The flirty Latino stereotype of Poe can die a fiery death. There’s nothing about Poe to support such a portrayal and yet it’s incredibly common.
He’s only ever flirted with Finn, but that’s not saying anything. Y’all seen Rey when she first met Finn? Her thirst got me thirsty. Rose? She couldn’t handle herself either. The idea shouldn’t be “Poe is flirty” the idea should be “Finn turns everyone into thots”
Mm? That was not my intention at all, I wasn’t saying Poe had to be the hero but rather pointing out how the plot as it happened required he not be there for large chunks of it. As @jewishcomeradebot pointed out in her addition Poe was pretty much Leia plot-wise, the character who knows his way around the military and intelligence side of things. Much like Leia, Poe’s having more screen time would not have detracted from the other leads.
Poe being in the trio would not have been a bad thing. Finn and Rey were always the co-protagonist and each other’s love interest. The fear that Doomreys will marginalize Finn is a true fear, but that’s the same white washing racism, even though Oscar is Latino, as reylow.
The fear that if Rose and Poe are around Finn and Rey, then Finn or Rey would disappear from the other’s lives is stupid. JJ knows what he wants and what he’s doing, for the most part at least.
Beyond the fact most Poe fans, and even potentially Oscar, if he wasn’t joking, headcanon Poe as gay, I think most fans would be fine.
There’s a difference between having our trio be together vs Doomrey racists erasing Finn
Episode IX will probably have them together more.
Finn and Poe best friends, Finn and Rey are romantically interested in each other, and Rey, Rose, and Poe will all be friends as well if JJ does it right.
[Finn] had no clue that Poe would want to go back to Jakku and probably assumed Poe would go directly to the Resistance base…
Because yes, this is exactly what Finn would expect to happen when he sat down and planned his escape. That Poe flies directly (or maybe in a circuitous route) back to the Resistance.
Which would mean what precisely?
That Finn isn’t just trying to escape, but defect? Which puts the first reason he gives Poe “It’s the right thing to do” in a bit of a new light, he’s trying to sell himself as a potential Resistance fighter?
Does Finn expects to be taken as a prisoner of war, being an enemy soldier and all.
Obviously things does not go the way Finn expected them to and he had ample time during his trek through Jakku’s desert to rethink his plan and come up with a new one which was “get as far away from the First Order as possible”.
Sensible one too, but thinking about it I doubt it would be his initial one. Unless he thought he could talk Poe into dropping him off somewhere en route. But he’d also know that he would not be able to count on that, that he in a very likely scenario would end up in the hands of the Resistance and/or the Republic.
What did he think would happen to him then?
I don’t think he was thinking that far, at least at that very urgent moment. He talked about getting out of the system altogether, and not about the destination. That was the first thing on his mind, getting away from the First Order rather than to anywhere. Given his later actions I think it’s probable that he wanted to be dropped off and to keep going all the way to the Outer Rim. He also proved to be eminently persuadable on this point, however.
That’s why it’s interesting to think what might have happened if Finn and Poe had not been separated and Poe had tried to talk him into staying with the Resistance, or at least being thoroughly debriefed before he moved on. Poe would not have pulled a Rose and forced Finn to stay, and like Han he’d have understood and sympathized with Finn’s desire to get away. But Poe is also a Resistance fighter, and a spy. Imagine him telling Finn that he can make a difference:
“Buddy, I feel you. Getting away from those guys was good for my health and longevity and I’m guessing it’ll be good for yours, too. You did me and the Resistance a solid, and I’ll fight anyone who blames you for wanting to go. But before that, could you hear me out? You’re smart guy, Finn, and you’re right: if it’s one person alone against the First Order it’s either run or die. But if you’re with other people there’s a third choice: Fight back, together. You don’t have to be alone anymore.”
I remember reading a meta that said Finn was running largely out of despair, because he thought there was no fighting back against the First Order. If Poe, someone who had been doing exactly that, had talked to him? Who knows.
The thing is, there’s definitely a time gap between Finn coming back with the assault ship from Tuanul and him rescuing Poe. Enough that he can change his armor and get evaluated.
We don’t know how much time this is but it’ll be some and I think even as he faces Phasma in that corridor he knows he has to get out. I’m not saying that he has a huge, carefully mapped out plan for what happens, but honestly he’d have some expectations of what would happen if he puts himself into the hands of the Resistance. Clearly it is a preferable option to what will happen in the First Order which is likely either execution or some version of what we see happen to Terex in the Poe comic.
Oh, I completely agree he had planned for multiple contingencies–which, by necessity, could only be contingencies. I think his first preference would have been to be dropped off, but I don’t think he dared hope that he would be allowed to leave. He had never been allowed that kind of freedom and Poe controlled their escape craft, after all. That would have been the first shock for him, if he had made the request and Poe completely respected his wishes, leaving it up to him whether to stay or go. This was why Rose’s reaction to his leaving was so shitty for his arc, needless to say.
Returning to the branching point of the op and what Finn thought beforehand, though, I imagine he was braced for a lot of things. He has zero experience with a military (or paramilitary in this case) that does not rely on intimidation and indoctrination but on freely given consent, and while he might know the Resistance is different he may also have a hard time imagining it. Was he going to be locked up for the rest of the war? Pressed into service? Forced to give up whatever intel he had, with extra “encouragement” because how could they trust him?
When you think about it, effectively putting himself in Poe’s hands was not only a risk but a giant leap of faith. It also showed how desperate he was to leave.
Poe was taken out of the story early on in The Force Awakens precisely because as a
seasoned Resistance operative his presence would have solved a lot of
problems that Finn and Rey ran into. First meeting with BB-8? Joyous
occasion, no misunderstanding. Recognizes the Millennium Falcon and
runs toward it while Finn and Rey follow, wondering what the Resistance guy is on. Aerial chase would have been over in
seconds with Poe and Rey co-piloting and Finn on the gun. Would have smoothed things over
with Han. Probably would have found a clever way to foil the space gangs because he’s had plenty of run-ins with criminal types. Would have taken them all to D’Qar right away. No battle of
Takodana. Half the movie’s runtime was the characters scrambling to deal
with the lack of Poe when you think about it.
[Finn] had no clue that Poe would want to go back to Jakku and probably assumed Poe would go directly to the Resistance base…
Because yes, this is exactly what Finn would expect to happen when he sat down and planned his escape. That Poe flies directly (or maybe in a circuitous route) back to the Resistance.
Which would mean what precisely?
That Finn isn’t just trying to escape, but defect? Which puts the first reason he gives Poe “It’s the right thing to do” in a bit of a new light, he’s trying to sell himself as a potential Resistance fighter?
Does Finn expects to be taken as a prisoner of war, being an enemy soldier and all.
Obviously things does not go the way Finn expected them to and he had ample time during his trek through Jakku’s desert to rethink his plan and come up with a new one which was “get as far away from the First Order as possible”.
Sensible one too, but thinking about it I doubt it would be his initial one. Unless he thought he could talk Poe into dropping him off somewhere en route. But he’d also know that he would not be able to count on that, that he in a very likely scenario would end up in the hands of the Resistance and/or the Republic.
What did he think would happen to him then?
I don’t think he was thinking that far, at least at that very urgent moment. He talked about getting out of the system altogether, and not about the destination. That was the first thing on his mind, getting away from the First Order rather than to anywhere. Given his later actions I think it’s probable that he wanted to be dropped off and to keep going all the way to the Outer Rim. He also proved to be eminently persuadable on this point, however.
That’s why it’s interesting to think what might have happened if Finn and Poe had not been separated and Poe had tried to talk him into staying with the Resistance, or at least being thoroughly debriefed before he moved on. Poe would not have pulled a Rose and forced Finn to stay, and like Han he’d have understood and sympathized with Finn’s desire to get away. But Poe is also a Resistance fighter, and a spy. Imagine him telling Finn that he can make a difference:
“Buddy, I feel you. Getting away from those guys was good for my health and longevity and I’m guessing it’ll be good for yours, too. You did me and the Resistance a solid, and I’ll fight anyone who blames you for wanting to go. But before that, could you hear me out? You’re smart guy, Finn, and you’re right: if it’s one person alone against the First Order it’s either run or die. But if you’re with other people there’s a third choice: Fight back, together. You don’t have to be alone anymore.”
I remember reading a meta that said Finn was running largely out of despair, because he thought there was no fighting back against the First Order. If Poe, someone who had been doing exactly that, had talked to him? Who knows.
In one of his memorable last lines in The Last Jedi, Luke Skywalker contradicted Kylo Ren to say “The Rebellion is reborn today” and “The war is just beginning.” John Boyega predicted that Episode IX would be about war as well, saying:
“I think Episode IX you know, regardless of where the story goes, and I haven’t read it by the way, is going to be all-out war …”
This grand vision is somewhat belied by the reality at the end of TLJ, however. The entire remainder of the Resistance fits on the Millennium Falcon, and its calls for help to its Outer Rim allies were evidently ignored. The main First Order fleet may also have taken a blow from Holdo’s suicide attack, but even just the ground forces portion of its remainder is considerable. We also know that it has troops elsewhere with which it is tightening its grip on the galaxy.
So how can there be all-out war between two such asymmetrical forces? One possibility is guerilla warfare, perhaps with the Resistance operating out of mobile headquarters since having a stationary one didn’t work out so well for them. They can harass the First Order, strike at its supply lines, rally support in the populace, conduct sabotage missions. This is how badly outnumbered and outgunned forces have fought for millennia, after all.
Guerilla warfare by itself is not enough, however, to be described as “all-out war.” It’s not enough to topple the First Order, either, and that is the Resistance’s goal especially if Luke, Holdo, Finn etc. are right and they are resurrecting the Rebellion. A rebellion as I understand it doesn’t just seek to weaken and undermine the enemy, it seeks to replace the enemy government. Nibbling around the edges of the First Order’s domination of the galaxy might be fine for Leia’s barely-sanctioned militia, but a full rebellion against the First Order needs to have the means to unseat it and defend territory from it. Leia implies that necessity herself in the Poe Dameron comic:
What are the sources of the troops and materiel the Resistance/Rebellion might have? Here are a few I can think of.
Resistance forces and allies elsewhere
It appears that the Resistance did not put all its eggs in one basket and there are others who were not in Leia’s fleet that ran from the First Order. Black Squadron, for instance, was on a mission to the Outer Rim to gain support from allies. The one mission that we know about from the partial transmission in the comic is a failure and the radio silence in response to the Resistance’s distress call implies they may have not met with resounding success, but there is a chance the Squadron itself survived.
Zay and Shriv from the Battleront II single-player DLC were similarly dispatched to the Outer Rim to contact the Resistance’s allies. They may well come back with allies of their own, though this did not come to pass at the end of TLJ. Have the Outer Rim allies really foresaken the Resistance, or was something else going on?
Lando Calrissian
Lando’s return in Episode IX may mean a significant boost in the Resistance’s forces, too. Lando was a General during the last war, the Administrator of a city, and the owner of Calrissian Enterprises, a huge droid manufacturer. His wealth and resources, coupled with his war experience and the security forces he himself must command, make his return a hopeful development for the Resistance/Rebellion. Since his base of Cloud City on Bespin is located in the Outer Rim, he may well have been one of the allies Leia dispatched people to contact.
A droid army
The droid manufacturing capacity of Calrissian Enterprises could additionally mean the manufacture of combat droids to augment the Resistance against The First Order. We saw droids fighting armored troopers before in the prequel movies and The Clone Wars. Could we be seeing a reprise, only this time we’re meant to root for the droids?
Droids aren’t just cannon fodder but also excellent sources of information, as C3PO’s plot in the Poe Dameron comics showed. C3PO had an extensive droid spy network, something that was on Leia’s to-do list to revive in The Last Jedi novelization. It remains to be seen whether droids will play a greater role in the war.
The New Republic
We know that the
New Republic is in shambles after the destruction of the Hosnia system,
but by the time of Episode IX they will have at least begun to regroup.
If the New Republic’s military were to join forces with the Resistance,
as seems likely, we will see a significant boost in the Resistance’s
numbers. They should also, in my opinion, be called not “Resistance” or “Rebellion” but Republic forces. Such a change also brings potential for cultural clashes and mutual
resentments, something that may have begun to be explored in TLJ
but didn’t really go anywhere.
If Leia plays a leadership role in the New Republic again because they come to their senses in the crisis and realizes they need her, then we’ll see her lead the charge on this end. This seems a likely path for her character to take, since the footage cut from TFA that will be used in Episode IX is likely to pertain to the New Republic’s political situation, like the deleted scene with her aide Korr Sella.
People around the galaxy
Finn’s conviction that people around the galaxy would rise up against the First Order may not have been borne out on Crait, but was validated by the final scene of The Last Jedi when it was shown that people throughout the galaxy are sharing and taking heart in the story of the Resistance and the Jedi. Over time this hope may become a groundswell of support for the Resistance.
Stormtroopers Insurgent Free Troopers
This is my personal fondest hope of all, that Finn inspire other kidnapped and brainwashed Stormtroopers to rise up as he did. He has already gone twice into the heart of the First Order and escaped, showing that this group not invincible–they’re kind of pathetic, in fact.
Speaking of pathetic, the new Supreme Leader of the First Order is this dude:
Kylo Ren, a man who has a lot of raw power but zero self-restraint or dignity, who is skeptical of the entire Stormtrooper program (but not of slavery itself–he brought up clone troopers in TFA), and who very publicly made a fool of himself on Crait in front of his army.
It seems likely that Finn’s exploits, together with disappointment in Kylo Ren and his leadership, will lead at least some Stormtroopers to be disillusioned with the First Order. They could fill out the Resistance’s ranks or at least drop out of the fighting altogether, making the numerical disadvantage less overwhelming.
As one anon has pointed out (link), combined with the droid army idea above, it’s possible that we could see Free Troopers and droids working together in another inversion of the prequel trilogy/The Clone Wars dynamics when they were pitted against each other.
Such cooperation would be all the more poignant because, with the recent canon incorporating a droid liberation plotline, the Free Troopers and the droids would share a liberation narrative. And if the new Star Wars canon gives a liberation plot to the droids but ignores the Stormtroopers then man, fuck Star Wars.
In conclusion
Though the ending of TLJ is very bleak in terms of its prospects for the fight against the First Order, the Resistance has a lot of untapped resources. Episode IX could show these allies coming together to destroy the First Order and, eventually, start the hard work of rebuilding.
One problem I had with the art design in TFA is that everything just looked like an iPod to the OT’s Macintosh 2. I wanted to design a ship for Poe that makes sense with his new role of super-spy. This wall-watcher works when landing on walls or roofs, and can amplify and record the sound on the other side of the surface. The ship also has a weak cloaking device, which changes color but doesn’t become invisible. The cockpit is kind of fancy and fits Poe, BB-8 and potentially two guests (Ben in the first movie). It’s design would allow for different combat scenes, as it works more by hiding and striking quickly rather than outright firepower exchange. (Moth)
“Kylo is bad because he had to share his parents with the resistance.”
“Kylo is bad because he was brainwashed and forced to join an evil organization.”
“Kylo is bad because he was neglected and had a bad childhood.”
glowy brain: “Kylo isn’t bad”
quasar group brain: switching meme formats in the middle
Which meme image is: Kylo is bad because a creepy old dude had been psychicly grooming him since he was a kid and every adult in his life either abandoned him or actively turned on him for it?
his dad tried to get him to come home and he stabbed him you fucking moron asfgssggfdubvfy
Calm down son, its a joke not a dick, no need to jump on it so hard.
Nice of you to admit that blaming other character for Kylo’s shitty choices is a joke
(From the start of Chapter 8 in the TLJ novelization)
The TLJ novelization continues to have these little irritating moments. Why would Leia be a mentor to Kes OR Shara? They were similar in age, I think Kes and Shara might actually have been older, and Shara partook in missions along with both Luke and Leia. They outranked her and she took orders from them, certainly, but that’s a far cry from being a “mentor.”
Rey: Hi, I’m Rey, Finn’s g– other best friend! It’s so good to meet you! Glad you’re alive, Finn thought you were dead. Um I have to go real quick to find Luke but please tell me if Finn wakes up!
*later*
Poe: oh hey that girl is here I should tell her Finn’s alive
Rey: Hi! I’m Rey.
Poe: Um… I know, we met like yesterday. I’m Poe.
Rey: I’m so sorry! I think some of my memories got overwritten by the image of shirtless Kylo Ren burned in my brain. I remember you now!
Poe: Wait you saw Kylo Ren shirtless?
Rey: It’s even worse than you can imagine.
Poe: [grimacing] I don’t know, I can imagine quite a bit. By the way, Finn’s alive.
L.J.'s Obsessions 