leg-grestrade:

Finn Meta Week Day 3: Finn’s FOIL – Poe Dameron

I think that I prefer to think about a foil not as someone who is in natural opposition, like a Harry v. Draco, but people who are similar with a noted or a few noted differences. One of my favorite literary foils is Elinor Dashwood and her sister Marianne. Elinor is steady, stable, sort of long-suffering. Marianne is sunny, lighthearted, is fine with taking chances. They are not enemies – they love each other very much – but despite being born to the same parents and having the same upbringing, they are very different women.

So with that in mind, this is why I think Finn’s foil is Poe Dameron.

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themandalorianwolf:

So this bull shit

Poe’s relationship to the Skywalkers:

Gets the map to Luke Skywalker

Tortured by a former Skywalker relative

He’s been working with a Skywalker for years and she’s his mentor!

Finn’s relationship with the Skywalker’s

Worked in the same organization as a Skywalker relative

Worked alongside 2 Skywalker relatives (Han and Leia)

Kylo, a Skywalker relative, is his arch enemy and foil.

Bonus

Finn’s best friend/love interest is the daughter student of Luke Skywalker.

Poe has been working with Leia for years, she’s his mentor.

Finn literally has a relationship with almost all of the Skywalkers, fought with their lightsaber, and started the entire plot of TFA.

This is bull shit that after 4 years Finn and Poe, but especially Finn, have to fight for their relevance in this damn franchise.

Fuck You, Russell Walker.

Finn was also the only character who argued that the Resistance had to go out and help Luke Skywalker against the entire fucking First Order military. You know, despite never having met the guy? It wasn’t the best idea but as Will Smith memorably said, he’s got the spirit.

Leia explicitly passed on her legacy to Poe, just as Luke passed his to Rey. And when Luke gives his “The Rebellion is reborn today” speech–setting aside whether it’s an earned moment–it’s Finn who comes up in the “war is just beginning” line.

Finn has Han’s legacy, part of it. One of the forgotten and downtrodden of the galaxy, the weary and traumatized renegade who very understandably wanted out of the fight and to get what little safety he could for himself, who ultimately came back to the fight because that was the right thing to do.

But Finn goes even beyond that. He was willing to stake his life in people around the galaxy rising up and coming to the Resistance’s aid. He was willing to give himself so there might be a tomorrow. He is the leader and symbol of the antifascist uprising that will come, that must come if there is to be any kind of future. He is the one who will tear apart the First Order’s lies. He is the man Supreme Leader Ren should fear the most, if he has any sense at all (a highly debatable point). Rose saved Finn at the risk of the entire remaining Resistance because she saw him as the hope for the future, mangled and marred as the message was.

And Supreme Butthead? He gets Jack Schitt. He gets Vader, at best, if he finally makes the right choice for once. If he does he may choose a sacrificial death that can never make up for the magnitude of his crimes, or he may get life in prison while his long-dormant conscience eats him alive. With the course he’s currently set himself on he will die defeated, unrepentent, ignoble and unmourned.

Without Finn, Rey, and Poe the Skywalker legacy is shit. It’s ashes and rot and failure. To erase two-thirds of what positivity remains in the Skywalker legacy for reasons that make no fucking sense is repugnant, reductionist, and yeah, racist. It goes against everything the sequel trilogy says it’s about.

selfhate-me:

lj-writes:

silveritemine:

notbythehairofmyfinnyfinnfinn:

nancykerrigan:

protectblkwomen:

futureblackwakandan:

“Tell him I’m trying to redeem the person who slashed him across the back and put him into a coma. Can you tell him that for me please? Thanks.”

Someone finally said it.

Rian Johnson is a fucking hack.

y’all forgot luke redeemed vader who tortured leia, had a hand in blowing up her home planet, killed obi wan and froze han in carbonite?

Do you think that Finn wouldn’t be at least slightly sympathetic if he knew what was actually happening to Kylo Ren, and what had happened to him in the past? You think Finn wouldn’t be against brainwashing and abuse, regardless of the target?

Awww lookit that, Finn is worthless unless he forgives and props up the man who bullied and would have killed him!

Abuse? Not an excuse even if it happened. Brainwashing? Total bullshit. Not only did Kylo disobey Snoke’s order in TFA, he murderized the pickled prune in TLJ. And still wanted to murder his mother and all the Resistance survivors.

Has Finn had any interaction, cannonicaly, other than the fight on star killer base? Honest question. Because I don’t think Kylo has ever bullied Finn. I feel like that’s all on Phasma. That’s not to say that Kylo didn’t try and kill Finn.

Also I don’t think there’s anything wrong with Rey trying to redeem someone inspite of their flaws, pretty fucking big ones I’ll admit. I think it shows her as an inherently good person who believes that there is good in everyone.

Was this question directed at me? Because as far as I can tell you
didn’t reblog from me, meaning I couldn’t have seen it in my notes even
if notes in general weren’t acting up.

Anyway, please see the third and fourth gifs in a post I did about Finn and Kylo (link). Kylo Ren very directly looked at Finn, then as he turned to go unfroze the blaster beam from Poe’s rifle so it struck a pole close to where Finn was standing, showering him with sparks and startling him. (In the original Finn jumped even harder than in the gif I made–I cut out some frames to make the gif smaller.) So yeah, casual, cruel bullying.

War crimes are not a character flaw, jsyk. What was Finn supposed to do if asked to stay in the same organization as the person who nearly killed him, who is known to have been treacherous and murderous before? What was Poe supposed to do if asked to work with someone who murdered a village before his eyes and tortured him so painfully that his screams shattered the recording droid’s sensory capsules (link)? I understand that Rey meant well, but it wasn’t a well-thought-out decision at all.

You are so cruel but please do more

This took me a little while, but here’s the follow up to this post about Kes and Poe!


“You know, I’ve been thinking for days and I still can’t figure it out.”

Finn, who was admiring the view of the tall grass in the waning light, gives him a curious glance. Kes cuts the end off the lash tightened around a newly-repaired fencepost before he turns to face Finn.

“What do I say to the man who saved my son’s life?“

The surprise hits Finn’s eyes and he opens his mouth to speak, then just gapes for a moment before he tries to laugh.

“I mean… you don’t have to- I needed a pilot, didn’t he tell you? It was-”

“Everything. You saved everything dear to me, Finn. He is my entire universe, and you got him out of there.”

Finn picks at a blade of grass that comes to his waist while CR-660 bobs around in the air, fussing with the fencepost. The air is still in the late afternoon, the light hot and big across the grassland.

“I thought I’d lost him in the desert, on Jakku.” Finn looks up to meet his eyes. “I thought that was it.”

“That wasn’t the end, though. Even if it were…” Kes feels a lump growing in his throat, and walks on to the next fencepost to distract himself. CR floats along  behind him, chirping. “It would have been a better- a better end than that hole.”

Unable to go on, he waves CR onto the damaged post. She hovers around, inspecting the split wood before she flies off to a woodpile nearby for a new one.

“Don’t say that. Please.” In Finn’s tense voice Kes hears the echo of what he suffered in those hours when Poe was presumed dead, hours that Kes himself never knew except in nightmares both sleeping and waking.

“I’m sorry. That’s enough about that. But here’s something else I wanted to ask.” He watches CR zoom back, wooden posts floating at the end of her little tractor beam. “Are you all right?”

“Me?” Finn looks lost, not yet familiar with the question. “I… think so?”

“You don’t need to talk about anything you don’t have to, of course. CR, not so tight. You’ll split the wood again.”

The droid boops back, do it yourself if you can do it better. She does pull the lash less tightly in her rounds around the post, however.

“I want to, but I wouldn’t know where to start.” Finn is looking across the grassland again, as though looking for something. “I look at where I was two weeks ago and where I am now, and I literally can’t believe it. Sometimes I think I’m dreaming.”

“Good dream or bad?”

“Both?” Finn’s laughter is a little too sharp. “Sometimes I close my eyes and I’m back in the armor, afraid, and I think I dreamed of escaping. Then I open my eyes and I’m here. Which is real? Did I create this ranch, Poe, Rey, you, in my mind just to keep sane? Maybe the reconditioning happened and this is how it works, by keeping me in a waking dream.”

Finn catches his breath and looks at Kes with what he realizes is actual terror. “I’m sorry, I know I sound crazy. Please don’t tell- I’m really going to be locked up if I say ‘Captain Phasma,’ won’t I.”

“No one’s locking you up, you’re no danger to anyone but the guys who deserve it. Don’t lay about, CR, go do the next one.”

The droid, floating about as though enjoying the view herself, gives an indignant chirp before she flies away.

“Listen. Finn. You’ve gone through a lot in a very short time, and I won’t pretend to know anything about the life you lived before that.” Before he saved Poe, and in so doing became the second most important person in Kes’s life. “If you’re a little crazy from all that, well, who can blame you? Minds bend and break under strain, I can’t say I’m all that sane myself. Or my boy, for that matter. I’ve been doing some reading, and I heard it called a normal response to an abnormal situation.”

Finn nods slowly. “Normal. I like that.”

“But minds can be mended, too,” Kes puts a hand on the fencepost next to him. “Maybe they won’t be exactly the same as before, but enough to keep the beasties out and everyone to be safe.”

“Yes.” Finn’s smile is soft, bittersweet. “Poe is lucky to have you.”

Kes’s heart aches, as it does so often around Finn. What can he say to a loss like this, a gaping wound that sucks in the air around it and stops time, making life seem impossible sometimes?

“I’d say, and don’t let him forget it.” He adds in a lower voice: “I’m lucky to have him, too.”

His chest fills with the knowledge, that no matter how he might bleed and scream inside for Poe, no matter that he fears every day that he might lose his son to would-be Imperial goons, he had the privilege of raising his son to be a man. He had known chubby arms around his neck, scraped knees, gurgling laughter, the first glass of wine, the first broken heart. That was something Finn would never have in this deeply unfair universe.

“Here’s something else I know, Finn. You’re everything, too, to a family that never gave up on you no matter what.”

“That is, if they’re still…” Finn shrugs, looks out across the grassland in the fading light.

“No ifs. Do you think Shara, my Lady Bey, my fire among the stars, ever stopped loving our boy? Or her irritating man, for that matter?” Kes snorts. “Death would be too scared to get in her way.”

Finn bows his head and Kes goes to stand by his side, to see what the younger man is seeing, the sunset filling the sky over waving grass. “I hope your family is out there, looking for you. But if not, they love you and they always will.” In the stillness between them the wind rustles across the fields. “I also want you to know, though it’s no replacement, my home is your home and is open to you, always.”

Finn says nothing for a long moment, and Kes looks at him only to see a tear tracing its way down the young man’s cheek, glittering red in the evening light.

Kes lifts an arm, giving Finn plenty of time to pull away if he wants, and puts a hand to Finn’s back. When Finn leans toward him Kes puts the arm around his shoulders and pulls tight. They stand and face the wind together, in a world of light and the vast expanse, a crescent Yavin revealing itself as the light fades.

“And believe me, it’s not because you’re dating my son. You can dump him like a sack of sweetroots tomorrow, Force knows you can do better, and if you feel uncomfortable with him here I’ll kick him out.”

Finn chuckles as he wipes his face. “Thank you, Kes.”

“I mean it, try me! I told you before and I will tell you again, you need to play the field. You’re too young to settle.”

“Hey, lazy bums!”

They both turn to see Poe walking through the grass down a hill, spare fenceposts slung across his back, Rey behind him with a bag of tools.

“Told you we were going to beat you, Dad, droid or no droid.”

“Keep working like that, Captain Dameron, and you’ll ruin your back before you’re forty.”

“Commander. That’s Commander Dameron!” Poe puts down the posts he was carrying, which CR whisks away. “I was demoted for one day and you’ve been calling me that for a week.”

“A little humility never hurt anyone.”

“So that means you’re cooking, right, Kes?” Rey lets out a squeal. “I can’t wait!”

“Oh, it will be worth the anticipation, Master Jedi.”

“Rey.”

“Rey. Dinner is derloc caldos and roasted tip-yip, a genuine Ewok recipe, with candied slugfruit for dessert.”

“I don’t know what that is, but I know I’ll love it!” Rey turns to Finn and they scream at each other like six-year-olds.

Poe crosses his arms. “If you ever want real food you can always ask me to cook. Not that I will, as long as Dad keeps losing these bets.”

“Oh, a sore winner?” Finn pulls him by an arm around the waist, and they share a kiss and a grin. “I’m beginning to think Kes has a point about needing to play the field while I’m young.”

“Says the guy who was married at twenty-five?” The look Poe shoots Kes over his shoulder is one of pure betrayal. “You are the worst wingman and more importantly, what in space are you thinking.”

“Yes yes, we both know he is far out of your league, but what can I do?” Kes shrugs. “I have to tell the truth when I see it.”

Finn taps Poe’s chest with the back of a hand. “Come on, flyboy, bet I can beat you to the house.”

“First one in gets dibs on the yip-yip!” Rey runs ahead of them.

“Tip-yip,” Kes sighs. “I got the recipe from this Ewok tribe-”

“Not fair! You started first!” Finn runs after Rey, his feet pounding the ground.

“Um no, no! This is not the Rey you’re looking for?”

“Let’s get her, Finn!”

Kes watches them go in the fading light, the wind a cold whisper on his neck. “Come along, CR.”

The droid floats humming to his side and he starts toward the house, listening to the children shout and laugh–warriors all who have seen too much and walked through fire, yet they need to be children at times. He knows he needs that from them, too.

As he walks in Yavin’s light Kes listens to the night birds, the chirping insects, the wind, the sounds of home as the day cools to evening. His steps are steady and his heart is full.

captainsaltymuyfancy:

lj-writes:

Does Kes Dameron know of his son’s capture and torture, near-death and escape? Has he heard from his son since the events on Jakku? Does he wonder and try to keep busy, checking his communicator too many times? Or has he gotten a short message while the Resistance base is in an uproar behind Poe? Despite his son’s assurances that he is fine, he’s just about to deploy can’t talk long, I’ll be fine love you Dad, does Kes see the cuts and bruises despite the grainy quality of the transition, does he sense something has happened to his boy, something Poe would not tell him? Does he ache to be there by Poe’s side, to kiss the scrapes away like he and Shara used to? Does he play the recording again and again, looking for clues, just wanting to see his son’s face in the flesh again, a small and traitorous part of him wondering if he ever will?

When the Resistance is–thankfully, oh, he can breathe again–back in communication and Kes learns, in bits and pieces, what has happened, does he keep up a brave front for his son? Does he hold in the tears and the screams in front of Poe because he can’t make this about himself? Do father and son tear up together as Kes hugs him, repeating how happy he is to have his son back and how proud he knows Shara is of him, just as in life? Does he assure Poe that he can stay and rest as long as he likes, knowing that much like Shara he can’t ground Poe for long while others are still out there fighting?

When Poe wakes from nightmares, is Kes on his feet before the first scream is finished, is he running down the hallway like he had never slept, because he had known this was coming? Does he call Poe’s name, never complaining that Poe’s arms around him are too tight, because it is a reminder that his boy is with him, is alive, that the darkness has not taken him? Does he stay for the rest of the night by Poe’s bedside, and when Poe starts sobbing or groaning in his sleep again does his father stroke his face or pat his shoulder, and is that enough to give him peace–for the moment?

Later in the calmer day, when the night has receded for a while and Poe is laughing outside with the dogs, when Kes takes out his old rifle from the Rebellion days–its main use now to scare away local wildlife from the livestock–to clean it, does he stare at it for a long time? Does he aim it into the air, imagining Kylo Ren’s head at the end of the barrel? Do the great, wracking sobs come then, as he imagines against his will what his son went through? Does his whole body shake from the effort of keeping them silent from Poe outside, an unheard earthquake of pain?

Frantically he runs the numbers through his head. How long was Poe held before that former Stormtrooper, seemingly sent by the Force itself, took him from his cell? How many hours, how many questions, how many screams? How much agony slammed again and again into a mind already torn and bloody from watching a mass murder that he was powerless to stop?

A sense of waste, of failure rises up in him, threatening to choke him with the foul taste. He and Shara, they had dreamed together of peace. They thought their son would grew up in a galaxy without war. It was what they fought and risked their lives for, what they built their home for after the war. What was it all for, with that very son shattered by this new cruel fight?

Stranded in a universe without answers, with nothing but the sounds of his son out in the yard to anchor him, Kes wipes his face and finishes cleaning his weapon with practiced, unthinking hands. He locks the blaster away, not admitting to himself he doesn’t want Poe to stumble on it, as though Poe doesn’t have a weapon of his own that he carries at all times, as though there were anything left to shield his son from.

Poe calls for his father and Kes goes outside, a smile on his face as he steps into the light, laughing to watch Poe mobbed by a pile of wriggling and overenthusiastic puppies. He runs to “rescue” his beleaguered son, kissing each happy pup as he takes it off Poe. The sun shines high above and the night is far away, for now.

Yeah you had no right to do this and I hate you

I GIVE U PUPPIES AND THIS IS THE THANKS I GET

Does Kes Dameron know of his son’s capture and torture, near-death and escape? Has he heard from his son since the events on Jakku? Does he wonder and try to keep busy, checking his communicator too many times? Or has he gotten a short message while the Resistance base is in an uproar behind Poe? Despite his son’s assurances that he is fine, he’s just about to deploy can’t talk long, I’ll be fine love you Dad, does Kes see the cuts and bruises despite the grainy quality of the transition, does he sense something has happened to his boy, something Poe would not tell him? Does he ache to be there by Poe’s side, to kiss the scrapes away like he and Shara used to? Does he play the recording again and again, looking for clues, just wanting to see his son’s face in the flesh again, a small and traitorous part of him wondering if he ever will?

When the Resistance is–thankfully, oh, he can breathe again–back in communication and Kes learns, in bits and pieces, what has happened, does he keep up a brave front for his son? Does he hold in the tears and the screams in front of Poe because he can’t make this about himself? Do father and son tear up together as Kes hugs him, repeating how happy he is to have his son back and how proud he knows Shara is of him, just as in life? Does he assure Poe that he can stay and rest as long as he likes, knowing that much like Shara he can’t ground Poe for long while others are still out there fighting?

When Poe wakes from nightmares, is Kes on his feet before the first scream is finished, is he running down the hallway like he had never slept, because he had known this was coming? Does he call Poe’s name, never complaining that Poe’s arms around him are too tight, because it is a reminder that his boy is with him, is alive, that the darkness has not taken him? Does he stay for the rest of the night by Poe’s bedside, and when Poe starts sobbing or groaning in his sleep again does his father stroke his face or pat his shoulder, and is that enough to give him peace–for the moment?

Later in the calmer day, when the night has receded for a while and Poe is laughing outside with the dogs, when Kes takes out his old rifle from the Rebellion days–its main use now to scare away local wildlife from the livestock–to clean it, does he stare at it for a long time? Does he aim it into the air, imagining Kylo Ren’s head at the end of the barrel? Do the great, wracking sobs come then, as he imagines against his will what his son went through? Does his whole body shake from the effort of keeping them silent from Poe outside, an unheard earthquake of pain?

Frantically he runs the numbers through his head. How long was Poe held before that former Stormtrooper, seemingly sent by the Force itself, took him from his cell? How many hours, how many questions, how many screams? How much agony slammed again and again into a mind already torn and bloody from watching a mass murder that he was powerless to stop?

A sense of waste, of failure rises up in him, threatening to choke him with the foul taste. He and Shara, they had dreamed together of peace. They thought their son would grow up in a galaxy without war. It was what they fought and risked their lives for, what they built their home for after the war. What was it all for, with that very son shattered by this new cruel fight?

Stranded in a universe without answers, with nothing but the sounds of his son out in the yard to anchor him, Kes wipes his face and finishes cleaning his weapon with practiced, unthinking hands. He locks the blaster away, not admitting to himself he doesn’t want Poe to stumble on it, as though Poe doesn’t have a weapon of his own that he carries at all times, as though there were anything left to shield his son from.

Poe calls for his father and Kes goes outside, a smile on his face as he steps into the light, laughing to watch Poe mobbed by a pile of wriggling and overenthusiastic puppies. He runs to “rescue” his beleaguered son, kissing each happy pup as he takes it off Poe. The sun shines high above and the night is far away, for now.

The twitter user fangirljeanne said “Poe fails to listen to women and is still being touted as some progressive anti-masculine hero. […] While Oscar plays Poe as flirty with everyone, doesn’t change the fact that’s the character embodies traditional masculinity. Which makes his conflict with Holdo, a woman with purple hair who wears a crown and gown, emphasizing his distance from traditional femininity.”

pikrollo:

lj-writes:

lj-writes:

lj-writes:

What a hot take! I’d love to print it out and use it as toilet paper!

@dasakuryo It’s another reason why this tweet isn’t even worth picking apart. I guess fangirljeanne, like RJ, can’t see anything more than a macho misogynist stereotype in Poe.

@pikrollo She’s a reylo, isn’t she. Not even going to check and risk seeing awful shit, she’s using their exact talking points.

@popavocadocat Internalized misogyny is a terrible, terrible thing…

I don’t think so? I think she’s just a really weird kylo fan who’s decided that he was intentionally queer coded because he somehow doesn’t fit into male gender norms. An whenever other lgbt would tell her she was wrong she got really mad.

You gave me the courage to go to her Twitter and in full context her points make more sense. She’s not saying people hate poor woobie Kyle because he’s queer-coded or some shit, she makes it very clear that he is evil and villainous. Rather she’s talking about the way Kylo and the First Order in general, from the Empire onward, have been portrayed in othering ways, from being British-coded to swishing around in decadent robes, which she sees as queer coding. It’s the kind of nuance that’s been ruined by all the fascist woobification in the fandom.

That said, the othering/coding is not entirely one-sided. Obi-Wan, who wears swishy robes with the best of them and has a British accent, is as clearly a good guy as anyone in the franchise. Luke himself dons the swishy robes, if not the accent, in RotJ and thereafter. It’s true that these trappings are meant to invoke a mystical and not everyday feel, but they’re not necessarily associated with evil, either. The non-Sith non-Force user members of the Empire and First Order in their uniforms are as “aggressively heterosexual” as anyone could wish, if fascist-coded. And if fangirljeanne reads Nazi aesthetics as queer-coding then that’s a whole another can of worms. Leia in ANH was dressed as fancily as Holdo. Didn’t prevent her from being a heroine. While the queer-coding and othering of villains is an interesting and debatable point, this analysis doesn’t have anywhere near the depth it needs.

Also her take on Poe, especially the nonexistent flirty-with-everyone Poe, is still garbage and it’s not a good look to use Finn as an illustration of “aggressively heterosexual.” You wanna talk queer coding? Why not talk about Finn and Poe’s instant rapport, their Battle Couple moment during the battle of Takodana, their blatantly romantic reunion scene, the fact that Oscar Isaac outright said he played Poe romantically with Finn? Why is queer coding only ever clothing and accents, especially when those go more than one way (much like Finn)? Again, there is a whole lot of depth that’s missing here.

The twitter user fangirljeanne said “Poe fails to listen to women and is still being touted as some progressive anti-masculine hero. […] While Oscar plays Poe as flirty with everyone, doesn’t change the fact that’s the character embodies traditional masculinity. Which makes his conflict with Holdo, a woman with purple hair who wears a crown and gown, emphasizing his distance from traditional femininity.”

lj-writes:

What a hot take! I’d love to print it out and use it as toilet paper!

@dasakuryo It’s another reason why this tweet isn’t even worth picking apart. I guess fangirljeanne, like RJ, can’t see anything more than a macho misogynist stereotype in Poe.