I’m over the moon that Finn got that iconic line – “may the Force be with you” – but no one seems to be asking the obvious question, where did he learn it?
It’s not something the First Order would have taught him that’s for sure.
Originally it was a Jedi greeting that the then Alliance adopted as several ranking members had had close ties with the Jedi before the rise of the Empire. The First Order want the Jedi wiped out and sees the Republic, the government formed by the Alliance after Endor, as an illegitimate power to also be destroyed.
While I could see it spreading via the Church of the Force who’s teachings are based on those of the Jedi, it doesn’t seem to have spread into the general populace in the 30 years since the Battle of Endor, as far as we can judge by the canon material available.
It doesn’t even seemed to be used by the Resistance personnel in general.
So again, where did he pick it up?
My theory is that Rose said it to Finn, and Finn is repeating it back to her in a jocular, slightly disbelieving way. We have never seen this phrase used jokingly before, because when it was said it was always used in earnest at a pivotal moment in the films. The fact that Finn is saying it in a laughing manner not only fits his status as a rebellious, authority-critical hero, but shows he may be unfamiliar with it or at least its full context.
A major reason I think this is part of a scene with Rose is because of the background. Here’s a still of Finn saying the line…
And here’s an early shot of Finn and Rose talking.
They feature the same door, as far as I can tell, from different angles. (The difference in lighting is probably due to poor rendering of the TV spot, since the daytime scene with Rey also comes out dark in the video uploaded to YouTube.)
If Rose said this line and Finn repeated it to her in a cynical way, it would be in line with their relationship as described to us in various articles and interviews–that he wants no part in the fight at first (and I don’t blame him one bit) and she helps him believe in it and himself.
It would also be a setup for Finn saying the line in earnest later on as part of his character development, having found his own conviction and his own meaning in his journey. It will go down as a moment in Star Wars history much like Han coming back to assist Luke at the Death Star or Jyn’s rendition of this iconic line.
Funny you bring up that Finn seems to be disbelieving even ironic here. I read it the same way and it made me wonder if it was Rose or Poe he’s saying it to, as popular thought appears to be or if its an authority figure.
To me he reads like he wants to tell someone to piss off but can’t, in that his voice is very polite, almost formal, but his little smirk and tilt of the head kinda reads like “oh go eff yourself”. Because that’s not Finn’s smile when he means it, it looks utterly fake.
Of course, without context its hard to know. But yes it makes me think he’s saying it to someone in authority where he can’t say exactly what he means, so he resorts to this.
In Resistance context that would mean Leia or Amilyn Holdo, my money is on the latter.
If true, this just may mark the first time MTFBWU was used as a “fuck u” 😂
Alternate theory: Finn learned the phrase from archival materials he studied as part of his training, like Rebellion radio chatter intercepted by the Empire or something. It’s a fond headcanon of mine that he got the “war hero” bit from studying the old battles and coming to his own, wholly unapproved, conclusions.
I’m over the moon that Finn got that iconic line – “may the Force be with you” – but no one seems to be asking the obvious question, where did he learn it?
It’s not something the First Order would have taught him that’s for sure.
Originally it was a Jedi greeting that the then Alliance adopted as several ranking members had had close ties with the Jedi before the rise of the Empire. The First Order want the Jedi wiped out and sees the Republic, the government formed by the Alliance after Endor, as an illegitimate power to also be destroyed.
While I could see it spreading via the Church of the Force who’s teachings are based on those of the Jedi, it doesn’t seem to have spread into the general populace in the 30 years since the Battle of Endor, as far as we can judge by the canon material available.
It doesn’t even seemed to be used by the Resistance personnel in general.
So again, where did he pick it up?
My theory is that Rose said it to Finn, and Finn is repeating it back to her in a jocular, slightly disbelieving way. We have never seen this phrase used jokingly before, because when it was said it was always used in earnest at a pivotal moment in the films. The fact that Finn is saying it in a laughing manner not only fits his status as a rebellious, authority-critical hero, but shows he may be unfamiliar with it or at least its full context.
A major reason I think this is part of a scene with Rose is because of the background. Here’s a still of Finn saying the line…
And here’s an early shot of Finn and Rose talking.
They feature the same door, as far as I can tell, from different angles. (The difference in lighting is probably due to poor rendering of the TV spot, since the daytime scene with Rey also comes out dark in the video uploaded to YouTube.)
If Rose said this line and Finn repeated it to her in a cynical way, it would be in line with their relationship as described to us in various articles and interviews–that he wants no part in the fight at first (and I don’t blame him one bit) and she helps him believe in it and himself.
It would also be a setup for Finn saying the line in earnest later on as part of his character development, having found his own conviction and his own meaning in his journey. It will go down as a moment in Star Wars history much like Han coming back to assist Luke at the Death Star or Jyn’s rendition of this iconic line.
Tbh I don’t care at this point what Rian does and doesn’t do at this point. December 15th, or 13th, or whenever it is this movie has premiere, will arrive and disappoint us all soon enough. Until then I really just want to have fun with this.
And quite frankly, given the amount of bullshit theories I’ve had to read about Kale in the last nearly two years – such as the one last night who once again steals popular ideas for Finn’s story and applies them to Kylo and only does this after they got popular for Finn – I don’t get why so many seem to have problems with theories that give even half a chance of Finn’s, Rose’s and Poe’s stories will be relevant and awesome. I don’t mean people writing their own worried posts, I get why and I share the feeling, but why people hop on other people’s positive posts with a “nah, not gonna happen”.
Yeah, maybe not. But let me dream until December.
Yeah I’ve talked about this issue before. I think it says more about Star Wars and some of its creators and fandom than the fans themselves, who badly want this awesome stuff to happen but are managing expectations to avoid heartbreak. Not saying you shouldn’t feel irritated, of course, you have every right to be. Also not saying you should be cool with people adding negativity, they kinda get me down too and I agree it’s a better idea for people to make their own posts for the negative parts of their reaction.
For myself, I totally get where these pessimistic Finn, Poe, and Rose stans are coming from bc I’m just… all but in despair over the way this franchise seems to be headed and the way this fandom already is outside the very small enclave of Finn stans here. I would already be gone if not for the cool theorizing by you and others, the sort of stuff that gets downvoted to hell on Reddit, and the thin threads of hope I still have that things might still turn out awesome.
I know some people have already deleted and left the fandom because of the trailers and the shit that spews from Rian’s mouth, and depending on how TLJ falls out I might also leave SW and concentrate on Trek and Pacific Rim. For me it really depends on how much there will be left for JJ to salvage.
@lj-writes and I got to talking the other day about Rose’s necklace and how it might tie into her past and her story in The Last Jedi.
Early on in our discussion the talk fell on Jedha, in part because Rogue One established it as a form of Space Asia and it would not be beyond Star Wars’ usual MO to have another Asian character – or rather two since we must include Paige in this too – and because of what we have of Rose’s background so far makes her seem like a refugee surviving at the fringes of the galaxy. And by extension her sister, Paige, too.
Considering that refugees are often discriminated against – in fact we see no justice for Jedha in extended canon at all – and the fact that the First Order, like the Empire before it, are persecuting and deliberately targeting religious minorities, any Jedhan living in diaspora would be a prime target.
A quick trip to Google by us both revealed several more interesting facts.
First, Kelly Marie is 28 so unless they age up Rose considerably she obviously didn’t survive the destruction of Jedha itself, but Veronica Ngo who plays Paige is 38! Apart from everything else, that’s some age gap between the sisters.
Of course, if Paige along with her family were direct survivors of Jedha, it would take years before they’d feel safe enough to start rebuilding and certainly not while the Galactic Civil War was still on. But if we use Kelly Marie’s own age as a measuring stick, Rose would have been born a few years after RotJ, a time where the galaxy might have felt safer and the Jedhan diaspora would have had hope for the future.
That was, of course, before tragedy struck again, and the First Order destroyed their second home just as the Empire had their world of origin.
While LJ and I were discussing this, we had a simultaneous discussion about “Why a crescent? Why would that specific symbol mean something to Rose?”
Early discussion brought up the Death Star itself, which looked like a crescent from the surface of Jedha when it was doing its destructive work.
(All the following pictures here are dug out or made by LJ. Thank you for doing that legwork)
Here’s the Death Star forming a crescent shape over Jedha as it blocked out the sun:
And here it is seen from the ground as it was firing the beam.
But that is a rather morbid imagery, why would Rose want to carry it? And why the lattice work on its surface?
Here LJ’s Google search brought up an interesting fact about Jedha.
There was a group on the moon that was called the Church of the Contained Crescent. They, at some point in the past, inhabited the catacombs that Saw Gererra uses as a HQ in the movie and when they did, they installed a lattice window.
This image from Rebels does not appear to be the latticed window itself, since it seems to be in a tunnel, but it forms an interesting visual parallel with Saw standing before the window at his base.
In the trailer (Bald Saw) the lattice window was intact, while in the movie it had been shattered, but you can still clearly see the remnants of the lattice work.
(A tragic bit that LJ also dug up, Saw died at that window.)
What’s more, the window must have taken some effort to put in because it is actually a short tunnel through a rock wall, which creates the visual effect that when you look at it from almost any angle – except head on – you see a crescent shape.
A crescent covered in lattice work.
This picture gives a particular good view of the remaining lattice work
Now compare with Rose’s necklace.
When you compare the edgings into Rose’s necklace, they look very suspiciously like what remains of the lattice in the window.
Now we know nothing about this group – The Church of the Contained Crescent – except that they existed, but LJ came up with the idea that they might have been a prophetic/end of days group who foresaw Jedha’s doom – perhaps marked by the crescent shape of the Death Star – and the reason they vacated the catacombs was to make room for Saw’s group. Or perhaps they were trying to prevent their own vision from coming true by vacating.
This remains unanswered as we know nothing about them except the name and the fact they installed that window.
One could object to this theory by pointing out the lack of “Jedhan sounding names” – though given that that is a fictional place then what would that indeed be – but then it wouldn’t be the first time someone was hidden under another name than their birth name for the sake of protection.
Padme Amidala hid in her time as queen of Naboo often under the alias Padme the Handmaiden to protect herself from enemies. Leia was raised under the name Organa, rather than under Skywalker or Amidala or Naberrie to shield her. Even Jyn Erso had numerous aliases in her life because her own name would make her an Imperial target. So why shouldn’t the Tico sisters live under a name not their own if their original names mark them in the eyes of the First Order and those who support them. And possibly even in the eyes of members of the Republic who wish to forget the past entirely.
Of course, if this is true it leads to some very interesting questions and thoughts.
For one thing, Rose possibly being a member of a “Force church” begs the question how she ties into the Force plot, further made relevant by the fact that Kelly Marie had chemistry readings with Mark Hamill indicating that they’ll share some crucial scenes together.
It would also mean an expansion of both Jedha’s role in canon – and maybe that, for once, LucasArts would deal in any kind of depth with one of its multiple instances of genocide – but also an expansion of the many other Force ideologies beyond Jedi that the new canon has introduced. We got the first – the Church of the Force – in TFA when the First Order massacred a village of worshipers on Jakku. We heard of the Guardians of the Whills in Rogue One where two of the last members played a prominent part.
Furthermore, it would deeply affect the interactions between her and Finn. Not only is Rose more likely to be a few years older than Finn, just like Kelly Marie is a few years older than John. They may even have aged the character up compared to the actor, making the age gap even bigger than most people expect.
The ages and personalities would affect her hero worship dynamic with Finn as well. She isn’t a star struck young girl, but a grown woman, “a very practical person” according to actor Kelly Marie Tran’s recent interview with Entertainment Weekly with a very tragic, hardscrabble past. She might see in Finn as much of justice as her people are ever likely to see in the galaxy. After all, the actions of Bodhi, Chirrut and Baze seem to have been as much justice as Jedha ever got, whether under the Empire or the New Republic.
Jedha has always looked to its heroes because many were willing to exploit their resources and culture but few were willing to fight for them. Rose may see in Finn such a hero, and in the process will become another such hero. Whether she will be a Jedhan hero is a matter of speculation and theory at this point, but the crescent necklace hints tantalizingly at that possibility.
Awesome, you posted this! Thanks for putting the ideas and information together. I would love it so much if the story of Jedha were extended in the main movies and the spiritual paths surrounding the Force got more examination. And if Rose were to be a Jedhan hero for a new generation in the footsteps of Bodhi, Chirrut, and Baze… *high-pitched inaudible squeal*
I know people have been worried about no sign of Rose in Act III of TLJ and I’m not saying not to, but you know who we haven’t had any sight of in Act III as well? Luke.
And we know that Kelly Marie and Mark did a chemistry reading, suggesting that they’ll share screen time and important scenes together.
So maybe we have seen neither in Act III because they’re together and off doing… well, some Force related stuff almost undoubtedly, given that Luke is involved.
I like this idea! Given the most recent Rose meta we’ve been working on, we may have some clues about their destination…
“Spoilers” for meta incoming later. While I agree that Jedha might be a possibility I think Crait itself is too.
My thoughts keep going back to the fact that Crait is covered in red crystals and that Kyber turns blood red when corrupted by the Dark Side (and then turns bright white if purified). Crait might be more important Force-wise than we realize right now
Rian may have left a possible return to Jedha as part of that “mess” he mentioned that the director of Episode IX would have to deal with.
In fact. Crait had mines going in Imperial era, just the way Kyber was mined on Jedha, there might have been a significant Jedhan diaspora of miners that had goen off world, post-ANH.
Hmmm, more thoughts.
Ooh, I like that! The official info is that the white stuff is salt, but who knows if that’s uniformly true. Also the underlying red rock base is unexplained, so is it some kind of red salt rock–or something else? The Storms of Crait illustrator Mike Mayhew says of Crait in an interview that “under the surface is this strange, alien red rock,” so I’m guessing it’s not salt. Also appearing in the book is a mine with droid workers, presumably mining the red rock.
Also when Kyle is searching the tunnels (mines?) in Crait with Troopers, could he be searching for Luke & Rose–and maybe the thing they’re searching for?
I wasn’t so much thinking of the white salt on the surface when I said purified, though you may indeed be correct, I was thinking of these little guys:
Purification would take some sort of deliberate intent and who knows, maybe these little critters are intelligent?
And when Rian was asked about the nature of these foxes he answered:
Okay, granted, that covers a lot of things. But still, it’s interesting.
The red rock has more than once been described as mineral and I’m fairly sure we see at least one of the mines in the trailer, where it looks distinctly crystal-like.
Re: Kylo and his search.
I really had been wondering what the hell is happening here.
It really does look like it’s Crait, so it must almost certainly be Act III but I kept wondering what he was doing on the ground and why. (Please note that he’s still with the FO at this late point.)
But yes, he could definitely be searching for Luke and Rose.
This line of theory really leads to all sorts of very interesting possibilities, doesn’t it?
That is a really interesting idea. I remember wondering what the hell kind of animals had crystals in their fur. (Is this theory the origin of your current url kyberfox?) And we know kyber crystals are at least partly organic.
If Rose, Luke, and Kyle are on–or in–the ground, I wonder if the battle on the ground and in the air have the objective to protect or attack them. Otoh since Crait is the new Resistance base after the evacuation from D’Qar, maybe this is an attack by the FO on the base which the Resistance is defending against? Idk.
I know people have been worried about no sign of Rose in Act III of TLJ and I’m not saying not to, but you know who we haven’t had any sight of in Act III as well? Luke.
And we know that Kelly Marie and Mark did a chemistry reading, suggesting that they’ll share screen time and important scenes together.
So maybe we have seen neither in Act III because they’re together and off doing… well, some Force related stuff almost undoubtedly, given that Luke is involved.
I like this idea! Given the most recent Rose meta we’ve been working on, we may have some clues about their destination…
“Spoilers” for meta incoming later. While I agree that Jedha might be a possibility I think Crait itself is too.
My thoughts keep going back to the fact that Crait is covered in red crystals and that Kyber turns blood red when corrupted by the Dark Side (and then turns bright white if purified). Crait might be more important Force-wise than we realize right now
Rian may have left a possible return to Jedha as part of that “mess” he mentioned that the director of Episode IX would have to deal with.
In fact. Crait had mines going in Imperial era, just the way Kyber was mined on Jedha, there might have been a significant Jedhan diaspora of miners that had goen off world, post-ANH.
Hmmm, more thoughts.
Ooh, I like that! The official info is that the white stuff is salt, but who knows if that’s uniformly true. Also the underlying red rock base is unexplained, so is it some kind of red salt rock–or something else? The Storms of Crait illustrator Mike Mayhew says of Crait in an interview that “under the surface is this strange, alien red rock,” so I’m guessing it’s not salt. Also appearing in the book is a mine with droid workers, presumably mining the red rock.
Also when Kyle is searching the tunnels (mines?) in Crait with Troopers, could he be searching for Luke & Rose–and maybe the thing they’re searching for?
I know people have been worried about no sign of Rose in Act III of TLJ and I’m not saying not to, but you know who we haven’t had any sight of in Act III as well? Luke.
And we know that Kelly Marie and Mark did a chemistry reading, suggesting that they’ll share screen time and important scenes together.
So maybe we have seen neither in Act III because they’re together and off doing… well, some Force related stuff almost undoubtedly, given that Luke is involved.
I like this idea! Given the most recent Rose meta we’ve been working on, we may have some clues about their destination…
yall: uwu he can change. he needs a redemption arc!
white boy: *kills thousands or millions of people after becoming a villain*
yall: its because they’re family didn’t love~ them enough~~ the hero’s really to blame here.
yall: the woman will redeem him though!
I hate this song, but y’all keep playing it.
Is this about Kylo Ren? Or Loki? That guy from Shadown Hunter? Or
Whatishisnameagain from Fear The Walking Dead?
I don’t know. Could be any or either of them, or maybe someone entirely sixth. Because this s a fandom stable, so it doesn’t really matter who.
It’s all of them!
All of them?! A violent, abusive, murdering, backstabbing, torturing, racist turd with a horde of fanwankers behind him sighing “look at that sweet puppy who did nothing wrong in his life uwu?”
I’m tempted to get a Twitter account just to fistfight the Korean reylos who parrot the usual poorly made arguments about how Kilo and Rey are yin and yang, tossing in the culturally specific sexual insinuation of the term to boot. No bitch, you do NOT distort our culture for this shitty white ship fight me at the Shinchon graffiti tunnel I will destroy you
Believe it or not, just because something is a norm in a different country doesn’t mean it’s above reproach! Despite different histories! And different languages! And different oppressed groups – especially since no one said anything about European racism being exactly the same as American racism, only that racism exists in Europe and it’s healthier to talk about it than be in a state of denial (and oh my God did you just suggest Jewish and Romani people are not oppressed in the United States if they’re light-skinned)! Tumblr’s anti-SJW contingent needs to get it through their thin, fragile skulls that racism is a fucking worldwide phenomenon though the specifics differ, and shutting up about it doesn’t help anyone or anything except determined racists and the perpetuation of institutional racism…. then again, you’re probably a “Reylo,” so I don’t expect any critical thinking from you at all WHAARGARBL.
As a more or less white goy passing Jew who lives in Europe and who will talk about Antisemitism here and anywhere in the world until she’s blue in the face, may I kindly invite Anon to sit the hell down and shut the fuck up.
Everything else I wanted to say has already been covered.
L.J.'s Obsessions 