Finnrey played out albeit not on screen in the canon book Rebel Rising where Jyn for a boy named Hadder who was coded as black. So along with Lost Stars, that’s good enough for tie-in material but not for the big screen.

Forgot to mention: Jyn and Hadder canonically lost their
virginity to each other so yeah. Really not happy with LF’s bullshit
with Finnrey rn.

I think it’s the nature of movies as a visual and commercial medium and how racism and white male entitlement interact with it. The way Denzel Washington put it, as remembered by Virtuosity co-star Kelly Lynch: “[W]hite men bring women to movies, and they don’t want to watch a black man with their woman.” Comics and novels, though they are still heavily racist, are generally enjoyed alone. They’re not tied into dating rituals for most people, and though comics are a visual medium they are not as immediate as the big screen. Big franchises like SW can change the range of what’s possible, though, and I really hope Disney/LF will break this barrier.

Also while I’m glad there are more interracial relationships and other representation in the tie-ins, Jyn/Hadder doesn’t sound that great from the Wookieepedia description and it’s certainly not what I want Finnrey to be. Hadder gave up his chance to fly with the Rebellion so he could be with Jyn, and then the story had him blown up so she could feel bad. This brings me right back to the time I quit watching The 100 over its treatment of Wells (link). Fridging Black boys for white girls’ stories is not progressive, it’s just a tired reiteration of a racist cliché.

Reasoned debate vs blind panic

themandalorianwolf:

lj-writes:

I’m as Finnrey as they come. No other romantic pairing for either of them will work for me. Any short search of my blog will feature love of Finnrey and hatred of reylow, doomrey, finnlow, etc.

That said, I do think it’s fair, and probably necessary, to discuss the optics of Finnrey and why so much was changed in the movies.

I wrote a post a long time back asking how Finnrey fandom could be more welcoming and supportive, particularly to black fans who at that time were getting inundated with racist messages from reylows. I received a lot of good feedback. Well that post seems to be making the rounds again because a couple of black fans reached out and we’ve been conversing. Neither of these fans likes Finnrey. Both of them feel it follows the shopworn “black man lusts after white woman because white” trope and that Rey’s feelings really aren’t comparable. I understood in part, but as I’m not black I couldn’t understand completely. To me, it seemed obvious that both of them cared deeply for one another, and I really understand what “not comparable” meant.

Then one of these fans said to me that if the Finnrey dynamic was more like in the TFA novel they might have shipped it. That confused me more, since this was a novelization of the movie they said they did not like the Finnrey dynamic in. I was told to read it and I would understand better. I borrowed it and finally got a chance to read it.

They were right. I now understand.

As Finnrey fans, I do think there is a place for debate about why the novelization made it so much more explicit that Rey found Finn attractive and was falling in love with him. I think it is fair to ask why the clunky “my friend” was added when “We’ll see each other again, I believe that, Finn” or even just “We’ll see each other again” would have sufficed. The bedside scene in the novelization was much more that of a woman leaving her love to go off on an adventure. It was a subversion of the Odysseus trope and worked well. “My friend” seemed tacked on, 19 year olds don’t talk that way, and when I first heard it I did think it odd. Having now read the novelization, I think it’s more than odd, and it seems like something JJ was told to insert.

I’m writing all this to you because one of the takeaways from my original post to the fandom was that black fans said they often felt marginalized and that their concerns are not taken seriously in the fandom, particularly about race and racism. Obviously since the person was anon, who knows who it was, but that doomrey anon you just answered? That person said almost exactly what one of the black fans I recently spoke to said, that it was possible Rey will be made to realize her feelings for Finn were not love, and that Poe makes her “tingle” in a way that Finn didn’t. That the “my friend” business was an out LF gave itself to extricate itself from having to follow through with Finnrey, they can always say Rey only felt friendship for him.

I was told that several black fans left Finnrey fandom after TLJ because of Finn’s overall treatment and because it seemed to them that the Poe and Rey meeting was meant to be significant in more ways than just, they’re meeting finally. I respectfully disagreed, feeling that 10 seconds and smiles didn’t negate all that Finn had gone through with her. The response to that was that LF had decided to make Finn a joke in TLJ so why would it be so far fetched to use him as a starter boyfriend of sorts for Rey that she could measure her feelings for in comparison to Poe and realize she liked Poe “that way” more.

You said to that anon that doomrey would be shitty storytelling. I agree 100%. I also know Daisy herself has said she does not want doomrey at all. But Finn stumbling around leaking bacta was also shitty storytelling, so was him getting tased and the suicide run that wasn’t. Yet we got all of those and much more shit in TLJ.

I think there can be reasoned debate and discussion about LF’s racism making them not care that they derail the story – and doomrey would definitely be derailing it – just so long as they appease their racist fan base who don’t want to see a black man and a white woman romantically involved, and hysterical anons declaring that the first scene of IX will be of Poe zipping up and Rey rising from off screen wiping her mouth. Several black fans feel as that anon does, that Finn might be used by LF as Rey’s romance barometer and she decided that Finn was cool but Poe really makes her knickers wet. These are not “secret doomreys” these are black fans who are angry that Finn might be discarded because of racism. So yes, while doomrey would be an awful follow to the story being told, when has that stopped LF before, is their point. It’s a good one.

It’s fine if you don’t want that discourse on your blog. But I wanted to write because I’ve been trying to be more mindful of not dismissing ideas contrary to mine, particularly on regards to racism. That doomrey anon could have, and possibly was, been written by any of the black Finnrey and former Finnrey fans who expressed the same sentiment to me privately and I think that instead of dismissing it, the fears of some black fans should be recognized, even if you don’t agree with the substance.

This was really depressing to read, but honestly you have a point. As a black fan, if you told me after TFA what would happen to Finn in TLJ, I would’ve called you a freaking idiot, but look what happened.

Honestly it sounds petty, but if Doomrey or Reylow happens, and Finn just has another TLJ situation, I’m done with Star Wars.

Ever since Finn popped his head up in the TFA trailer, people have been trying to race him and his relevance since. I can’t even comment on YouTube how I was disappointed about Finn’s treatment or him not being confirmed as Force sensitive, without getting in a Internet debate about how Finn is in a supporting character, but the co-protagonist.

I might like TFA and even defend it, but there are still things that bother me and it. Like Finn, an elite soldier, getting put into a coma, and I did hate that “my friend” line. So if IX goes south, i’m just going to give up on the fandom and never watch the sequel movies again. Star Wars can still white if that’s what they want.

Listen……I am not trying to invalidate anyone’s fears. I get it, I do. But when y’all start talking about the “my friend” line you start sounding like the r/eylos and using their arguments to make a big deal of a line that’s pretty normal. For context there is a deleted scene in which Dr Kalonia informs Rey, “your friend will be fine.” The whole point of the “my friend” line is that it’s incredible meaningful and poignant for Rey to realize (bc of Kalonia) 1/2

lj-writes:

that she has a friend for the first time in her entire life. It
doesn’t negate any romantic feelings or “friendzone” Finn. It definitely
seems a little clunky because the Kalonia scene was taken out but
honestly I didn’t think anything of it until I saw people online
freaking out about it. I just think the “LF made him put the line in”
stuff is too borderline conspiracy theory.

In most situations, I’d say you’re right. But the thing is–racism is ridiculous. It makes ridiculous things happen. Finn’s abrupt downgrade in importance between TFA and TLJ doesn’t make any sense precisely because it’s racist in nature, and I don’t blame Black fans one bit for being gun-shy after all that literal nonsense not only in SW but throughout the history of media. We know racism has deeply affected SW from the outset, with Han being played by Harrison Ford instead of Glynn Turman for instance.

I don’t necessarily believe that everyone’s speculations are spot-on and factual, of course. But as material for fan speculation, if not a fun kind, they have a place along with other kinds of speculation.

And I get that. I really do. But I just wish we as Finn/Rey
shippers could be more confident. We’ve got a lot of stuff going for us,
you know? I think this kind of doom and gloom makes it easier for other
shippers to put us down.

I think this was the third part of this ask, or a follow-up. I agree, Finnrey is clearly the strongest canon ship and plenty of the GA have said it’s either Finnrey or nothing. I’m all for confidence, it’s just that after all the bullshit that’s been going on some people would like caution with their confidence.

It’s also a bit unfair to say Finnrey fans are making it easier for others to put us down. Finnrey gets shat on because of a long media history of racism that makes it easy to dismiss John as a romantic lead and even laugh at the idea. There’s also the fact that many Finnrey shippers are Black women and are targeted for that reason.

Reasoned debate vs blind panic

I’m as Finnrey as they come. No other romantic pairing for either of them will work for me. Any short search of my blog will feature love of Finnrey and hatred of reylow, doomrey, finnlow, etc.

That said, I do think it’s fair, and probably necessary, to discuss the optics of Finnrey and why so much was changed in the movies.

I wrote a post a long time back asking how Finnrey fandom could be more welcoming and supportive, particularly to black fans who at that time were getting inundated with racist messages from reylows. I received a lot of good feedback. Well that post seems to be making the rounds again because a couple of black fans reached out and we’ve been conversing. Neither of these fans likes Finnrey. Both of them feel it follows the shopworn “black man lusts after white woman because white” trope and that Rey’s feelings really aren’t comparable. I understood in part, but as I’m not black I couldn’t understand completely. To me, it seemed obvious that both of them cared deeply for one another, and I really understand what “not comparable” meant.

Then one of these fans said to me that if the Finnrey dynamic was more like in the TFA novel they might have shipped it. That confused me more, since this was a novelization of the movie they said they did not like the Finnrey dynamic in. I was told to read it and I would understand better. I borrowed it and finally got a chance to read it.

They were right. I now understand.

As Finnrey fans, I do think there is a place for debate about why the novelization made it so much more explicit that Rey found Finn attractive and was falling in love with him. I think it is fair to ask why the clunky “my friend” was added when “We’ll see each other again, I believe that, Finn” or even just “We’ll see each other again” would have sufficed. The bedside scene in the novelization was much more that of a woman leaving her love to go off on an adventure. It was a subversion of the Odysseus trope and worked well. “My friend” seemed tacked on, 19 year olds don’t talk that way, and when I first heard it I did think it odd. Having now read the novelization, I think it’s more than odd, and it seems like something JJ was told to insert.

I’m writing all this to you because one of the takeaways from my original post to the fandom was that black fans said they often felt marginalized and that their concerns are not taken seriously in the fandom, particularly about race and racism. Obviously since the person was anon, who knows who it was, but that doomrey anon you just answered? That person said almost exactly what one of the black fans I recently spoke to said, that it was possible Rey will be made to realize her feelings for Finn were not love, and that Poe makes her “tingle” in a way that Finn didn’t. That the “my friend” business was an out LF gave itself to extricate itself from having to follow through with Finnrey, they can always say Rey only felt friendship for him.

I was told that several black fans left Finnrey fandom after TLJ because of Finn’s overall treatment and because it seemed to them that the Poe and Rey meeting was meant to be significant in more ways than just, they’re meeting finally. I respectfully disagreed, feeling that 10 seconds and smiles didn’t negate all that Finn had gone through with her. The response to that was that LF had decided to make Finn a joke in TLJ so why would it be so far fetched to use him as a starter boyfriend of sorts for Rey that she could measure her feelings for in comparison to Poe and realize she liked Poe “that way” more.

You said to that anon that doomrey would be shitty storytelling. I agree 100%. I also know Daisy herself has said she does not want doomrey at all. But Finn stumbling around leaking bacta was also shitty storytelling, so was him getting tased and the suicide run that wasn’t. Yet we got all of those and much more shit in TLJ.

I think there can be reasoned debate and discussion about LF’s racism making them not care that they derail the story – and doomrey would definitely be derailing it – just so long as they appease their racist fan base who don’t want to see a black man and a white woman romantically involved, and hysterical anons declaring that the first scene of IX will be of Poe zipping up and Rey rising from off screen wiping her mouth. Several black fans feel as that anon does, that Finn might be used by LF as Rey’s romance barometer and she decided that Finn was cool but Poe really makes her knickers wet. These are not “secret doomreys” these are black fans who are angry that Finn might be discarded because of racism. So yes, while doomrey would be an awful follow to the story being told, when has that stopped LF before, is their point. It’s a good one.

It’s fine if you don’t want that discourse on your blog. But I wanted to write because I’ve been trying to be more mindful of not dismissing ideas contrary to mine, particularly on regards to racism. That doomrey anon could have, and possibly was, been written by any of the black Finnrey and former Finnrey fans who expressed the same sentiment to me privately and I think that instead of dismissing it, the fears of some black fans should be recognized, even if you don’t agree with the substance.