Tag: meta

“Star Wars is a story about redemption!”

Then I’m rooting for the redemption of the tens of thousands of Stormtroopers who were abducted, enslaved, brainwashed, indoctrinated, and abused. They knew nothing else, but if shown another way maybe they can make a different choice and bring down their oppressors.

“Star Wars is a story about hope!”

Then I hope Supreme Leader Kyle Ron, a torturer and murderer who had every opportunity to turn away from evil but refused it each time, who willingly took over an enslaving genocidal organization and is continuing its policies, will watch his entire world collapse around him and suffer utter and total defeat.

“But… you don’t get it. It’s a story of redemption and hope for white men who have famous names and a need to get away scott-free with their crimes.”

Maybe, just maybe, the sequel trilogy that refuted the entire idea of the Skywalkers being special and is intent on killing and sidelining every Skywalker it can get its hands on, that made its one surviving Skywalker/Solo an evil war criminal and fascist tyrant, plans to subvert the idea that a powerful bloodline is the end-all be-all in this new universe? Maybe characters like Finn, Rey, and the Stormtroopers–the actual forgotten children of the universe–are meant to be the true heroes who triumph over an elitist mass murderer with a famous name. You know, just maybe.

thisforsakenbeauty:

a-ffection:

dankxsinatra:

longstoryshortikilledhim:

has this been done yet

@a-ffection yourtrashson.jpg

Okay, #1 he was under orders from Snoke who would have undoubtedly killed him and possibly his family just to make him suffer if he disobeyed orders. And #2 you have no sense of character depth. 🙄🙄🙄

Throwing in my two cents– even though I’m not a huge fan of Kylo, I gotta back Jaz on this one. Kylo’s been manipulated by Snoke since he was young. I’ve seen a bunch of people saying that he has no excuses because he had a good, happy family– but all that is based on assumptions. (I think– I’m drawing from the movies only, I’ve not read the text adaptations. Just let me know if I’m wrong) And even if he did have a good family– does that negate the fact that he was manipulated? No. Just because someone grew up in a loving family doesn’t mean they can’t experience abuse. It would be far more inexcusable if he HAD A SUPPORT SYSTEM from his family during that time, but we’ve not been shown anything of the sort. My point is, his family couldn’t possibly adequately help, support, or protect him if they didn’t know that he was being manipulated & groomed by a malicious person.

In no way am I excusing the fact that he murdered people– that is still wrong and it is only right that he accepts that blame, responsibility, and burden. Plus as Jaz said, he was under Snoke’s thumb. If he was indeed manipulated and groomed by Snoke since he was young, then placed in a significant position, that thus imposed a greater amount of pressure on him and would’ve given Snoke more excuses to manipulate him if he made mistakes. It would be difficult to break free from a manipulator/abuser’s influence if one’s been under his thumb for a long time. So there is a reason why he did it. Not an excuse, but still a reason.

However Luke isn’t blameless. Yes, Luke didn’t make him do it. It was Snoke’s influence and ultimately Ben Solo committed it. However, when Ben was still under his tutelage, Luke sensed that something Dark and powerful was influencing Ben. Because Ben was not with his parents at the time… as a Light Jedi, as his elder, as his trainer, and as his UNCLE, it was ultimately Luke’s responsibility to confront it– to protect Ben– to guide him THROUGH the temptation. If he had done just that, things could have been different. Ben was YOUNG. Adolescents are generally self-centered have difficulties seeing beyond that, etc– they need GUIDANCE and SUPPORT. But what did Luke do? TRY TO KILL HIM IN HIS SLEEP. (Can I just say that I really hate what the new trilogy did to Luke’s character? It’s bullshit.) Seriously? OF COURSE THAT’D MAKE THINGS WORSE. Obviously that was the last straw. And who knows what things Snoke’s been telling Ben? Luke trying to kill him may have just “confirmed” whatever Snoke’s been feeding Ben. So yes, he completely and utterly failed Ben.

Moreover, everyone deserves a CHANCE at redemption, to pay for their sins. Including Kylo. But that relies entirely on the character (and the writers)’s willingness to go down that difficult path. I’m a big fan of redemption arcs, plus I like Anakin so I feel that if Ben desires so much to emulate Darth Vader (ironic, because it was Anakin’s bondage and enslavement), it only makes even more sense for him to be saved/freed at the end too, and actually go through a redemption arc. After all, Star Wars is a story of hope.

“Ben” was 23 when he killed a school full of students. That’s mighty old for an adolescent. Also the point of the OP still stands–it was ultimately he who chose his actions, and it’s both dishonest and cowardly of him to blame Luke for it. It’s impossible for him to have a redemption of any sort while he refuses to take responsibility for his own actions.

So I’m seeing the idea floating around Reyiloverse that Rey and Kylo are going to be outcasts from the Resistance and First Order respectively because they fraternized with the enemy. I don’t know whether to laugh or feel sorry for these fans; they’re still in such deep denial about Kylo in TLJ. They can’t accept the fact that he chose evil yet again, and have to find some way to reverse his choice so as to make his arc in TLJ a consequence-free, meaningless one.

Also the idea that the Resistance will turn against Rey because she Force-skyped with Kylo? I mean, this is such a fundamental misunderstanding of not only the main characters in the Resistance but also the very nature of the central conflict. Reyluvians still seem to think their ship this is some kind of Romeo and Juliet deal, that the war against the First Order is not a fight for survival against fascism but a squabble between “two households, both alike in dignity/in a galaxy far far away, where we lay our scene.”

Needless to say, the conflict between the Resistance and the First Order is nothing like the conflict between the Capulets and the Montagues. In Romeo and Juliet the problem was the feud between the houses. No one knows or cares what the original conflict was or who is in the right. As Mercutio’s immortal–or all too mortal–line makes clear, they are morally equivalent in their destructive and unnecessary conflict.

In the sequel trilogy, on the other hand, the problem is that the First Order exists. The problem is not that there is a “feud,” it’s that the First Order is a genocidal, enslaving, conquering force that must be stopped. It is disingenuous and obtuse to apply Veronian logic to the GFFA and believe peace and reconciliation between rival factions is ultimate goal, or that “both sides” are simply petty and hateful partisans.

I mean how is this not clear to everyone? One of the FO’s former slaves is right there in the main cast. It’s truly odd and a little frightening to me that after everything so many fans choose to see the new leader of a fascist regime as the true hero of the story.

Speaking of Finn, something else I find funny: There are also discussions in this side of the fandom of the possibility that Finn will lead a Stormtrooper uprising. And you know what, it’s nice to know that despite our differences Kylostans and Finnstans alike recognize this as a good development for Finn and the story at large.

However, there doesn’t seem to be a corresponding recognition in the Reeyloverse that any uprising is going to put Kylo and Finn in direct conflict. This is perhaps because of the aforementioned speculation that Kylo will be an outcast or deposed leader. In addition, some Reyloans seem to think the Stormtrooper uprising is about Kylo, that the deleted scene from TLJ where Finn plants doubts in Stormtroopers’ minds and Phasma shoots them dead foreshadows Kylo’s future.

This reminds me of a small smattering of pre-TLJ speculation that Kylo was going to lead a Stormtrooper uprising, based on the trailer where he is shown leading Troopers in Crait. At the time even proponents admitted it was a long shot, but I have a feeling we’ll see similar theories make a revival if there’s the least whiff of an uprising happening in EPIX (honestly do it JJ). I mean because obviously Finn can’t be the center of a possible plotline based on his own traumatic background, it has to be a vehicle for Kylo’s redemption somehow.

trekmemes:

warp6:

lj-writes:

Just what level of “don’t ever fuck with us” is Starfleet? I mean I used to think Jem Hadar and Klingons being these fierce warrior races was something of an Informed Trait when they kept losing in face-to-face fights with mild-mannered Starfleet officers. But then I realized… it’s actually because Starfleet officers are just that tough.

Just how motivated and ambitious you have to be, as someone coming from a post-scarcity society, to sign up for such arduous training and potential danger? I have to wonder kind of people decide to go through years of rigorous education, constant work and travel, and the possibility of a nasty death when they are guaranteed lives without fear or want right on their home planets.

Could it be that Starfleet may, in fact, be a place for malcontents? Not the kind of small-time malcontent that turns to destruction and exploitation, but the kind of malcontent that is stifled on some level by the cushy existence of their home planet (even while being willing to die to protect it) and wants something more. Something out there and anywhere but here.

Such people are dangerous to the preexisting system unless they have an outlet for their energies. Just to name a few headliner captains, leave the James Kirks, the Jean-Luc Picards, the Kathryn Janeways, the Benjamin Siskos, the Philippa Georgious with nothing to do but enjoy life, and chances are they’d get restless. You can see their innate drive in the paths they didn’t take and in alternate universes: Picard has a brother who was perfectly content to run a vineyard at home, living a comfortable rural existence. Picard could have had that or any of a million other career paths, but he still chose the uncertainty of the stars. The 20th-century version of Benjamin Sisko had a burning ambition to write groundbreaking science fiction despite being struck down over and over again by racism. Georgiou was goddamned Emperor in the Mirror Universe, and Burnham and Lorcas wanted her throne. Clearly these are not people who can sit content and let the world be; they shift the very earth they stand on and reach for the stars any way they can.

So what do you do with world-shakers in paradise? You could choose to kill them or lock them up and “reeducate” them, but that goes against the Federation’s ideals. You could let them live free and potentially climb to the top, but they might make too many changes and disrupt the whole comfortable arrangement.

Or, you could give them a way out–infinite ways out, in fact, into space. Their boundless energy would be structured and channeled in morally acceptable directions by the strict rules and directives of Starfleet, and their ambition to be better than others and be judged by their abilities would find expression in rank and promotions.

These are, of course, the same individuals who would die to protect the Federation when it is threatened by a race of fierce warriors, a mechanical collective, or vast theocratic empire. The same people who would have felt stifled in civilian life and could have threatened the whole system become its fiercest defenders. It’s a brilliant system, really, that meets everyone’s interests and turns a society’s potential threats into its greatest assets.

I don’t think it’s any wonder, looking at these incredibly trained and driven people who can take down Klingons in single combat and engineer their way out of alternate timelines, that non-Federation worlds–and maybe more than a few Federation ones–hover somewhere between suspicious and outright terrified of the Federation’s intentions. Starfleet is one of the major reasons one can make a case for the Federation being a “soft” empire, and I can see why peoples ranging from the Ferengi to the Klingons are so suspicious of them. Because you do not ever fuck with Starfleet.

I love this! I feel like Starfleet is commonly seen in fandom as this awesome career everyone on Earth probably aspires to—after all, we all live with the constant potential for ugly death in our not-technologically-advanced-utopia world, and most of us would love the chance to do that but IN SPACE. But whenever I think about the actual reality of Trek!Earth, it’s like…if you live on Earth in the 22nd+ century you are literally guaranteed a long and healthy life. You are guaranteed to die only of (very) old age!!!

And there are probably plenty of safe skydiving/whitewater rafting/speed shuttle piloting/VR equivalent of all of the above and more outlets if you’re just an adrenaline junkie, and plenty of meaningful jobs that aren’t Starfleet, from creating art to doing research to civilian inventing/engineering to teaching…To have everything you could want as far as quality of life and safety and entertainment goes, and still choose Starfleet—to join the military-not-as-we-know-it-but-still-basically-the-peaceful-equivalent-of-a-military, to follow orders, to risk everything…yeah. It’s only certain people who are gonna want to do that.

Whenever I read a fic where Starfleet is referred to as “the service,” I think to myself, Exactly.

I love everything you pointed out about the kind of person who would do that. I think that the flip side, though, is that they also have to be (or become) the kind of person who is willing to follow orders, and give up a LOT of control over their lives, compared to the 22nd+ century general population, who (unlike us) never have to answer to a single boss if they don’t want to! I’m sure Starfleet is much more enlightened than, for instance, the modern US military when it comes to letting people leave Starfleet at will, rather than being in for a set number of years, but while you ARE in…you go where you’re assigned and do what you’re told.

And the conflict between that aspect of serving, and being, as you put it, a world-shaker, is fascinating. And something I think we do see on the show a lot. (What is the Prime Directive, after all, but Starfleet’s ultimate standing order?)

Starfleet is certainly a creation of pure brilliance.

It’s a home for the restless, the ambitious- the sort of people who are permanently dissatisfied with their lives no matter what they’re doing. In any society, you’re going to have people who aren’t content to settle down home on the farm, and who seek out the ‘big city’ instead. As Jim Kirk puts it, “Other people [have families], Bones, not us.”

Now what are you supposed to do with all that energy? Some might call it the adventurers’ instinct, but it presents itself mostly in troublemakers. They’re the people eternally unhappy with the status quo, who if left alone will find ways to destabilize entire regimes (or if less charismatic, make people feel miserable about their choice to ‘be ordinary’). But what are they to do once their society achieves paradise? Stay at home and stagnate? No, too dangerous- any one of them could become the next Khan Noonien Singh. It’s a ticking time bomb of internal conflict for a peaceful utopia.

So put them to work. There’s plenty of labor to be done in space: research, data collection, diplomacy, potential warfare. Let them be the arms and legs of the Federation, spreading the gospel of peace and prosperity with one hand, striking down its enemies with the other. Let them assimilate the entire quadrant into the Federation. (After all, assimilation IS what the Federation does, no less than the Borg, although this is one you’re more likely to survive with your personality and culture intact.)

Long story short: don’t fuck with Starfleet, home to nearly all the restless geniuses of 150 planets.

captainsaltymuyfancy:

It’s SO FUNNY (ie ironic, ie racist) that Finn is painted as being the one and only character with infatuation issues when it’s like… exactly the opposite lmao, every character who has spent extended periods of time with Finn is helplessly enamored with him, sometimes to a fault

Rose? Toxically obsessed with him, abused him when he didn’t fit her idealized version of him she had in her head. Literally infatuated.

Rey? Begged him not to leave Takodana and then had a Force vision when she felt like he abandoned her. Wanted to LAY DOWN in the snow and DIE next to Finn at Starkiller. Infatuation? Probably not but that’s some pretty extreme attachment.

And yet these assbags are like “Finn is obsessed with Rey!!!!! HashTagReyloForever!!!!!!!!” and like uhhhh no lol Finn is one of the only characters in the main cast to show healthy levels of attachment, even though his dysfunctional unbringing could easily have ruined him for relationships

When he asked Rey to go to the Outer Rim with him, she said no and he didn’t ask again and he accepted her decision and told her to take care. When faced with either blowing up Starkiller Base OR immediately rushing to save Rey, Finn chose to help Han and Chewie shut down the shields first. When faced with the option to hold on to Rey’s tracker and run with it once he got to Canto Bight, Finn chose to give the tracker to Poe and go on the mission, risking Rey’s safety and his own. Finn loves Rey but he’s not infatuated, he respects her decisions and he knows the universe doesn’t revolve around her.

Anyways, tldr, if we’re talking about infatuation amongst the main characters of the ST, Finn is like the last one yall should be concerned about, thanks

I’ve been thinking it over and like. I don’t think tlj passes the sexy lamp test. Like, no movie can say it’s feminist if not ONE of the four (4) women in it can be replaced with a sexy lamp without the plot falling apart.

thehungryvortigaunt:

lj-writes:

I’m guessing you mean ALL or ANY of the female characters could be replaced by a sexy lamp without the plot falling apart. That said, much as I dislike TLJ, I disagree. The female characters in TLJ were by and large not inert plot devices, I can say that much, though enragingly enough it’s Leia who comes closest to that description due to spending much of the movie in a coma.

My issue with the way these characters were written is that they were not given their own stories but rather made to serve the stories of male characters with a fake sheen of empowerment. Rose was there to “set Finn straight” or whatever (there are so many levels of racism and sexism in this thinking it’s dizzying), Rey to try and bring Kylo back to the light and ultimately show how far he has fallen, and Holdo and Leia to guide Poe to be a leader. The flaws and traumas of these women are made subservient to the needs of male growth and change, and in the case of Rose and Holdo especially, instead of having their own messy humanity they are Right for the Edification of Stupid Men.

I’ve heard it said that feminism is the radical notion that women are human beings. If women are not allowed their own flaws and biases but can only be omniscient and hyper-capable devices to help and teach men, then they’re not being treated as human beings. Among its many other flaws TLJ is a fake feminist story, and predictably White Feminists™ in particular are eating it up.

I find it pretty telling that some white dudes described Rey as more ‘likable’ in this film – presumably because she was treated in a more ‘conventional’ way to them…

Yeah like… none of that inconvenient anger for being tortured and having her friends killed and hurt… so convenient. I mean, likable.

Benjamin Sisko was bummed (but still supportive!) when Jake wouldn’t follow in his footsteps as a Starfleet officer. I wonder, though, did he think about his alternate 20th century self, the talented science fiction author who was ground down by racism?

Jake did follow his father’s legacy, it’s just that neither of them knew it at the time.

angryinterrobang:

For Finn I think his worst case scenario isn’t death but a ‘Winter Soldier’ situation.

That gave me chills. I also think it may have been what he was fleeing early in TFA, depending on what the “reconditioning” he was going to be subjected to looks like. I mean, per Phasma’s report I think he escaped after she told him to report to reconditioning? Dude was absolutely desperate, and given the riskiness of his plan I think he did prefer death.