to depression for a while. The timeline would add up and it would give potentially sweet scenes for Finn, Lando, and Luke in Episode IX.

Cons: Would be really depressing. Unlikely for Disney to have an onscreen gay relationship not played for laughs or cheap diversity credit. Would cause some people to view it as Skywalker=naturally good, even though Finn wouldn’t be his biological son.

Nick Rostu

A Force-sensitive warrior from Haruun Kal, Nick Rostu was young at the end of the Clone Wars, but seemed to be about Luke’s age when they met. Regardless, in this universe, Knights of Ren took children while posing as Jedi Knights. Rostu, remembering his friends Mace and Depa, let them, believing their lies that it was for medical purposes. The adults were knocked out, and the Force-sensitive children were stolen to make an elite squad of stormtroopers.

Pros: Allows a Star Wars culture only seen in books to join the screens. Would allow Finn to have a big, loving community to return to as well. Nick’s fighting style is also unique, being a sniper trickster.

Cons: Would come out of nowhere for fans outside of the EU. The timeline wouldn’t add up well. A white director could easily default on stereotypes when designing a culture of jungle-dwellers.

Qu Rahn

Qu Rahn was a young survivor of Order 66, and lived into the early years of the New Republic. With a bit of time displacement, we could change his noble end to be at the hand of Snoke, and his defense of Finn is similar to his defense of Kyle Katarn.

Pros: Would fit with Finn being based off from Kyle Katarn. Adds a connection to one of the most popular EU stories. Would be a way for Finn to get his own lightsaber.

Cons: Could anger Dark Forces fans. Wouldn’t allow closure for Finn’s arc.

Giddean Danu

As one of the signers of the Delegation of 2000, and a founder of the Rebellion, perhaps the Senator of Kuat was imprisoned in a secret Imperial jail, along with his family. His son and his son’s wife had a child after the death of the Emperor, but the Imperial Remnant led by Rae Sloane kept them in captivity and took all Rebellion children to be First Order grunts.

Pros: Reference to the prequels. Allows a new surge of Resistance allies. Some resemblance between Christopher Kirby and John Boyega. Has ties to the Space-Prince Finn theory.

Cons: Would be a bit of a surprise. It’s unlikely Palpatine would take prisoners from the delegation instead of killing them.

Novoc Vevut

In Legends, Novoc adopted and raised the boy who would go on to marry Boba Fett’s grandfather. This version would be biological father to one of the stolen Mandalorian children that he and the new Mandalore Boba Fett have been seeking. Novoc would also have his adopted son Ghes Orade, who would act like a big brother for Finn.

Pros: Similarity to both Mandalorian Finn theory and LJ-writes-verse Sequel Trilogy. Provide a plot-based excuse to bring in Mandalorians and Boba Fett. Would be suitably epic without contradicting previous material.

Cons: Always have to deal with the “Boba should be dead” crowd. Morrison and Logan are both a bit too young to play old Boba (but makeup would fix that). Would raise the question of “where were these guys in the last two movies?”

Barney

One of Luke’s earliest Jedi apprentices, despite not having any real demonstrable Force powers, Barney is a humble, kind man from Marvel comics. He lived on Belderone, a world where AT-AT’s were built, making it a target for First Order raiders. After his home was raided, he has been working any job to pursue any lead as to where his son might be.

Pros: Barney is both sweet and determined, and would be a likable addition. Would also be poor enough to explain a lack of Galactic presence in previous films. Also provide a cute moment for Rey and Finn when she talks about living in an AT-AT, and Finn’s dad makes an instant connection.

Cons: Is named Barney, which is reminiscent of a certain purple dinosaur. Might not reasonably find Finn on his own power. Likable but potentially devoid of conflict once he reunites with his son.

Akanah Norand Goss Pell

Akanah was an ex of Luke’s, and a member of the Fallanassi, a religious organization that thought of the Force as a river known as the White Current, flowing and rippling. Akanah was absorbed into the entity Abeloth, aka Mother of Mortis, and died. However, what if when Abeloth was defeated, she and her avatars transferred to a different timeline rather than a different time period? Akanah, revived, and driven mad by the process, is unable to keep her newborn son in safety.

Pros: Bridge the old and new timelines. Provide a set-up for a potentially grand tenth movie. Add some mystery to an otherwise straightforward saga.

Cons: Somewhat depressing. Akanah would be a bit too old to have a child (but it is sci-fi). Would derail the main conflict of the sequel trilogy.

Katya M’buele

Katya was a friend of Han’s before the Battle of Yavin. In Legends, she died helping Luke fight demons in Marvel’s comics, but this version could live past the battle and become a Rebel Hero like Kes and Shara. She would be in the Resistance, as a slightly older woman, running smuggling and transport operations, always looking for her son that went missing at a young age.

Pros: Ties to the Resistance strengthened. Could appear as a young woman in a Solo sequel. Would not derail the conflict.

Cons: Underwhelming reveal. Ultimately too serendipitous to happen naturally (but there is the Force.) Not a very popular character.

Those are just some theories to rebut the idea that nobody’s thinking of some potential parentages for Finn! I might do a canon one, if this goes over well. My favorite is Luke/Lando, but I think Novoc would make for the best story. (Moth)

themandalorianwolf:

Everyone remember when Kylo Ren ordered the slaughter of a civilian village called Tuanul? Notice that not only men were in the village, but woman, eldery and children too?

In fact if you look up at the picture you can even see some of them crying.

Remember how Finn refused to fire on the unarmed civilians that Kylo Ren ordered the Stormtroopers to kill and had been so traumatized that he left the first Order and then fought against them while Kylo went on to lead them?

Remember how people still think Kylo is not a complete and Finn ins’t a hero? Remember how people excused this by saying war is war and didn’t know the difference between self defense and cold blooded murder?

Yeah, fuck those people.

There’s the Kylo apologists’ “enemy combatants.” Absolute fuckers.

themandalorianwolf:

Finn isn’t going anywhere. Get use to it, edgelords and dudebros

I hate that it’s been almost 3 years since TFA and people still call Finn a dumb janitor, refuse to believe he was one of the best Stormtroopers, or that he’s even the co-protagonist night of the sequel movies.

I don’t know how many times people have to say that every low ranking soldier in the FO did sanitations. Snoke wasn’t going on no space craigslist.

The Before the Awakening Novel details Finn’s days in the FO. Leading his squad, his training with Phasma, his knowledge of different melee and range weapons, his status as one of the best Troopers, and his first mission on a mining planet and his failure to shoot protestors, which in turn led to him being sent on the mission to Jakku to prove that he had what it took to do the dirty work.

Want to learn more about his past with the First Order, how he feels about fighting other Stormtroopers, what his time in the FO was like for him, his feelings during TFA and just stuff a 2 hour movie juggling multiple characters and subplots from several different other movies doesn’t have time to tell?

Read the damn EU material!

Why is it whenever it comes to Finn actually being an interesting and thought provoking character who’s competent, the claim has to be backed up by every single shred of canon and signed off by Yoda himself? Like it even matters considering even when backed up with LOADS of canon evidence, people say it doesn’t count, but only for Finn of course. When it’s to else, that’s whole different story. But screw it, I’ll talk about Finn.

Here’s some spark notes from the EU:

  • Finn hates killing Stormtroopers, but he knows they won’t hesitate to kill him due to their training, so he doesn’t hesitate either.
  • The First Order teaches their Troopers to suppress their feelings, so TFA is really the first time Finn is allowed to act freely.
  • Not all Stormtroopers are taken from their families. The First Order army is huge. Some Troopers joined willingly or were born into the FO.
  • Finn, and all other Stormtroopers, had multiple jobs in the First Order due to how they rotated jobs, one of which was Sanitation.
  • Finn had also been an executioner, but didn’t have to execute any one due to there being no prisoners or reason to.
  • Phasma and Hux both thought him Officer or Captain material if he could move past his need to help weaker troopers and morality.
  • Finn doesn’t talk about his experience in the First Order because beyond NO ONE EVER FUCKING ASKING HIM, Finn is deeply ashamed of his past with the First Order since he genuinely wanted to be a good soldier.

In the Beyond the Armor book, something John Boyega personally helped with in regards to Finn. It’s actually a very interesting in general about Troopers, but it also confirms Finn’s love for Rey and Poe’s friendship is what helped convince him to fight against the First Order.

Ever since Finn appeared in the TFA trailer, there has been a constant fight against him, even before the movie came out, people have been looking for reasons to hate him. They say he doesn’t belong, he’s useless, they ask for proof that he’s even slightly competent, proof that he’s black, proof that he loves Rey, blah blah.

It’s just ironic that the first black protagonist in Star Wars is always under a microscope and judged as either too competent in the books or not OP badass in the movies. I’m sorry I forgot how Luke, Anakin, and even Rey were also fish out of water looking for their place in the world.

All people need to know about Finn has been there the whole time, but people ignore it. I’ve seen people who obsess over Rey and Snoke’s origins, not even bother giving Finn’s background a look or a guess. Kylo stans will search every single EU material to try to find anything redeeming about his murder happy ass, while writing Finn off as a toxic throwaway character. And don’t even get me started on how the dank shippers and edgelords treat Finn.

Meanwhile Finn’s over here doing his best and proving that he’s the badass, kind hearted protagonist JJ Abrams and John Boyega busted their asses on. Hopefully in IX, JJ and Boyega can remind everyone what a damn great character Finn is.

themandalorianwolf:

Lucas Films: We need to show that anyone, even a nobody with no family can be a hero in this new trilogy

Finn

Lucas Films: we need to show that anyone can always change and make morally good choices even if the odds are against them

Finn

Lucas Film: We need to introduce some diversity into this new generation of Jedi

Finn

Lucas Films: We need to display the horrors of war and what the abuse can do to someone

Finn

Lucas Films: we need someone overcoming their abuser and becoming better

Finn

Lucas Films: we need need to show that even in the dark, a person can chose to be good for the sake of being good, who cares about his loved ones and will fight for them…we’ve got a heroine, now all we need is a hero of this story.

FInn

Finn is the hero you’re looking for