thelastjedicritical:

shannanigansandmisadventures

replied to your post:

“Finnrey would be racist over Finnrose if Finn and Rose had mutual…”

:

I don’t trust this anon… I never saw that many antis against finnrose prior to TLJ because a lot of people wanted to wait and see what happened. I could be wrong, but the people that were usually hating finnrose simply because of racism were the people that hated that poc were included in the films to begin with. Finnreys were pretty okay with the ship until the movie’s actual release.

I didn’t see this in our circles – which of course are just some antis, we have to keep that in mind – either. Rather many were excited by Rose, wrote metas about her that went FAR beyond her being anyone’s love interest, and were hoping for her and Rey to get along, so that there wouldn’t be some stupid love triangle with jealousy (thanks RJ for hinting at that DUH) the actual anti Finnrose attitude developped only after the movie was out. However I do know some Finnrey shippers I don’t have much contact with see Rey as the sole center that should get the guy over anyone else, so I won’t doubt that the anon came across such people. Also we have to remember many antis aren’t actual Finnrey shippers, so the question is again “who are antis?”

Yeah, I think it’s important not to get defensive and be “see no evil, hear no evil” like I’ve seen reylows get. People in our immediate circle may have been excited about Rose and the possibility of Finnrose, but we know a lot of antis are toxic and racist as hell. I’ve seen at least one such anon calling Rose a downgrade sent to a reylow, and it made me want to throw up. People can have bad experiences with antis even if we haven’t personally done or seen those things. We don’t get to call people liars just to uphold our pure self-image (not to mention antis are anything but pure and should define no one’s self-image lmao).

jewishcomeradebot:

kingofjakku:

Bonus from Finn:

@lj-writes sound like the Shakespeare version of TLJ is better than the official novel. 

Or the actual movie for that matter.

I love this and also love how you thought of me. That’s me, crazy Finnrey fangirl and proud of it!

Also, despite my loathing of the way Rose treated Finn I can’t help but swoon a little at “sweet Rose.” The Finnrey relationship was portrayed as so one-sided in TLJ and even TFA, I’d like to see Rey do some pining for once–and for Rose to be cherished and loved.

Changing literally anything about TLJ except the plot (as outlined by Wikipedia,) fix it. Dialogue. Gags. Costume designs. Heck, even motivations, as long as the result of those motivations is the same. Luke doesn’t have to be a coward as long as he still pulled a saber on his nephew and ran off to an island in uncharted space. (Though how he could be anything else and still do that, I’m not sure how.) You can even reinsert, cut, rearrange, or even create minor scenes. Could it be watchable?

Oh, I have so many. So many. Simply changing the framing would make the whole thing so much better.

– First of all, all the jokes have to be rewritten. No. Bad.

Other points, going by plotline:

A plot:

– Make it much clearer that Rey is thinking of Finn the whole time, is worried about the FO getting the Resistance and Finn, and believes Kylo Ren can turn because, well, Finn exists.

– Also make it clear that she’s thinking of Han and is haunted by the thought that Han might have died in vain. Turning Kylo will prove that Han was right.

– When Luke was in Ben’s room he wasn’t randomly poking around in his nephew’s mind, he was planning to wake him up and confront him because he had evidence of wrongdoing such as a student going missing. Ben’s darkness was so overwhelming, Luke thought an attack was imminent and drew his saber to defend himself. Ben woke up and thought Luke was trying to kill him and, more urgently, that he had to strike preemptively because he had been found out.

B plot:

– Leia is upset with Poe to the point of slapping him (yes, we can keep the slap) not because he’s being a reckless hotshot who needs to be Taught A Lesson but because he’s playing fast and loose with his own life even worse than before due to PTSD, and Leia is terrified to lose him since Kylo’s murder of Han. The slap is framed as a shocking moment of lapse in professionalism and decorum, like everything goes still at that moment and people look on aghast, and is an indefensible expression of Leia’s trauma. She apologizes later on in the movie.

– Make Holdo a New Republic Admiral who survived the destruction of Hosnia. Her story will be about the uneasy integration of the Republic and Resistance forces, with cultural clashes, authoritarianism, trauma, and mutual recrimination in the mix. The Republic forces lowkey blame the Resistance for provoking the First Order into destroying Hosnia, while the Resistance point out they were on the front lines of this fight. The Republic think the Resistance lacks military discipline, while the Resistance resist (heh) the strictures of the Republic military.

– Holdo and Leia, two old friends, are trying to hold this whole thing together but aren’t immune to the conflict and find themselves arguing.

– Finn’s status in the Resistance is a particular point of contention, and he gets a lot of unfair shit thrown his way. Holdo’s “A Stormtrooper?!” line comes earlier on, and really turns Poe against her while making her conflict with Leia worse.

– Make it clear, as in the novelization, that Rose was ordered to tase deserters. This order came from Holdo and is another sign of the culture clash in the Republic/Resistance integration.

– If this doesn’t count as altering the plot, have Finn actually locked up as a deserter and possibly an escaped prisoner. If you’re going to mix a desertion plot and a former Stormtrooper at least follow through with it.

– Finn’s imprisonment brings Poe’s trauma-fueled anger to a boiling point, and appeals to Holdo are useless. She actually suspects Finn was a spy all along who was going to rejoin the FO with intel. Poe and Holdo have a giant shouting match over this, with Leia trying to intercede. Though Leia is very sympathetic to Poe and angry with Holdo, she talks a fuming Poe down to try and keep peace on the ship.

– With Leia getting spaced and being in a coma, the Resistance personnel lose what leverage they have. When Holdo withholds the escape plan from Poe it’s just a symptom of the Resistance being locked out from the functioning of the ship. They grow increasingly fearful and suspicious of the Republic forces.

– As will happen when people are deprived of information and control, rumors and conspiracy theories circulate. The Republic remnants are in league with the FO. Actual Senators were on their side, why not the military? Holdo was the one who had Leia spaced. The whole Resistance are being delivered to the FO in a neat little package.

– Poe, all but fatalistic at this point, becomes extremely fearful of what might happen to Finn. He thinks the Republic soldiers might outright execute him. He gets flashbacks to his imprisonment by the FO.

– Rose is assigned to guard Finn in his cell and the conversation starts out antagonistic (”Come to gloat?”), with Finn angry at Rose and Rose alternately remorseful and defensive. They understand each other a little better and hit off on the plan here.

– Poe signs off on Finn and Rose’s plan because, as far as he’s concerned, they’re all Holdo’s prisoners now and at least this way he can get Finn out. They have an emotional conversation about how Finn saved Poe the last time and this way Poe can repay him in some measure. Can they kiss now or are we still constrained by Disney homophobia?

– Rose is okay with turning against Holdo because she’s now angry at having been ordered to tase Finn. She’s reevaluating some things in her life and this is the beginning of her character arc.

– Finn and Rose get off the Raddus without anyone noticing because Rose was the one assigned to guard him. Holdo is now convinced Finn is a spy who kidnapped Rose, but when questioned about it Poe plays dumb. He’s just a flyboy, what does he know? Holdo orders him confined to quarters.

– Poe is busted out by Connix and othe others because they found out
that Holdo is making them abandon ship. Thinking their worst fears have
come true and they’re being delivered to the FO, they stage a desperate
all-out takeover of the ship.

– An awakened Leia talks Poe
down in an emotional conversation where she admits she was afraid to
lose him after losing so much else, and Poe, in turn, confesses a part
of him was trying to go out honorably in battle to stop the pain.


Holdo says “I’m sorry” to Leia and Poe as they board the
transports. As she rams the Star Destroyer–and make it just normal
ramming, she can cleverly ram the flagship into another
object, such as other ships, like the actual Admiral Raddus did–she
says “This is for Hosnia.” Make it
clear she’s a victim of her trauma like Poe almost was.

C Plot:

– Do I really have to keep the dumbass parking violation? Let’s say Finn and Rose were recognized and it was a First Order spy who accused them of being terrorists or something.

– Let. Finn. And Rose. Dress. Up. They have to blend in on a casino planet, what could be more perfect? Let them see each other in a whole new light and flirt a little. Let them have an actual back-and-forth argument about the war profiteers on Canto Bight instead of Rose one-sidedly lecturing to Finn.

– Many others have pointed out that Finn should have actually reacted to and interacted with the abused children. Maybe he gives them courage, tells them he knows it’s hard but that they can leave with him and Rose if they want.

– This is @stopthatbluecat‘s idea, but let them work together to escape instead of the children being left behind.

– DJ takes the children on board, grumbling at first but increasingly bonding with them. This does much to endear him to Rose and Finn despite his still being an unsavory character. (Why are they trusting this random guy again? Can he have some sort of preexisting tie to the Resistance, or at least a grudge against the FO? Maybe he’s a war orphan himself?) They drop the kids off at a planet where people DJ knows can take care of them.

– Again, not my idea but when DJ backstabs Finn and Rose it’s because he wants to provide for the children he is now responsible for.

Final battle:

– When Rose rams into Finn it’s about her realizing she was wrong. He shouldn’t sacrifice himself for a cause, he should live to see Rey again or at least have a chance to. Get rid of the nonsensical “That’s how we win” line. When she kisses Finn, have him lean into the kiss and make it a more mutual thing.

– Finn and Rey can kiss too, but lest it makes Finn look like too much of a cad we can have just a heartfelt hug. Make it more like the novelization and have her fall into his arms, sobbing and laughing at the same time. Make her relief unmistakeable.

Tl; dr: Basically I did four things:

  1. Make Finn a major part of all 3 plots even when he’s not there.

  2. Let him kiss all the hot guys and girls just as God intended.

  3. Actually follow through on the plot of the prior movie.

  4. Let female characters have their own traumas, mistakes, and character development. Don’t make them exist just to teach male characters ffs.

damer/y use latine stereotypes in Poe (he is a “hot guy who likes to flirt”) + erase Finn’s relationship with Rey. Sorry for my english, I’m latina and still learning

lj-writes:

The flirty Latino stereotype of Poe can die a fiery death. There’s nothing about Poe to support such a portrayal and yet it’s incredibly common.

He’s only ever flirted with Finn, but that’s not saying anything. Y’all seen Rey when she first met Finn? Her thirst got me thirsty. Rose? She couldn’t handle herself either. The idea shouldn’t be “Poe is flirty” the idea should be “Finn turns everyone into thots”

@elaine-spades Exactly I mean can you blame them

leg-grestrade:

Reylos don’t actually care about Rose Tico

Because if they did, they’d be more concerned about the trauma she is still undergoing with the death of Paige.

Because if they did, they’d want better for her than an unrequited crush based off hero worship.

Because if they did, they’d be more concerned that Rose nearly lost her life, and that her condition is unclear and precarious given the limited resources of the Resistance.

Because if they did, their “meta” on her would consist of more than “She likes Finn :)”

Reylos, by definition, are racist. They are, by definition, antiblack. And now they are proving that they are, by definition, anti-Asian.

This was evident from long before the movie came out when the only attention they’d ever pay to Rose involved Finnrose. Where “antis” were talking about her as her own character including multiple pairings and @kyberfox and I were writing long, speculative metas about her background, all I ever saw from Reylos was about her as Finn’s prospective girlfriend. It’s disgustingly sexist as well as anti-Asian.