I mean sure Nazis spouted socialist buzzwords for political reasons while undermining actual socialist tenets, but who cares when you can buy into and repeat propaganda that they spread to peel off leftist support (link)?
if you’re “willing to listen politely” to Nazis and white nationalists so long as they’re polite to you, you openly value decorum and your personal comfort over human lives and livelihood, and not only are you stupid, you’re a horrible person
One thing to keep in mind about nazis tho is if you run into just the right kind you have run into a gang. They will try to kill you. Dad got in a fight with one once and literally had to go to a safehouse out of town so that the nazis there didnt fucking kill him.
I hear you. Youre right. But seriously guys these people are life threatening stay safe.
in my hometown i hung out with a bunch of other white kids whose parents had been in prison or who broke the law regularly…which meant that some of them had joined skinhead gangs in prison. which meant that outside of prison, they still talked about what skinhead gangs believe, they still “networked” (in a manner of speaking) with members of skinhead gangs.
so, i heard the kind of stuff these people believed about race and politics -mostly through the mouths of their kids (most of whom grew out of thinking that shit was cool or acceptable before becoming adults; the ones that didn’t grow out of it by high school i cut off long ago). it was basically the same shit you hear from online neo-nazis and crypto-fascists, whether they’re the type who just memes about it and harasses minorities and women online, or the type who fancy themselves intellectuals and put on suits and go on CNN to “politely” argue for their point of view.
if you look at these people’s forums, they say themselves that they do the latter not because they also believe in the “free exchange of ideas” that neoliberals talk about, but because they know that they can get people in the mainstream to help them spread their propaganda by pretending to. they know that they can obfuscate what they’re trying to do by diverting the conversation to “free speech”, when a reasonable person could easily point out that much of their ~personal worldview~ comes down to pseudoscience and conspiracy theories, and having them go on political talk shows to present these ideas is the political equivalent of scientists inviting flat earthers and anti-vaxxers to their debates.
and, ultimately, the same neo-nazis who try to chameleon their way into the mainstream are the same as the ones my friends grew up around. they aren’t fucking joking when they talk about using violence to act on their ideas; as soon as they get enough other nazis in their group to do so, they go and attack POC. as soon as they gain any kind of standing in the government, they’ll use the government to attack POC. Which we already know they’ve been doing by infiltrating police forces and through their populist strong man President and administration. (Those are literally just links to google searches for those topics, to prove how incredibly easy it is to find this shit out.)
When I talk about this, the most common “rebuttal” I get is people telling me I’m making it up, but it’s the truth. My statements about neo-nazis are based not just on shit I read online, but on having met some of these people in real life. Being “willing to listen politely” to Nazis and other kinds of fascists, even on an interpersonal level, is being willing to help them spread their propaganda and gain power. It is sympathizing with and enabling the rise of fascism in 2018, and it needs to be recognized for what it is.
1000% back this but quick reminder that intelligence based insults are ableist and also inaccurate in these situations – these people aren’t so lacking in intelligence that they don’t understand what they are doing, let’s remember that
Kylo Ren really is a great example for how sci fi/fantasy writers should tailor their worlds to fit the times, so it could resonate with the actual audience reading them. There would be no point in making a Hitler villain anymore, because we’re not afraid of Hitler, we’re afraid of the 25-year-old malcontented white boy who fondles Hitler memorabilia while sulking in his room.
Somebody pointed out to me that the First Order aren’t coded as Nazis, they’re coded as neo-Nazis, which is worse, because these are people who looked at horrific historical atrocities with the benefit of hindsight and went, ‘Yes, that’s exactly what we should do again, but this time more’
People complaining that Starkiller Base is a rip-off of the Death Star and that Kylo Ren is a whiny emo fanboy don’t realize that this is exactly the point
I like the reading but a big part of me thinks that these weren’t intended. The Force Awakens came out in 2015, which means it was probably written in 2014, and frankly I don’t think Disney execs (and probably the writers) were aware of the growing threat until 2017.
The script writers for The Force Awakens are Jewish, and wrote the script in a way that really reflected Jewish views of the Nazis as opposed to normative Gentile American views, and which drew heavily on the Jewish collective memories of the Holocaust, something I discuss at length here: [Link]. The Jewish community has in fact been very aware of the rising tide of explicit white supremacy on the Right for a long time, and like many other minority communities, we were (and are) afraid and not exactly quiet about it. The only people who were really taken unawares were white gentiles, something the writers were not. I think it’s almost insulting to suggest that Jewish people writing topical Nazi and neo-Nazi coded villains is somehow unintentional.
What if the rumor is true, and Kylo Ren is not only the primary villain of EpIX, but is also bald (as he was originally in EpVIII before RJ switched gears) and starting to resemble Snoke? I don’t trust leaks, but leaks about appearance tend to be more accurate than leaks about the plot (Like, who thought that Snoke wearing a gold robe was actually true when it leaked?). (As for Finn, he’s described as resembling “a gunslinger with two blaster pistols” – believable enough. He always was a great shot).
Some fans are saying that “Baldo Ren” is far too big of a risk for LF, that they need to keep him attractive for the women or face backlash. First of all, gtfo with the “women watch Star Wars for the hot guy” bs, I mean, really? Even if we frame it as empowerment that women can ogle men and not just the other way around, Finn and Poe are right there.
JJ liked TLJ, and TLJ set up Kylo as Supreme Leader, with Rey, Finn and Poe as the future of the “light,” of freedom from oppression and defiance of a return to old ways we should never to return to.
Is keeping Kylo “hot” really the important thing here?
But then, I thought Kylo’s appearance under the mask was meant to juxtapose the fact that he’s an evil man – the most dangerous evil has an attractive face, we really should understand that in a time when hate groups intentionally present as clean-cut, “respectable” boys next door.
Now that Kylo has crossed the line by killing Han and Snoke and becoming Supreme Leader, is it really so unfathomable that his outside will start catching up to his inside?
this is better than anything I’ve seen in years about Kylo
I’m not writing the story of Star Wars.
Adam Driver is fine with or without hair.
But I have a thought about this idea.
A story with Kylo Ren who becomes like Vader, without hair like Vader, bad like
Vader, without light like Vader.
I don’t know about you, but I’ve already seen this story!
Vader has already been there and died for his son’s love.
If they want to make a different story.
Vader’s nephew must choose love and not power.
And I’m not talking about romantic love….
Romantic love helps, but…
If we want to see a different story.
The story told in the galaxies.
The history of a galaxy so far away.
It can be like the Skywalker family, the family that could have all power in
their hands, saved the universe and chose love.
Kylo has already chosen power over love repeatedly.
Here’s the difference, and why Kylo Ren is not just a rehash of Darth Vader: Vader had little power in the scheme of things. The Emperor put him in a life support suit and had him do his bidding, so not to waste that Sith energy. Vader came from nothing, was told he was the chosen one, was taken from his mother, and he eventually fell out of fear for his family.
The contrast is clear: Anakin’s fall began when his beloved mother died, triggering grief and rage. Kylo tried to force the same end by killing his father with his own hand. Completely different, and it shows that Kylo is more dangerous, because he wants it so badly, not even realizing that his grandfather lost everything and essentially became enslaved again, by the Emperor and his life support suit, when he fell to the Sith.
Kylo Ren is a fraud in comparison. There’s no Sith. It’s all him consciously striving to be a “dark lord.” Snoke could not control him (this should be undeniable fact at this point). It’s all him, no dark forces compelling him and keeping him in its service. What’s scary is the he COULD choose not to commit evil, since there was no true fall to the Sith, but he doesn’t.
It’s actually a very different and compelling story compared to the villain “choose love” scenario. And, of course, the ST DOES have a “choose love” theme that is meaningful without being all about Kylo.
Vader? They’re going for a Darth Sidious post-RotS look if that art is anywhere close.
This’d fall nicely into line with a character who’s shown to want only power. In fact of all the Star Wars character on OT and PT, Sidious is the one Kylo resembles the most.
As @lj-writes and I have spoken off elsewhere, Finn, Rey and Kylo is a replay of the dynamics between Padmé, Anakin and Palpatine. With Finn and Padmé, Rey as Anakin and Kylo as Palpatine/Sidious.
Yes, if the prior two movies made anything clear it’s that there is no Vader in the sequel trilogy. Vader is who Rey could have been if she had not withstood Kylo’s manipulation, and could yet be if Kylo decides third time’s the charm and uses more effective leverage (it’s Finn, you fool). Kylo himself is no Vader, however. He is a wannabe Vader who wants the mystique and the power surrounding him. Vader’s drive was not power, though, but love and the loss of it. Power was just something he was born with, a curse he tried to leverage to get what he truly wanted, which was to protect Padmé. It was Palpatine, Vader’s abuser and master, who wanted power.
CW discussions of Nazis and neo-Nazis below.
This is another reason Kylo is a neo-Nazi analogue rather than a Nazi analogue. The Nazis at least emulated the German Empire, which was all kinds of evil but had actual achievements as a state like the unification of Germany and the creation of the modern German state. The neo-Nazis on the other hand looked at the Nazis’ lost war that devastated Europe, the gruesome industrialized genocide, and decided that’s what they wanted to be. Kylo similarly looked at the Galactic Empire’s genocide of his mother’s people, Vader’s mass murder of children and the torture of both Han and Leia, and decided that was what he wanted. Neo-Nazis are malcontent assholes who think throwing out repugnant keywords and gestures make them Nazis as opposed to the brutal efficiency of the German state machine the Nazis inherited from the German Empire. Similarly, Kylo Ren is such a try-hard poseur that he wore a mask he never needed and artificially created bereavement for himself, copying Vader’s trappings without the faintest idea of what Vader stood for or what made the man tick. Kylo Ren, like all neo-Nazis, is a cosplayer gone horribly wrong.
The fact that they’re laughable fakes doesn’t make neo-Nazis or Kylo any less dangerous, obviously. In fact it makes them more dangerous because their starting point was not to emulate greatness but to emulate evil. The Galactic Empire and the Nazis alike should have served as warnings, but instead they inspired copycats in the worst people.
Kylo Ren is no heir to the Skywalker legacy, not even Darth Vader’s. He is the heir to Palpatine. It’s up to Rey, Finn, and Poe to reclaim the Skywalker legacy, including the shadow and warning of Vader’s choices, and defeat fascism as Luke, Leia, Han, and Anakin did before them. That’s what makes it the Skywalker Saga, because it interrogates the true meaning of what it means to be a Skywalker. Is it blood or is it the choices people make? To make Kylo out to be the hero because of blood while disregarding the choices he has made would be to reaffirm the very blood supremacy Kylo Ren and his repulsive real-life counterparts espouse.
Kylo Ren really is a great example for how sci fi/fantasy writers should tailor their worlds to fit the times, so it could resonate with the actual audience reading them. There would be no point in making a Hitler villain anymore, because we’re not afraid of Hitler, we’re afraid of the 25-year-old malcontented white boy who fondles Hitler memorabilia while sulking in his room.
Somebody pointed out to me that the First Order aren’t coded as Nazis, they’re coded as neo-Nazis, which is worse, because these are people who looked at horrific historical atrocities with the benefit of hindsight and went, ‘Yes, that’s exactly what we should do again, but this time more’
People complaining that Starkiller Base is a rip-off of the Death Star and that Kylo Ren is a whiny emo fanboy don’t realize that this is exactly the point
I like the reading but a big part of me thinks that these weren’t intended. The Force Awakens came out in 2015, which means it was probably written in 2014, and frankly I don’t think Disney execs (and probably the writers) were aware of the growing threat until 2017.
The script writers for The Force Awakens are Jewish, and wrote the script in a way that really reflected Jewish views of the Nazis as opposed to normative Gentile American views, and which drew heavily on the Jewish collective memories of the Holocaust, something I discuss at length here: [Link]. The Jewish community has in fact been very aware of the rising tide of explicit white supremacy on the Right for a long time, and like many other minority communities, we were (and are) afraid and not exactly quiet about it. The only people who were really taken unawares were white gentiles, something the writers were not. I think it’s almost insulting to suggest that Jewish people writing topical Nazi and neo-Nazi coded villains is somehow unintentional.
L.J.'s Obsessions 