Tag: long thread

jewishcomeradebot:

lj-writes:

jewishcomeradebot:

lj-writes:

jewishcomeradebot:

All that fracas about my Finnrey meta has kinda made me want to write one about how Rey’s arc in TFA and TLJ is about growing up and letting go of childish things, her longing for her family and her belief that they cared about her and step into the adult world of responsibilities. But that it’s still emotionally satisfying because it does give her what she originally wanted, someone who loves her and comes back for her in Finn. It’s just not in the way she originally thought it would be.

And that when she meets Finn again at the end of TLJ it’s no longer as the child who seeks to run off and have her fairy tale happy ending without consequences or responsibilities, but as a young woman with commitments and responsibilities of her own.

People will point to her insistence that they see the BB-8 mission through in TFA as proof that she was already responsible and a grownup–but that wasn’t what was going on. She was bound by her desire to go back to Jakku, not commitment to the Resistance’s cause. She was looking to be her parents’ child again, not a grownup responsible for others. This is completely understandable and sympathetic because she had her childhood ripped from her and never got to be protected and cherished the way children should be. It’s very hard to grow up when you weren’t able to be a child first, and Rey’s story in many ways is about that difficult journey.

I never got that argument. When Rey runs off from Maz’s castle in TFA BB-8 follows her and corners her when she stops. 

Rey: What are you doing?

BB-8: *clearly wants to know what she’s up to*

Rey: You have to go back.

BB-8: *asks something*

Rey: I’m leaving

BB-8: *wants to come with her*

Rey: You can’t. You have to go back, you’re too important.

This doesn’t sound like someone who’s prepared to invest in the Resistance and who’s already ditched the idea of going back to Jakku. She’s at this point, which comes after the Force back and after Finn has left too, literally saying to BB-8 that she’s going back and not to the Resistance.

She was willing to take the droid to the Resistance, with Finn. I think that’s the crucial point for her. He was the first person who showed any kind of concern for her, but now he’s gone and with him her reason for staying and moving on with the mission.

And notice she only gave “we have to complete the mission” as a reason when she still thought Finn was a Resistance fighter. She thought invoking the Resistance’s mission would get him to stay because that’s what he was committed to do. Once he revealed he wasn’t Resistance she no longer brought up the mission because it no longer mattered to her, as you point out. This wasn’t irresponsible or heartless of her; thanks to her efforts, BB-8 already had people to take him back to the Resistace. Now that she had gotten BB to this point it wasn’t her concern anymore, Finn was. And with Finn lost to her she was going to go back to her hopeless waiting, the only chance she had at being loved and cared for again. And then Kylo Ren appeared, the dark Cupid that brought them back together

Also lmao this means Finnrey as a romance, unlike Reylow, passes the “Twilight test,” excerpted by @elaine-spades (link): the female protagonist wants something for herself, is proactive about getting it, and succeeds or fails as a result. The poster in the excerpt even says helping Finn would have been a valid motivation for Rey, but RJ had to be too clever by half and make it obscure as hell. I don’t blame the audience for not getting it, another case of “color-blind” writing not working out as @diversehighfantasy has discussed in Screw the Slow Burn (link).

Actually what she says after Maz says that the two pirats can get Finn to the Outer Rim if that’s where he wants to go and Finn for the first time says “Rey, come with me” is,

“What about BB-8. We have to get him back to your base.” (Emphasis mine.)

Then when Finn goes to the pirates and Rey confronts him:

Rey: “What are you doing?”

then

“You can’t go. I won’t let you.”

Also earlier when Han after they escape the Guavian Death Gang and Kanji Klub asks them, “Fugitives eh?” Rey replies:

“The First Order wants the map. Finn is with the Resistance, I’m just a scavenger.”

Rey constantly separates herself from the mission. It isn’t hers, she’s just kinda along for the ride because she got dragged into it and well, Finn is really kinda cute and he’s the only person who’s shown concern and affection for her.

Not only does she separate herself from the mission, constantly pointing out that it is Finn’s mission not hers, her words to Finn just before his confession makes it pretty clear that for her it is not about the mission as such, it’s about him.

–You can’t leave. I won’t let you.

Sorry, those are not the words of someone who’s committed to a mission. It’s about her – Rey – who can’t bear to see another person she’s begun to love leave her behind.

Yup, while Rey was excited at the idea of the Resistance/Luke etc. that was a diversion for her and a kindness to BB, not her main business which was to survive and wait for her parents. She might have been forced to leave under fire but the plan was always to go back.

I also think that was the reason she wouldn’t leave with Finn. While she was strongly drawn to him, he hadn’t yet proven to be the one who would come back for her no matter what. I think more than anything, at their parting on Takodana, she wanted time; time to figure out what their relationship was as this was very new to both of them after all; time to talk about what they each wanted; time maybe even to convince her to come back to Jakku with her? (Though like, he wasn’t too excited about that obviously.) But she wouldn’t leave with him, not right then, because she couldn’t be sure she was ready to leave her chance at family behind for a man she had just met.

I believe all this changed on Starkiller Base when Chewie, the universe’s biggest Finnrey shipper in all senses, told her it was Finn’s idea to come back for her. She had seen how afraid Finn was of the First Order, and now she knew it was for a damned good reason. But he still came back for her.

This was the moment the equation changed and Jakku dropped out of the picture, to be replaced by Finn as her chance at knowing the kind of love and safety she had craved all her life. That, I believe, was what drove her throughout TLJ. The First Order is a threat to everyone, but it and Kylo Ren have a particular hatred of Finn because he represents an existential threat to them. (Random thought: Is the main FO fleet so irrationally and foolishly fixated on eradicating the tiny Resistance in part because they know the Resistance is protecting Finn? Was that one reason Rose was so angry at him for trying to leave, and couldn’t seem to let go of a simmering resentment at him almost to the end of the movie?) With the FO still out there Rey and Finn would not be safe no matter where they went. She was trying to protect Finn and her future together with him.

when y’all say reylo is homophobic but finnpoe has more chemistry than finnrey ever did and y’all still shove finnrey down our throats

jewishcomeradebot:

lj-writes:

jewishcomeradebot:

vaderey:

lj-writes:

1. Who said Reylow was homophobic? If anything I’ve seen Finnrey shippers accused of being homophobic simply for shipping Finnrey, like in this amazing post.

2. How have shippers shoved Finnrey down your throats? Again, this looks like projection because from what I have seen we are not the ones swarming every tag and harassing the creators seeking validation.

i got the exact same ask lol. someone’s out trolling

I find the timing of this ask…. suspicious tbqh.

Someone (me) writes one (1) meta about Finn’s importance to Ray and how Rey spends TLJ trying to get back to Finn or get word to him as fast as she can. While I tagged it as Finnrey because that was how I meant it, nothing in it as such need be romantic. Friends are freaking important to each other too.

And it was properly tagged. Yes I put it in the character tags and the general tags because every other ship puts their meta in the those tags so I don’t see why I should restrain myself.

But all of a sudden asshole Anon here feels threatened? Because one (1) Finnrey meta that focuses on Rey’s feelings for Finn exists?

Face it, romantic or not Finn is hugely important to Rey and her primary relationship. Not Luke, not Leia, not Han, not Chewie, not Poe. Sure as hell not Kylo. 

Finn is the most important person to her and with the two of them back together for the majority of EpIX that’s not going to change. Die mad about it.

So let me get this straight, the main SW tags can be 90% Reylow, and Reylows can invade not only the finnrey tag but the Pride and Prejudice, Forces of Destiny, all the SW cast (most of whom do not appear in the post), and fucking ARCHERY tags and anon doesn’t make a peep…

But a single piece of Finnrey content shows up in the characters and general tags, WHERE THEY ARE RELEVANT, and anon whines about “shoving finnrey down our throats?”

Wow.

Anon’s staggering hypocrisy aside, well done Mara. You must have really struck a nerve. I’ve found that for a certain subset of fragile people who can only maintain their ridiculous worldview by staying in their bubble, the other side having a well-articulated point counts as “shoving it down my throat.” See: anti Obamacare conservatives, anti-abortionists. Hardcore canon Reylows certainly fall into this category as well.

Thanks. But the fact remains that I simply said what is plain to see. Romantic or not no one will ever supplant Finn’s importance to Rey.

That’s what got Anon’s knickers in such a knot. It might have been done badly in TLJ, but bad or well done it still shows Finn as being the one for Rey. And the ones who feel threatened by his canonical importance to her is of course going to pitch a fit every time this is brought up.

Both canon reynos and canon doomsreys hate it because they know it makes their ship look very unlikely. Even too many canon Finnp*es are this way, because they don’t actually give a damn about Finn’s feelings, they just see him as a prop for “gay Poe”. So the fact that Rey cares so deeply about Finn, validates the fact that Finn cares deeply about her too. Which puts their ship in peril.

Tl;dr way too many non-Finnrey shippers feels very threatened by the fact that Rey is deeply emotionally invested in Finn.

It’s what’s got Reylows’ knickers in a knot, at least the awful ones, because at heart it’s not about a ship–it’s about not being able to handle the fact that Finn is the most important person in Rey’s life and vice versa. Some of them can’t even handle John and Daisy being close friends and keep trying to insist Daisy is besties/in love with an older married co-worker she doesn’t see outside of work, so we know it’s not about a ship to this subset of shippers. It’s about denigrating Finn’s importance to Rey and the very idea a Black man could be loved so deeply by a white woman, romantically or not.

Finn and Rey being friends and not lovers would actually be an interesting route to take, like would I love it if they were gay for Poe and Rose respectively and remain best friends for life? Fuck yeah! But in that scenario Finn and Rey would STILL be the most important people in each others’ lives, and no amount of romance or lack of it would change that.

I’ve said it before, if Finn and/or Rey end EpIX in romances with other people it would still be Finn and Rey’s relationship I’d be the most invested in and the romances would be secondary to me–which is absolutely fine and tbh I wish more movies went this route.

I know, however, that as the culture stands romantic relationships are generally centered as the most important and intense relationships outside of maybe family. SW in the OT and PT has actually been better about family relationships than romantic relationships, but in the ST we have the makings of an epic and thrilling relationship between two non-related people, Finn and Rey (barring a Luke and Leia style reveal). I’d be fine whether it’s romantic or not, but I’d love to see them become romantic because it would be one of the best-done cinematic mf romances ever and it would make racists cry.

diversehighfantasy:

seriouslycromulent:

seriouslycromulent:

Wow. So apparently Stephen Colbert has got bigoted Star Wars fans in a lather.

First, I’d like to acknowledge that although I’ve watched all but 1 Star Wars film in the entire franchise, I’ve never been a big Star Wars fan. I don’t dislike the franchise. Like I said, I’ve seen all but 1 of the films. But I wouldn’t say that I’m a part of the fandom.

With that said, I’m just now learning of how the lovely Kelly Marie Tran (who played Rose in The Last Jedi, for those who don’t know) was harassed off of Instagram due to racism, sexism and misogyny constantly being spewed at her by bigoted Star Wars fans. And I only learned this because I like to watch Colbert’s monologue throughout the week. 

Well, apparently Colbert called out the fuckery (in his own Colbert-ian way) and now there are reaction videos on YouTube lambasting Colbert for calling them sexist, racist trolls. Their argument it seems is that he’s attacking all Star Wars fans. Because, you know, if you’re a “real” SW fan, you’d be engaging in hateful rhetoric, bullying and prejudice online toward an actress of a franchise you love. If you’re not doing that, you must not be a fan.

It just trips me out how this world of geekdom/nerdom/social outcasts that the sci-fi/fantasy fandom community is supposed to represent is filled with the same level of masculine fragility, white supremacy and constant bombardment of harassment, bullying and ostracization that so many of the white males claimed to have suffered at the hands of the mainstream (read: non-geek) community for decades. 

A community that insists that they’ve been bullied, hurt, rejected and threatened for being different because they were nerds, geeks or oddballs, are so quick to take up the mantle of the bully themselves when they believe their opponent is “weaker,” inferior,” or “deserving.” And all too often, we see this play out against people of color, women, and women of color. At the end of the day, these white men (and I know it’s not all white men, so you don’t need to say it) don’t want to be respected like everyone else, they want to be in the same position of power that the people who supposedly hurt them are in. They want to do to others what the mainstream has done to them. And somehow, they think it will result in themselves being seeing as the Alpha or the protagonist. Ain’t that something?!

Whether it’s Kelly Marie Tran in Star Wars: The Last Jedi, Jada Pinkett in Gotham, Sonequa Martin-Green in Star Trek: Discovery, Leslie Jones in Ghostbusters, or Katie Leung in Harry Potter in the Goblet of Fire, let’s all admit that sci-fi/fantasy fans have a serious fucking problem with women of color. Especially women of color who they consider sexually undesirable. 

I know the problem exists for men of color too, but the shit the trolls – and let’s be honest – and actual fans throw at women of color in the nerd/geek world is essentially the same hateful tactics men (especially white men) have thrown at women of color in the mainstream world for centuries. And as women of color, we often feel like our concerns go unanswered or our pain unnoticed. 

So I’m glad that people are turning out for Kelly Marie Tran the same way they turned out for Leslie Jones. I’m happy to see here on Tumblr that they are some SW fans who are calling out this fuckery and shunning those hateful bigots, giving them no where to seek refuge for their online Klan meetings.

Because you’re right. These people are scum. Just like the haters of Star Trek: Discovery because it didn’t put a white male front and center. Just like the haters of Leslie Jones for just daring to exist. Just like the haters of Cho Chang because she kissed Harry Potter like it said to do in the script – and the book! (Seriously, I heard some white fans harassed Katie Leung in real life and sent her death threats. This was before the days of Twitter and Instagram.)

So please continue to show the world that us sci-fi/fantasy fans are not all bigots, hate-mongers and assholes. I know there are a lot of them (::cough:: comic book fans, you too. ::cough::), but just as we need to show the world that America isn’t the Tiki Torch Whites at Charlottesville, Va., we need to show the world that these trolls, bigots and haters are not who we are.

OK. I don’t feel like responding to this in a comment, so I’m going to respond to it in a reblog, as I believe it deserves to be addressed. I’m kind of tired at the moment, and it’s just easier to type this out on a desktop keyboard than on my phone.

So … regarding this comment on my blog post:

Where to begin …

To @harlequinn823 and others, if you’re interested:

I’m completely fine with Colbert’s video not addressing the harassment or fuckery that Boyega had to put up with even before the first reboot film came out. And I’ll tell you why in a minute, but first, to address your point about the fake trailer, if you go back and re-watch the trailer, Finn’s name isn’t included in the short list of “cool male characters” who get dropped into a pit.

The dialogue in the video is (listen from the 2:39 mark): 

“… all the cool male characters like Kylo Ren and Poe Dameron fell into a big hole after Rey cut their penises off.”

Although I would’ve preferred for Colbert to include Finn as a part of his “cool” male lead characters list along with Kylo Ren and Poe Dameron, the reality is that a lot of SW fans (and casual fans) don’t see him as “cool.” They like him, but they don’t think he’s cool. I disagree with them, but I know I’m in the minority. So maybe that’s why Colbert didn’t include Finn’s name. I don’t know.

But since his omission from the fake trailer list is not the most salient issue in this discussion, I’ll move on. 

What I think is the most salient point is is that Colbert was addressing the current issue with Kelly Marie Tran being harassed off of her social media channels due to bigoted trolls and fans. Although Boyega has put up with a lot, he’s 1) never left social media, and 2) has had a lot of people defending him since the attacks began – and not just in the nerd community. People have been defending Boyega and calling out and mocking the racist hate he’s been receiving since the moment it started. There have been articles in the US and abroad addressing it, most written by members of the SW fandom, the mainstream pop culture news platforms, and members of the Black community in the US, Nigeria, and the UK.

So no, Colbert didn’t include Boyega in his call out on the bitchassness that has affected Boyega, but I don’t see that necessarily as a flaw. Boyega has been, and continues to be, defended to racist trolls. And Boyega is still active on Twitter and Instagram. Not as much on Twitter as he used to, but I believe that has more to do with him being busy with his new production company than avoiding dealing with the racism in the fanbase. (Also, I use Twitter less these days too because of all the constant angry rants or depressing news that bombards you every day, so I can’t judge him for that.)

Boyega has had people stand by him. And his absence from Colbert’s monologue on this issue – that’s specifically about Kelly Marie Tran – isn’t a sign that Colbert doesn’t stand by him too. Instead, it’s a sign that he chose to focus on an issue that is currently hurting this specific woman. I’m not going to find fault with Colbert for that. 

Also, I’m a little disappointed with all this “What about John Boyega?” and “What about Jake Lloyd?” commentary I’ve been seeing. Are we that fucking anesthesized to the pain of women of color that we can’t give them their due when they’re hurting and have people come together to address why that’s wrong? Do we have to drag men into it because the notion of us caring about an Asian-American woman’s unnecessary pain seems so foreign to us? Women of color so rarely get to receive this type of attention when they’re attacked by men, and actually see people take the woman’s side. And it’s even more rare for a women of Asian descent.

Can we have this moment be about Kelly Marie?

I adore Boyega. That’s my nerd. But this isn’t a moment about him. Sure, we can reference the bigotry that has affected his life in this particular fandom, but it shouldn’t take the spotlight from what’s happened and happening to KMT.

But that’s just my 2 cents.

Colbert doesn’t defend John. When John was getting a ton of racist shit after the TFA trailer came out, Colbert did a segment making fun of Fans complaining about Kylo’s lightsaber. It’s revisionism to say that John had the same level of defense from commentators, media and official sources. Abrams didn’t say anything about John’s harassment until a year later.

I know Finn wasn’t part of the pit part – as he should not have been. But the video’s one acknowledgement of fandom’s antiblack racism was Porgs with a Black Lives Matter sign. Not Finn as the male lead, which pissed off the people they were targeting just as much as having woman leads.

Which suggests it was more about getting feminist applause than actually dealing with an issue that DOES go beyond Kelly. By the logic that it’s all about Kelly and only Kelly, the video shouldn’t have highlighted other women like Rey and Holdo who have also faced fandom misogyny.

Disney is riding a narrative right now that says the only reason to dislike TLJ is if you’re a bigoted, misogynistic manbaby, and this fits that narrative without bringing, you know, the “volatility” of blackness into it.

I support Kelly Marie Tran. Colbert can suck it.

People who say they defend Asians while denigrating and ignoring Black people and other POCs can fuck all the way off. The hypocrites who claim to care about racism while ignoring antiblack racism are very much included. That’s missing the whole damned point and it’s worse than useless. If you treat antiblack racism like business as usual because Black people are “strong” and can “take it” or some such shit, if you don’t even see it happening and only go uwu poor dear over people you deem worthy of protection, then you are part of the problem.

geekandmisandry:

thecheshirecass:

ruffboijuliaburnsides:

smidgenswimming:

tatterdemalionamberite:

squiditty:

ruffboijuliaburnsides:

Important twitter thread.

Source: https://twitter.com/jduffyrice/status/1000927903759110144?s=21

[Caption; A series of tweets by josie duffy rice/ @jduffyrice

Now that we’re all on twitter because of this game, I am making a public service announcement: PLEASE STOP SHARING THAT STORY ABOUT 1500 KIDS MISSING.  The outrage I’ve seen is the result of a total misinterpretation and could SERIOUSLY threaten the children you want to save.

Before I get to it, I’ll answer the question that 99 million ppl will inevitably ask: I know this because I’m a lawyer, i works on criminal justice issues (sometimes incl immigration), and 4 of my closest friends are immigration attorneys dealing with this EXACT THING.

There are two things going on.  1) HHS doesn’t know where 1500 unaccompanied minors are.  2) we are separating parents and children at the border. 

These are different.  The kids in 1) were not separated from their parents at the border.  They crossed the border alone* or arrived here without a parent.

That’s not really the point I want to make, though it is important. 

These kids were dealt with by ORR, the office of refugee resettlement.  They were released into the care of people that almost always fit within one of these three categories:

1) immediate family  2) extended family  3) other people that the child has a pre-existing relationship with.  If none of these categories apply, then the kids normally stay in a shelter.

(After a number of children were trafficked in 2014, these restrictions got tighter.)

So those kids are released and then they are no longer ORRs responsibility or problem.  THIS IS A GOOD THING.

One analogy I heard from my dear friend who I won’t tag without her permission, is that ORR is basically a jailer.  Do you want the jail keeping track of where every former inmate is?

Now I have more to say about that but before we do that, let’s talk about the word missing.  Basically by all accounts HHS did a cursory reach out to check on these kids, and couldn’t find out where they were exactly. 

When I say cursory I mean cursory.  We’re talking about phone calls.  Phone calls! Like, no door knocks.  No checking school records.  They called.  They didn’t find answers. 

There are so many reasons why people wouldn’t answer.  Maybe these kids are living with someone undocumented.  Maybe they aren’t but their sponsor is (legitimately) completely scared of immigration authorities in trumps America.

They aren’t missing!  They are almost certainly living with family members who almost certainly don’t want to interact with the government and WE SHOULDN’T ASK THEM TO

ORR’s job is NOT to track and monitor these kids, and it shouldn’t be.  As my friend said, if there were an issue- abuse, or other wrongdoing- it should go through the appropriate agency: children’s services or what have you.  It SHOULDN’T GO THROUGH HHS/ORR or DHS/ICE

When your school loans provider can’t reach you, are you missing?  No.  When your boss can’t find you on a Friday night, are you missing?  No.  They aren’t missing.  Some unanswered phone calls does not a missing child make.

Now, I started out identifying two things that were happening.  The second- the separation of children and their parents at the border- is goddamn unconscionable and sickening. 

But DO NOT confuse the two.  The potential for it backfiring is real.  What we’re demanding is that ORR, which works hand in hand with ICE, “keep better track” of kids they basically would like to deport if giving the chance.  We don’t want that!!!

You’re asking immigration authorities IN TRUMP’S AMERICA to BETTER MONITOR UNDOCUMENTED CHILDREN AND THEIR FAMILIES.  You don’t want this.  I promise you don’t.

I get it.  It sounds awful.  But at WORST it’s benign.  At best, it’s a GOOD thing that ORR doesn’t know where these kids are.  There’s a reason.  We actually now have pretty strict requirements before we release these kids.  They aren’t all being trafficked.  They aren’t dead.

It doesn’t mean life is easy, but life won’t be easier if ORR starts tracking them.  Trust me.  And trust my brilliant friends who know about this shit and have warned me and are now warning you.  DONT conflate the two things.

AND because some people are obviously taking this as an opportunity to exonerate the president- NO.  Trumps immigration policy is disgusting.  His separation of kids and parents at the border is SICKENING.  He’s a tyrant.  Just don’t conflate them.

Man oh man I forget that at least 50 percent of people on twitter refuse to learn basic reading comprehension.  Tonight should be fun!

] *[Also it says “alien” up there where it should say “alone”, cool, autocorrect.]

*corrected autocorrect/typo in my transcription for the sake of being less confusing, especially for anyone listening to the text rather than reading it visually.

Since I reblogged a post about this issue, here is a correction.

I’m not sure what’s true anymore, but here is someone else’s take on it

it’s worth taking a look at the links i added to the original post – the “missing” kids are completely unrelated to the kids that ICE has been separating from their families, and that’s very clear if you actually read the articles and shit about the situation.

Not a call out just letting you know that there are sources and ish. 🙂

I saw the thread in Twitter originally and I’m glad someone brought it over here. It was good to read and understand. I feel like there’s definitely some media manipulation going on that might end up feeding MORE power to ICE, which is the last thing we want.

Thank you for the captions.

jewishcomeradebot:

lj-writes:

themandalorianwolf:

lj-writes:

One thing that bothers me about how TLJ is supposed to subvert the traditional SW idea of heroism is, this subversion just happened to take place after SW was led by heroic women and characters of color. Part of the reason fans of color responded so positively to TFA was because it put men of color and a woman in traditional heroic roles with a modern twist. Finn is a reluctant hero, but a former Stormtrooper who wrestles with his trauma. Poe is a hotshot pilot with a heart of gold, but a humble and kindhearted one who doesn’t rely on toxic masculinity. Rey is a Force user who came from nowhere, but a woman who is also struggling with abandonment issues. The main villain is a moderately attractive young white man. TFA has been criticized for its overreliance on ANH’s tropes, but in a way it was what a lot of SW fans needed, to see themselves in the same, even old-fashioned heroic roles that were denied to them.

But no, as soon as we have Black and Latino leads in main trio, there is a huge insistence that things can’t be this way. Large sections of fandom start to insist that the actual tragic hero and true victim must be the murdering and torturing white guy. Then the franchise itself partly backs them up with TLJ’s so-called subversions–no, Finn is a coward who has to be slapped into place by a wiser woman. No, Poe is a macho gloryhound who has to be literally slapped into his place by white women. Rey is a gullible girl who has to rely on one white guy or another. And none of them can be from a special bloodline because we have to subvert that now, too. Force forbid characters of color and female leads have heritage of their own, that’s solely for white men. Oh, and we’re no longer interested in Finn’s, Poe’s, or Rey’s trauma, the only internal life that matters is the white mass murderer’s.

So the message I get from this is that traditional heroism is boring and no longer for SW the moment characters of color and women have a shot at it. To borrow an image that’s been used in other contexts, it’s like we’re climbing a ladder to get somewhere we’ve wanted for decades. Then, mid-climb, the people who have already climbed the ladder to the top kick it away. While we’re on the ground hurting and wondering what the hell just happened, the white guy who kicked the ladder lectures us from on high how useless the ladder was in the first place and how stupid we were to want to climb it. That’s pretty galling, to say the least, coming from a franchise that still has a problem with letting characters of color and especially Black women simply exist on screen.

This is why it rubs me the wrong way when fans, especially white fans, are so enthusiastic about the subversiveness of TLJ. They’re using faux progressive language while being completely oblivious to, or choosing to ignore, that this “subversion” comes across as a slap in the face to many fans.

That’s what pisses me off about TLJ, among other things. TFA is subversion enough.

TFA

Finn: The Red Shirt Stormtrooper turns out to be the hero of the galaxy

Rey: The damsel in distress turns out to be a Skywalker Jedi.

Poe: The hot headed rogue turns out to be a humble Resistance Hero.

Kylo: The son of two heroes turns out to be the villain and rejects redemption.

Snoke: The cool and calm calculating big bad instead of the overused sadist trope.

Hux: The young general who stands toe to toe with Kylo.

The ending of the film ends bittersweet, unlike the happy ending of A new Hope. Han is dead, a system is dead, Finn is in a coma and Rey is traumatized from her experiences. But Starkiller base is destroyed and Kylo is defeated. Luke Skywalker is found. The War is just beginning.

TLJ

Finn: Stereotypical Black comic relief – no character arc

Poe: hot head Latino man who never listens – always wrong

Rey: Soft eyes girl who is used as a plot device – no character arc.

Rose: Refuge – no character arc

Luke: Grumpy old man – used as a plot device.

Kylo: Plot device with a character arc.

TLJ isn’t subversion. It’s a polished turd that no one wants to accept is bad.

Exactly. And yet TFA is lambasted for being derivative, while TLJ is hailed as the great white hope of Star Wars. It’s almost like subversion ain’t good enough if it uplifts and empowers female characters and characters of color.

I’m going to tell you a story about a colleague of mine. I don’t generally talk about other people in my life online because none of them asked to be put here. Heck I barely talk about myself as there’s too many creeps in the world and I don’t want another stalker. But she okayed this story, so here goes.

My colleague is a biracial Black woman and we’ve both been working at this city’s libraries for years. She’s never really been into scifi or comic book movies or TV-series, but her fiancee is and he often takes her to premieres on this stuff. It’s not that she doesn’t enjoy the movies but left on her own she’d be a “I’d watch it after its been out a few weeks and the ticket price is down or when it comes out on dvd” type of audience, certainly nor a die hard fan.

Well, when TFA came out her fiancee, then boyfriend, took her to the premiere and she was completely enchanted by it. When we saw each other after Christmas that year she virtually pounced me to talk about it as I’m the biggest Star Wars nerd the libraries have and its a well known fact. She wanted to talk to someone who wasn’t a white guy about it – yes bf is white – because her bf only found it enjoyable but too much of an ANH/OT ripoff, but she loved it. In her words it was “ANH for everyone who isn’t a (white) guy”.

We spent months squeeing about together and she went to watch it three more times. Once with friends and twice on her own. This was a woman who pre-TFA would never have done so. While she had seen all the PT movies in the theater and enjoyed them it had never been more than once and never alone. 

She even started buying merch.

A year later when Rogue One came out bf was away on a business trip at the time of the premiere, but she bought tickets and went on her own to it because TFA had pulled her that much into Star Wars. And though the ending made her sad she still went and watched it twice more.

Fast forward to TLJ.

Due to restructuring in our organization we now work at different satellite libraries and work at the main library on different days, so we don’t see each other as much as we used to, therefore it wasn’t until a couple of months after TLJ came out that I had a chance to ask her what she though.

Now my colleague is a woman who’s very much a “eh, it’s fiction” person in reaction to something she used to enjoy taking a turn for the worse. She can rarely get worked up that much about it, because well, it’s fiction. So when I asked her about TLJ I was not expecting her reaction.

She was livid. I’ve rarely seen her this angry about anything, she’s a very laid back person, and certainly never about a piece of fiction. We spent our lunch break ripping TLJ to shreds.

When I asked if she was still going to see Solo the answer was a flat ‘no’, though when asked her the same question a year ago she expressed some enthusiasm to watch the movie. 

Her response to being asked if she’ll watch Episode IX?

*shrug* “Probably. [Boyfriend] will go, so I’ll probably go with him.”

This isn’t a “disgruntled older fan who can’t let go of the past”. It’s a woman whom TFA brought from the general audience category and into if not diehard fan then certainly impassioned casual, a new fan who was willing to throw a good deal of her “for fun” budget at LF and Disney. 

TLJ killed Star Wars completely for her, she’s utterly lost her enthusiasm and unless Episode IX somehow works a miracle she’ll be a fan who’s permanently lost to the franchise.

And she’s far from the only former fan with this story.

This is what TLJ and its “subversion” faux progressive shit did. Yes it might have alienated some of the older fans, but I think the largest group of those who’s said goodbye to Star Wars are newer fans who was brought in by TFA or RO, who might have liked the OT trio but who fell in love with the new heroic leads only to have to watch Rian screw them all over.

I’ve seen it echoed here on tumblr and other social media. Many of those who remain are older fans like me, not because we don’t hate TLJ and what it did with the same passion, but because we’ve been in love with Star Wars for too long to let one crappy movie drive us away.

The newer fans, the fans that came with TFA and RO have no such long lasting connection and less hesitance to bid Star Wars goodbye.

lj-writes:

lj-writes:

Leia slapping Poe is so unprofessional, inappropriate, and hypocritical. As I detailed before in a previous attempted viewing, Leia fucking SIGNED OFF on the plan to destroy the dreadnought, barring some dumbfuck technical limitation that prevented her from overruling Poe and contacting the bombers directly to pull out. This attack is on her as the superior officer who had every chance to call off the mission and have Poe hauled to the brig for disobeying a direct order.

Not only is it shitty as hell for her to lay hands on an officer, she’s blaming him for the cost of an attack that she allowed to go through and that just makes her look like an irresponsible, incompetent ninny. This isn’t Carrie’s fault, obviously, it’s Johnson’s and also Kennedy’s for leaving the movie and Leia’s character in the hands of a man who doesn’t have any concept of logic or the basic workings of society.

Also like why are the stakes so boring? Why is the might of the First Order, which evidently gives zero fucks about losing an entire planetary superweapon, so focused on this one tiny fleet? Don’t these fucksticks have a galaxy to rule or something? And the vehicle they give us for this incomprehensible situation is a movie-length low-speed chase? I’m so excited, I’m snoring.

Leia flying through space is… not as bad as I feared, but mostly my thought is, so what. This is Star Wars. I’m supposed to be excited that a character, particularly a known Force sensitive, is able to move things with her mind? Especially when it’s going to be a prelude to putting her in a coma for most of the movie?

Just eat the obvious prop porg, Chewie. I don’t give a shit anymore.

Due to the obvious wrongness of Leia blaming Poe, her subordinate officer, for an attack she allowed him to make, Holdo’s treatment of Poe is similarly tainted. She comes across as high-handed as off-putting instead of the capable woman putting the mansplainer in his place that reviewers have crowed about.

And Rose tasing Finn… just… ugh. So let me get this straight: Finn is sliced with a lightsaber across the spine, and his wound and recovery are played for a cheap slapstick and visual gag. Having just recovered from a serious and life-threatening wound, he is shot with a force so strong he goes flying across a room and hits his back. He is temporarily paralyzed as a result. But we’re not supposed to take this physical trauma seriously at all, it’s just what he gets for being a cowardly deserter (which he isn’t) while Rose gets to use her trauma of losing Paige to justify her treatment of him?

I now see why Rose stans keep bringing up Paige to justify Rose in this scene. In addition to their own latent racism that’s the way the scene has been framed, as Finn owing something to Rose, not for anything he did wrong but because she happened to idealize him, and deserving to be hurt for a crime he did not commit. This movie is such a mess and so upsetting, I can’t even.

Also Johnson seriously can’t write a character with any depth to save his life, can he? Poe’s every other sentence is wanting to blow shit up? Really?

I have so many questions about Poe, Finn, and Rose hatching their plan. So if Finn’s arc in this movie is about learning how to stop being a selfish POS or some shit (FUCK YOU JOHNSON), it looks like this growth has already been established in like, 2 scenes? First he’s going to run away, but has a change of heart because Rose was sad and also put a million volts through him? (Seriously, can he get the agency and dignity to change his own mind without being beaten into it? Too much to ask?) So that’s like… character development accomplished? He’s already seen the bigger picture and went from “this fleet is doomed” to deciding to save the fleet. He already sees his and Rey’s fate in the context of the survival of the Resistance rather than just their own individual survival.

This was a choice that he already made at the end of TFA, btw, so I’m not sure why it had to be retread at all because RJ is a talentless hack who just wants to copy JJ’s greatest hits. It’s also just a really poor and abrupt way to do character arcs. Just say you don’t give a shit about Finn’s character, RJ, it saves time.

A more sinister reading is also possible, too: the implication is strong in this scene that Finn is being coerced with the threat of jail time for his supposed desertion, or at least Poe’s disappointment if Rose tells on him. Under this reading Finn’s talk of saving the fleet and the heartfelt gesture of giving the tracking bracelet to Poe are empty, the product of Rose’s blackmail. Yet again, it does neither Finn’s nor Rose’s character any favors.

And Poe? We’re supposed to believe that a career military officer who left the Republic military to serve with Leia is a macho he-man who disrespects women, has no concept of the military chain of command, and would undermine it for his own petty grudge. The multitalented pilot/intelligence officer who conducted sensitive espionage operations as Leia’s right-hand man, who left his former post due to the dictates of his courage, conscience, and intelligence, is a meathead who can’t understand technical details and has nothing but explosions on his mind. Mmkay. We’ve estabilshed that this is RJ’s character assassination version of Poe. But.

Why are Finn and Rose going along with him? I’m guessing they haven’t met Holdo and possibly don’t know at the start of the scene that she commands the fleet now. But once C-3PO tells them, they can’t claim ignorance of the fact that Poe is greenlighting their plan against Holdo’s knowledge. Why isn’t Finn questioning the wisdom, or at least the very real difficulties, of going over a Vice-Admiral’s head? Why are both he and Rose entirely willing to accept, without argument, 3PO’s argument that Holdo would never agree to this plan?

If anything this scene leads me to believe discontent with Holdo was widespread long before the mutiny. (And it wasn’t even that long, given the short time frame we’re working with.) It’s not just Poe who thinks Holdo is an autocratic leader who ignores ideas and input from others. C-3PO, who has decades of military and negotiating experience, Finn, a newcomer to this organization who has some experience with authoritarian leaders, and Rose, a rank-and-file mechanic, all reached the same conclusion independently within hours of Holdo coming on board.

This is where you can see RJ’s sloppiness as a writer, where his writing shows the exact opposite of what he means to establish. Alternately, if he meant to establish Holdo’s failure of leadership, he contradicts himself there as well by portraying Poe as this simple-minded caveman character and Leia firmly on Holdo’s side. The result is an incoherent mess.

This scene is also where all the leads of color are swept into a meaningless side plot where they were all wrong for not listening to the white woman and do a great deal of harm, so again… fuck you, Johnson.

Jon Kasdan tweeted about Enfys Nest “Thank the incomparable @Maisie_Williams ’cause we knew wanted a character in Star Wars that at least ASPIRED to be, like, a fraction as bad-ass as ARYA STARK.”

asianamidala:

reys–speeder:

thelastjedicritical:

lj-writes:

I’m confused. Like there weren’t badass female characters in SW before?

They keep shooting themselves in their own feet …

I’m not sure how to phrase this, but I think that the people at LucasFilm are trying to make Star wars like Game of Thrones (hiring the directors, comparing arya stark, choosing an actress from GoT)

Arya is an abused child soldier, made to murder to survive and who’s violent nature and murdering is romanticised by the show runners and the fandom… how the fuck is she badass? She is a tragic character.

14 year old Padmé Amidala choosing diplomacy before violence is badass
Mon Mothma and Padmé Amidala creating the Rebel Alliance to fight against an emperor who is a powerful sith lord is badass 
19 year old Leia Organa refusing to sell out the rebels under torture is badass
Oola the twi’lek dancer trying to fight Jabba off despite being in chains is badass
Rose Tico fighting against fascism while in mourning for her sister is badass
Rey leaving Kylo Ren to do the right thing and to help her friends is badass
Ahsoka Tano fighting Vader to save Ezra is badass
Jyn Erso dying to make sure her father’s work against fascism wasn’t in vain is badass
Breha Organa and Beru Whitesun taking in an orphan child, despite the danger it brings them, yet loving the child as their own no matter what is badass

I can go on… Star Wars already has its badass women, we don’t need romanticised child soldiers or white saviours to bring badass women to Star Wars

Exactly! That bothered me about the Arya comment too, because the character as I remembered her was more sad than empowering, but I didn’t know the recent developments well enough (I stopped reading after the fourth book and stopped watching after the first season) to feel qualified to comment. It’s creepy that so many creators mistake women’s suffering for being badass.

diversehighfantasy:

lj-writes:

“Star Wars is a story about redemption!”

Then I’m rooting for the redemption of the tens of thousands of Stormtroopers who were abducted, enslaved, brainwashed, indoctrinated, and abused. They knew nothing else, but if shown another way maybe they can make a different choice and bring down their oppressors.

“Star Wars is a story about hope!”

Then I hope Supreme Leader Kyle Ron, a torturer and murderer who had every opportunity to turn away from evil but refused it each time, who willingly took over an enslaving genocidal organization and is continuing its policies, will watch his entire world collapse around him and suffer utter and total defeat.

“But… you don’t get it. It’s a story of redemption and hope for white men who have famous names and a need to get away scott-free with their crimes.”

Maybe, just maybe, the sequel trilogy that refuted the entire idea of the Skywalkers being special and is intent on killing and sidelining every Skywalker it can get its hands on, that made its one surviving Skywalker/Solo an evil war criminal and fascist tyrant, plans to subvert the idea that a powerful bloodline is the end-all be-all in this new universe? Maybe characters like Finn, Rey, and the Stormtroopers–the actual forgotten children of the universe–are meant to be the true heroes who triumph over an elitist mass murderer with a famous name. You know, just maybe.

And like, of all of the characters over the years, all of the suffering they endured, all of the tragic endings, Kylo Ren is the one who should have a happy ending? Nah.

The Sith were destroyed. Kylo proves that you don’t need the lure of the Sith to have evil in you. He makes choices, completely conscious of the fact that what he’s doing is wrong. And yet he’s treated as if he doesn’t have an ounce of free will. Even Anakin had to be carefully manipulated over years. How is puppet Kylo (despite having clear free will when he’s seen by himself asking Anakin to help him fight the light) who turns into the happy good guy complex storytelling? How does that make sense?

The problem is, Kylo being a commander (now Supreme Leader) of the First Order, an organization that destroys more planets and terrorizes more people than The Empire did and doesn’t even pretend to be anything but evil, means that all the battles of Yavin and Hoth and Endor did was destroy some weapons. What does it matter that the Sith were defeated if the Empire came back with bigger weapons? Kylo isn’t where he is because he’s a Sith who fell to the Dark Side, but because he wants to be. Snoke’s fatal error was thinking he could be controlled.

So, where’s the hope? How can it end so that things are better, and the entire Skywalker history isn’t reduced to nothing? I agree that it’s with the thousands of Stormtroopers, a rebellion that guts the FO from the inside, it’s with the billions of people in the galaxy standing up against tyranny, and Luke’s legacy, Rey, bringing the Jedi into a new day. That’s hope for the galaxy, not for one corrupted man.

Puppet Kylo makes story sense in one and one context only: an attempt to derail Finn’s story with “poor Ben had it worse!” Kylo is Finn’s foil in every way. They are from contrasting backgrounds and made the opposite choices. The same people Kylo hurt, Finn befriended and helped. Kylo in TFA was shown to hate Finn obsessively, probably for this very reason. Puppet Kylo takes him out of this foil relationship and gives his pain, his background, precedence over what was done to Finn and what he chose to do in response. Finn, Rey, Poe, and everyone else who was victimized by him are no longer allowed their own pain, they are now forced to empathize with Kylo and being angry about what was done to them makes them the bad guys. TLJ was an overly long exercise in centering Kylo and sidelining Finn, but even it was not stupid enough to go the puppet route and showed, in its muddled way, Finn and Kylo make the opposite choices yet again.

Puppet Kylo is boring and terrible storytelling in every way, but it is very effective at prioritizing whiteness and sidelining the Black lead. It’s in the same vein as arguing Kylo’s war crimes are not too bad, which in addition to making me want to run far away from whoever spouts that shit, also has the convenient effect of denigrating the morality of Finn’s choice and painting him as some kind of helplessly softhearted puppy (one war crimes-apologist Reylow actually called him “my good boy, my best boy”) instead of a psychologically complex man who made difficult moral choices in spite of the physical danger and his own deep-seated trauma.

Star Wars is, fundamentally, a story about choice. Kylo’s choices are what defined him, else the past two movies were just giant wastes of time and the last movie will essentially have to start from scratch. He is far beyond a happy ending. Maybe he’ll have a redemption, but after all the lives he’s destroyed he can’t be both happy and redeemed. He passed that point the moment he chose to respond to Luke’s momentary lapse with mass murder.

thisforsakenbeauty:

a-ffection:

dankxsinatra:

longstoryshortikilledhim:

has this been done yet

@a-ffection yourtrashson.jpg

Okay, #1 he was under orders from Snoke who would have undoubtedly killed him and possibly his family just to make him suffer if he disobeyed orders. And #2 you have no sense of character depth. 🙄🙄🙄

Throwing in my two cents– even though I’m not a huge fan of Kylo, I gotta back Jaz on this one. Kylo’s been manipulated by Snoke since he was young. I’ve seen a bunch of people saying that he has no excuses because he had a good, happy family– but all that is based on assumptions. (I think– I’m drawing from the movies only, I’ve not read the text adaptations. Just let me know if I’m wrong) And even if he did have a good family– does that negate the fact that he was manipulated? No. Just because someone grew up in a loving family doesn’t mean they can’t experience abuse. It would be far more inexcusable if he HAD A SUPPORT SYSTEM from his family during that time, but we’ve not been shown anything of the sort. My point is, his family couldn’t possibly adequately help, support, or protect him if they didn’t know that he was being manipulated & groomed by a malicious person.

In no way am I excusing the fact that he murdered people– that is still wrong and it is only right that he accepts that blame, responsibility, and burden. Plus as Jaz said, he was under Snoke’s thumb. If he was indeed manipulated and groomed by Snoke since he was young, then placed in a significant position, that thus imposed a greater amount of pressure on him and would’ve given Snoke more excuses to manipulate him if he made mistakes. It would be difficult to break free from a manipulator/abuser’s influence if one’s been under his thumb for a long time. So there is a reason why he did it. Not an excuse, but still a reason.

However Luke isn’t blameless. Yes, Luke didn’t make him do it. It was Snoke’s influence and ultimately Ben Solo committed it. However, when Ben was still under his tutelage, Luke sensed that something Dark and powerful was influencing Ben. Because Ben was not with his parents at the time… as a Light Jedi, as his elder, as his trainer, and as his UNCLE, it was ultimately Luke’s responsibility to confront it– to protect Ben– to guide him THROUGH the temptation. If he had done just that, things could have been different. Ben was YOUNG. Adolescents are generally self-centered have difficulties seeing beyond that, etc– they need GUIDANCE and SUPPORT. But what did Luke do? TRY TO KILL HIM IN HIS SLEEP. (Can I just say that I really hate what the new trilogy did to Luke’s character? It’s bullshit.) Seriously? OF COURSE THAT’D MAKE THINGS WORSE. Obviously that was the last straw. And who knows what things Snoke’s been telling Ben? Luke trying to kill him may have just “confirmed” whatever Snoke’s been feeding Ben. So yes, he completely and utterly failed Ben.

Moreover, everyone deserves a CHANCE at redemption, to pay for their sins. Including Kylo. But that relies entirely on the character (and the writers)’s willingness to go down that difficult path. I’m a big fan of redemption arcs, plus I like Anakin so I feel that if Ben desires so much to emulate Darth Vader (ironic, because it was Anakin’s bondage and enslavement), it only makes even more sense for him to be saved/freed at the end too, and actually go through a redemption arc. After all, Star Wars is a story of hope.

“Ben” was 23 when he killed a school full of students. That’s mighty old for an adolescent. Also the point of the OP still stands–it was ultimately he who chose his actions, and it’s both dishonest and cowardly of him to blame Luke for it. It’s impossible for him to have a redemption of any sort while he refuses to take responsibility for his own actions.

trekmemes:

warp6:

lj-writes:

Just what level of “don’t ever fuck with us” is Starfleet? I mean I used to think Jem Hadar and Klingons being these fierce warrior races was something of an Informed Trait when they kept losing in face-to-face fights with mild-mannered Starfleet officers. But then I realized… it’s actually because Starfleet officers are just that tough.

Just how motivated and ambitious you have to be, as someone coming from a post-scarcity society, to sign up for such arduous training and potential danger? I have to wonder kind of people decide to go through years of rigorous education, constant work and travel, and the possibility of a nasty death when they are guaranteed lives without fear or want right on their home planets.

Could it be that Starfleet may, in fact, be a place for malcontents? Not the kind of small-time malcontent that turns to destruction and exploitation, but the kind of malcontent that is stifled on some level by the cushy existence of their home planet (even while being willing to die to protect it) and wants something more. Something out there and anywhere but here.

Such people are dangerous to the preexisting system unless they have an outlet for their energies. Just to name a few headliner captains, leave the James Kirks, the Jean-Luc Picards, the Kathryn Janeways, the Benjamin Siskos, the Philippa Georgious with nothing to do but enjoy life, and chances are they’d get restless. You can see their innate drive in the paths they didn’t take and in alternate universes: Picard has a brother who was perfectly content to run a vineyard at home, living a comfortable rural existence. Picard could have had that or any of a million other career paths, but he still chose the uncertainty of the stars. The 20th-century version of Benjamin Sisko had a burning ambition to write groundbreaking science fiction despite being struck down over and over again by racism. Georgiou was goddamned Emperor in the Mirror Universe, and Burnham and Lorcas wanted her throne. Clearly these are not people who can sit content and let the world be; they shift the very earth they stand on and reach for the stars any way they can.

So what do you do with world-shakers in paradise? You could choose to kill them or lock them up and “reeducate” them, but that goes against the Federation’s ideals. You could let them live free and potentially climb to the top, but they might make too many changes and disrupt the whole comfortable arrangement.

Or, you could give them a way out–infinite ways out, in fact, into space. Their boundless energy would be structured and channeled in morally acceptable directions by the strict rules and directives of Starfleet, and their ambition to be better than others and be judged by their abilities would find expression in rank and promotions.

These are, of course, the same individuals who would die to protect the Federation when it is threatened by a race of fierce warriors, a mechanical collective, or vast theocratic empire. The same people who would have felt stifled in civilian life and could have threatened the whole system become its fiercest defenders. It’s a brilliant system, really, that meets everyone’s interests and turns a society’s potential threats into its greatest assets.

I don’t think it’s any wonder, looking at these incredibly trained and driven people who can take down Klingons in single combat and engineer their way out of alternate timelines, that non-Federation worlds–and maybe more than a few Federation ones–hover somewhere between suspicious and outright terrified of the Federation’s intentions. Starfleet is one of the major reasons one can make a case for the Federation being a “soft” empire, and I can see why peoples ranging from the Ferengi to the Klingons are so suspicious of them. Because you do not ever fuck with Starfleet.

I love this! I feel like Starfleet is commonly seen in fandom as this awesome career everyone on Earth probably aspires to—after all, we all live with the constant potential for ugly death in our not-technologically-advanced-utopia world, and most of us would love the chance to do that but IN SPACE. But whenever I think about the actual reality of Trek!Earth, it’s like…if you live on Earth in the 22nd+ century you are literally guaranteed a long and healthy life. You are guaranteed to die only of (very) old age!!!

And there are probably plenty of safe skydiving/whitewater rafting/speed shuttle piloting/VR equivalent of all of the above and more outlets if you’re just an adrenaline junkie, and plenty of meaningful jobs that aren’t Starfleet, from creating art to doing research to civilian inventing/engineering to teaching…To have everything you could want as far as quality of life and safety and entertainment goes, and still choose Starfleet—to join the military-not-as-we-know-it-but-still-basically-the-peaceful-equivalent-of-a-military, to follow orders, to risk everything…yeah. It’s only certain people who are gonna want to do that.

Whenever I read a fic where Starfleet is referred to as “the service,” I think to myself, Exactly.

I love everything you pointed out about the kind of person who would do that. I think that the flip side, though, is that they also have to be (or become) the kind of person who is willing to follow orders, and give up a LOT of control over their lives, compared to the 22nd+ century general population, who (unlike us) never have to answer to a single boss if they don’t want to! I’m sure Starfleet is much more enlightened than, for instance, the modern US military when it comes to letting people leave Starfleet at will, rather than being in for a set number of years, but while you ARE in…you go where you’re assigned and do what you’re told.

And the conflict between that aspect of serving, and being, as you put it, a world-shaker, is fascinating. And something I think we do see on the show a lot. (What is the Prime Directive, after all, but Starfleet’s ultimate standing order?)

Starfleet is certainly a creation of pure brilliance.

It’s a home for the restless, the ambitious- the sort of people who are permanently dissatisfied with their lives no matter what they’re doing. In any society, you’re going to have people who aren’t content to settle down home on the farm, and who seek out the ‘big city’ instead. As Jim Kirk puts it, “Other people [have families], Bones, not us.”

Now what are you supposed to do with all that energy? Some might call it the adventurers’ instinct, but it presents itself mostly in troublemakers. They’re the people eternally unhappy with the status quo, who if left alone will find ways to destabilize entire regimes (or if less charismatic, make people feel miserable about their choice to ‘be ordinary’). But what are they to do once their society achieves paradise? Stay at home and stagnate? No, too dangerous- any one of them could become the next Khan Noonien Singh. It’s a ticking time bomb of internal conflict for a peaceful utopia.

So put them to work. There’s plenty of labor to be done in space: research, data collection, diplomacy, potential warfare. Let them be the arms and legs of the Federation, spreading the gospel of peace and prosperity with one hand, striking down its enemies with the other. Let them assimilate the entire quadrant into the Federation. (After all, assimilation IS what the Federation does, no less than the Borg, although this is one you’re more likely to survive with your personality and culture intact.)

Long story short: don’t fuck with Starfleet, home to nearly all the restless geniuses of 150 planets.