If Kylo Ren gets a Vader-like redemption, only Rey and his family will forgive him. And he will die. If Reylo happens at all it will be for like five seconds before Kylo kicks the bucket and Rey gets over him super quick. But Kylo already killed Snoke. Who exactly is he going to throw down a shaft? Hux? Hux is Kylo’s subordinate and not a Force user. There is no way that could play out the same way as Vader defying Palps because Kylo can’t defy someone who serves him and not vice versa.

themandalorianwolf:

Now I’m not for a Kylo redemption personally. I’m more in the let him rot away in jail cut away from the force like Ozai or have him on the run as a wanted fugitive. Nevertheless, one thing I’ll never understand is why does everyone put Reylow and Kylo redemption in the same spot? cousins, siblings, former classmates, or party members in a Fortnite match, nothing is going to change the fact that Kylo and Rey aren’t friends or even close. At this point its clear as day that Finn and Rey are in love with each other and they’re both going to be fighting against Kylo.

Regardless of if Kylo lives, dies, goes into exile or prison, Kylo and Rey will never be anything other than enemies.

God tier is if Finn does turn out to be a Force Void, and after Rey distracts Ren by fighting him to a standstill Finn and Ghost Luke move in to cut Kylo’s ties to the Force, giving him an Ozai ending of powerlessness and jail. If Finn can invert his Force Void and project it on others he would have the raw power to neutralize Kylo’s threat permanently. Luke, who did it to himself in life, has the experience to guide Finn.

Afterward Kylo tries to throw his Force powers around like he’s used to, and imagine how ridiculous he would look–he reaches out at Finn to strangle him and nothing happens. He tries to snatch Rey’s lightsaber and it doesn’t even rattle. He tries to mind-trick the Poe, and at Poe’s order the Resistance tackle the Supreme Leader, cuffing him. (Bonus points if they can work in Leia watching sadly but impassively, maybe by screen.) Ren has an epic meltdown as he’s arrested and we all see him for the ridiculous manchild he is without making him some tragic martyr figure, in-universe or in the real world.

Finn going from unconsciously defending himself with his Force immunity to projecting it outward, btw, would also be a neat parallel to his character arc from being focused on protecting himself and those in his immediate sphere to making changes in the universe at large. If he is a Force Void it’s likely to be his innate powers responding to trauma and danger, so of course its first application would be to shield and defend himself. As he realizes he cannot be free without others and his sphere of protection expands, so the Force Void itself would turn outward and would ultimately reach the level of actively taking out threats.

So basically Rey is Zuko in this scenario who was tortured and mindfucked by Ozai before she defies and leaves him, but refuses to kill him despite having a clear chance because she sees it’s not her path. Ghost Luke is the Lion Turtle, a supernatural font of ancient lost wisdom who knows the source of all power and knows how to cut it off. Finn is Aang, brought up to be an emotionless fighting machine before he runs away, bearer of a unique power that earned him the Big Bad’s undying enmity before he learns the ancient knowledge and neuters the villain without killing him. It would be like the Avatar finale except better foreshadowed and more organically intertwined in the protagonist’s arc.

(And then we end IX with a great big Zukaang kiss, hopefully.)

Do you wish that deleted TFA scene of Finn and the villagers on Jakku made it in the movie?

jewishcomeradebot:

themandalorianwolf:

jewishcomeradebot:

themandalorianwolf:

The scene that shows him spare a Jakku villager? Yup, I do. It’s one of my favorite scenes in SW because it actually displays the horrors of war on a ground level, something the films usually shy away from…and still do.

Hell I wish the deleted snow chase was kept in.

It shows the weaknesses of both Finn and Rey. Finn isn’t a great driver and Rey isn’t a great shot, so they switch places to take down their peruses. Its a great display of team and it shows that both characters have their strengths and weaknesses. The cut that got put out favors more on Rey’s strengths while also showing more of Finn’s weaknesses and honestly its why I still do take some issues with TFA, even though I love it.

The deleted scenes show though that JJ really does understand Finn and Rey, so I got faith for IX to show more of the morally complexity of Finn and more of his strengths.

I’ll be forever miffed that the scene with Finn and the villager was cut. But at least Force of Destiny made the second scene canon after a fashion.

My guess is time and some tone bull shit that Disney didn’t want to do.

That random chase scene with Han solo’s hentai monster is pretty much the longest and pointless scene in TFA that I could honestly say it never should have made it in the film.

I don’t agree that the hentai monster chase is pointless. For one thing it has a crucial step in the development of the relationship between Finn and Rey, a moment where she reaches for him for help and comfort as they’re faced with the rathtars.

We’re presented with Rey as someone who’s both uncomfortable with physical intimacy and who relies on no one but herself to look after her. First change in their relationship is when she gives Finn her hand after he asks her if she’s okay. Next step happens during the rathtar chase where she’s reaching for him, wordlessly asking for help and comfort. A significant change in the character and part of the build up the confession scene where she asks Finn to stay with her after he tells her the truth about himself.

The second important part about the rathtar chase is that it directly parallels Finn’s scene during the fight on Takodana where he sees Rey kidnapped. In both scenes one sees the other grabbed and carted off by a monster and in panicked fashion chases after them, even if they have no chance in hell of defeating said monster at that moment. And both parties have to get a bit creative in their rescue attempts as a result.

Seriously, Rey’s panicked “Finn!” as he’s grabbed and pulled away is a great parallel to Finn yelling “Rey!” as he rushes across the battlefield when he sees Kylo has snatched her. The deliberate mirroring in these two scenes is yet another build up of how much these two come to care for each other over very short time and it heavily underlines that Finn is as important to Rey as Rey is to Finn.

Could these points have been delivered better? Yes. And the scene is definitely overly long I agree on that. In fact, trimming it down would have delivered those points better.

But I dispute that it is pointless and I actually will defend the hentai monster chase scene’s right to exist in the movie.

Mara and I both did gifs comparing those two scenes (link, link), and the parallels were quite deliberate. For one thing, there was no earthly reason to tilt the screen so Finn would be dragged diagonally upward…

Much like Rey was carried up a ramp by the monster who stalked and snatched her.

The first shot was far too fast to make the point effectively, though, a complaint I have with much of the movie especially in scenes involving Finn. Like Mara said, the hentai monster wasn’t the best way to achieve story ends. It was also part of another overly long diversion. It is not one of those scenes that could have been cut without doing harm, though. If anything it should have been replaced with something better.

imgoingtocrash:

Rogue One: A Star Wars Story // Star Wars Battlefront II: Resurrection

↳ Galen and Jyn & Iden and Zay

themandalorianwolf:

Han & Luke Parallels with their children

themandalorianwolf:

I also loved the relationship between Han and Finn. The most underrated one in the ST.

I’ve never seen JJ say Finn is based on Moses. That would be different. I’ve Only seen prince of Egypt aus which seemed inappropriate.

opisrussianonmain:

themandalorianwolf:

lj-writes:

JJ didn’t say so, but the parallels are unmistakeable and blatant (link). I’m not in a place to judge whether a PoE Finn AU is appropriate, but if the ones doing it aren’t Jewish themselves I wish they wouldn’t. It would be so much better to carry forward the common themes in Finn’s and Moses’s stories to tell Finn’s own awesome story.

I personally don’t think SW characters should be written in AU’s about religious figures. That’s just asking for trouble.

But I don’t see anything wrong with people drawing Parallels and metaphors in their stories about Finn being the Moses of Star Wars. Jesus Parallels have been used by movies for decades. Anakin has been called space Jesus for years due to his conception.

If a Stormtrooper rebellion happens, Finn is metaphorically space Moses.

If you ask me then TFA is a Prince of Egypt AU, just done GFFA style.

As for the Stormtrooper rebellion being necessary to finalize that I have to disagree. For one thing it’s an “AU”, it is so to speak “based on Exodus” but it isn’t Exodus. And Finn isn’t Moses, he’s a Moses analogy.

Furthermore it depends on who the story decides to frame as Finn’s people.

Remember Moses’ story?

Moses’ mother contrives to hide him so that he’ll survive Pharaoh’s edict to kill all male Israelite children and he ends up being found by the Pharaoh’s daughter. Now we don’t know how or when Finn ended up in the First Order, but given that he has no memory of his family and that the FO literally have baby pictures of him it’s a good bet her was tiny indeed, possibly an infant. Like Moses.

Then Moses (Finn) is raised in the house of Pharaoh (First Order) among Egyptians (Stormtroopers) but he’s not one of them and deep down knows he never will be.

And remember why Moses turns against the house of Pharaoh and have to flee in the first place? He watches as an Egyptian (Stormtrooper) strikes down an Israelite, one of his own people. He ends up killing the Egyptian, his crime is discovered and he has to flee into the desert.

You know, kinda like Finn reject the First Order with the massacre of Tuanul when the Stormtroopers slaughters the villagers. He refuses to participate and his “crime” – from an FO pov at least – is discovered and he has to flee and ends up in the desert. Where he meets this girl, like Moses met

Zipporah.

Furthermore when G-d wants Moses to be his chosen and free his people Moses at first refuses and argues with G-d about his choice. Again kinda like Finn tells Maz nope when she says that they all have to fight the First Order. (Which makes JJ’s stand in for G-d in this universe a Black woman, albeit one in alien makeup.)

So who is Finn’s people? The Stormtroopers? Or maybe its the Force worshipers? Or maybe the story will tell us its a bit of both, one does not preclude the other and when the Israelites left Egypt, several Egyptians went them.

And really it fits with many of the other characters too.

Rey is a mix of

Zipporah, Miriam and Aaron. Snoke is the original Pharaoh and Kylo Ren the one who starts as the heir to the throne, but eventually becomes Pharaoh himself and the main antagonist in the story. (This last but is why I always thought the narrative would end up doing away with Snoke one way or another and have Kylo take the reins of power fully.)

No it’s not a one to one translation anymore than Anakin was was a one to one translation of Jesus, but both stories are clearly inspired. Anakin’s story was a Messiah narrative as is so common among fantasy stories – scifi too – told by white Christians. Finn’s story on the other hand, and I still hold out hope all of the ST as envisioned by JJ – is based on Moses’ story.

Do I still want a Stormtrooper rebellion or for the story to do something with the Stormtroopers by and large apart from using them as cannon fodder? Yes, because it reframed them with the little we have of Finn’s background story, but I’ll would venture that a Stormtropper rebellion isn’t necessary for Finn to be the in-universe equivalent on Moses, nor Finn’s story be based on Moses. It already is and much depends on who the story decides to frame as Finn’s people.

This is where I find @lj-writes‘s theory about Finn possibly being from Jakku and at least being the child of a Force worshiping group interesting, it would add yet another layer as to why Finn reacted so strongly to the assault and massacre. Moral decency and the fact that he’s the male, heroic lead of the story is more than enough to warrant his reaction, but it does not therefore follow that there was never meant to be anything more to it than that.

Fandom’s main excuse for hating on Finn is basically “op literally killed the Egyptian for striking the Jewish slave but go off I guess,” with healthy doses of both sides are wrong uwu violence is bad uwu uwu. It’s funny how an enslaved soldier refusing to kill unarmed prisoners, escaping to freedom, and defending himself and others from imminent death raises more ire than the slavery and genocide he was running from and defending others from.

The First Order claims to have trained Finn from birth, according to the Visual Dictionary page that you excerpted, which leads me to wonder if he was taken very shortly after birth (like Moses) or actually born in captivity (also like Moses, who was born in slavery). I firmly believe the deleted scene where Finn lets the woman in Tuanul go (link) was meant to be a callback to Finn’s own kidnapping, at least in the sense of him wondering if this was how he was torn from his family. The woman seems to be holding a baby, from the way she clutches the bundle closer rather than drop it in her fright. It’s probably a deliberate choice to cast her as a Black woman, too.

Also does this mean the lightsaber is the burning bush? XD Finn and especially Rey are afraid of/refuse the lightsaber at first before they embrace its power. Y’know, the divine fire that burns without consuming its source…

Kylo Ren is like the Rameses character from the PoE adaptation, I think, minus the personal rapport with the male protagonist. Though he had no real relationship with Finn, there was something that passed between him and Finn at the village. Kylo also fixated on Finn and took the “betrayal” very personally in a way Snoke and even Hux were never shown to.

The PoE Rameses-Moses connection has a stronger parallel in Kylo Ren and Rey, in no small part because RJ could give a rat’s ass about Finn and his story, but it is a continuation and intensification of Moses’s story being split between Finn and Rey. Even in TFA, Kylo Ren wanted to destroy Finn but wanted Rey to join him. (In TLJ he evidently forgot Finn exists, much like RJ did.) They share an actual connection in TLJ where he further works her over, building rapport while isolating and manipulating her, all to convince her to join his side much as Rameses dreamed of ruling with Moses by his side. Kylo then becomes the successor to the original ruler, the one who had the perfect chance to end the destructive policies of his predecessor and was urged by Rey to do so, but ultimately refused and tried to kill her instead.

When Kylo was gazing up at Rey and she literally shut the door on their connection, it was a bit like that last moment between Rameses and Moses in PoE when Rameses (also on his knees, defeated and vulnerable, realizing that the link to his father has slipped between his fingers) screams Moses’s name in rage and loss while Moses looked across the divide to say a silent farewell. It’s not as wrenching in TLJ because the bond between Kylo and Rey was false on many levels and Rey feels so little for Kylo at this point, but the moment is still there where the bond is broken for good, or acknowledged as broken.

Coming back to Tuanul/the Church of the Force possibly being tied to Finn’s origins, it’s been pointed out that Finn may have awakened in the Force on Tuanul. My variation on that theory is that he is Force immune and Kylo Ren sensed this in the ruins of Tuanul (link), which Moth and @themandalorianwolf speculated as Finn being a wound in the Force like the Exile in KOTOR 2 (link). There’s also the fact that Jakku has all kinds of lore tied into it, as you pointed out re the Wadi Rum shooting location (link).

I mean if Finn is Force immune or otherwise Force sensitive as a result of trauma like the Exile, being in the middle of a massacre like one he may have experienced as a baby would be enough to activate those abilities. For me God tier is Finn being a descendant of Jedhan refugees who were Church of the Force members in the disapora. Mega Ultra God tier is Rose also being from the Jedhan diaspora. I know, I know, there are no confirmed links, but that’s a whole another tinfoil hat rant that is way off topic and will be in a separate post (link).