Tag: redemption

I don’t know if I’d agree with saying that Vader was “irreparably broken.” What killed him was his physical disabilities–they made him uniquely vulnerable to Palpatine’s lightning. If he’d survived, I’m fairly sure he could have been fully rehabilitated in time. Now, I don’t ship Reylo and I do think that Love Redeems can be super icky, but I don’t think it would be that bad for Kylo to find redemption and stay alive.

diversehighfantasy:

sithchirrut:

diversehighfantasy:

I think death/becoming a Force Ghost freed Anakin in a way rehabilitation couldn’t have, and not just physically. I think it was a necessary part of his story. He was literally kept on life support in a cyborg suit so his Sith powers could be used by the Empire. Removing his mask (his life support) gave him humanity, but it killed him. And he was good with that. 

I think they want us to think Kylo will be rehabilitated, and he might be – Kylo and Vader are opposites in many ways, I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t give him a Vader-style redemption/death ending. Which could mean he turns it around, or it could mean that he never comes back from the Dark Side.

I’m against a rehabilitated Kylo if it means he’s the center of the whole story, and I don’t see how that could happen and not have it be the Kylo Ren movie. But maybe it could. As long as romantic reylo never happens and Finn remains a protagonist, I’m not that concerned about it. Plus, I’m ReySolo, so I see a sibling thing forming, which may well include Kylo coming back to the family.

This might be a bit garbled because long day, but I want to add something that just struck me.

As you pointed out, in removing Vader’s mask Luke finally makes him human. But it’s also what kills him, because – if we go allegorically with this for a moment – who could be human and live with all that Vader has done? One would presume the guilt would be overwhelming?

Except, TFA shows us that one can indeed be human and be just as evil as Vader because Kylo remains as evil with the mask off as he was with it on. He tortures Rey (with the mask off) as he did Poe (when he had it on). He kills Lor San Tekka with it on, then later after another mask removal scene, murders his own father. Kylo is as evil sans his mask, as he is with it.

So in a way Vader and Kylo juxtaposes each other.

I think it might in part boil down to Christian vs Jewish perspective. Christianity say “no one could be this evil and be human” while Jewish view is “only humans could ever be this evil, evil is not about whether or not you’re human, it’s about choice”.

Yeah, I get what you’re saying. It was shocking when Kylo just *took off his mask.* Like NBD, it’s just a helmet. It was jarringly different from Vader, whose mangled head we glimpsed from the back for 1 second in ESB, and it was a huge deal. Then, of course, the deathbed reveal of an injured, sad old man (even though he wouldn’t have been much older than 40), that made it almost impossible to reconcile that HE was Lord Vader.

With Kylo it’s like a choice. Granted, FO troopers wore masks, but the high ranking officers didn’t. It’s likely a Knights of Ren thing, but in TFA there was something so off about Kylo Ren unmasking whenever he felt like it when Vader’s mask was kind of a prison. It’s like playing dress-up – but he’s really doing horrendous things and he’s making choices that even Vader couldn’t. It’s not a coincidence that Kylo intentionally killed his own father to gain Dark Side cred while Vader’s fall began amidst the despair of losing his mother.

Anyway, yes. There is definitely juxtaposition between Vader and Kylo, and Imo it doesn’t flatter Kylo.

I don’t get it when people say Kylo is not Vader yet, because ummmm we passed that exit miles ago? Kylo did everything Vader did and more, how is he any better or less corrupt?

diversehighfantasy:

lj-writes:

pinkrangerv:

diversehighfantasy:

pinkrangerv:

diversehighfantasy:

“Kylo should be a hero the forgotten children can look up to” is honestly a vile thing to say when Finn exists as an actual hero.

His body language, actions, and the fact that this is fucking Star Wars indicate he has probably been brainwashed. So was Finn. Finn escaped. Some people can.

SOME PEOPLE CANNOT ESCAPE ABUSE, ESPECIALLY CHILDREN, AND THEY NEED TO SEE SOMEONE LIKE THEM EVENTUALLY GETTING OUT OR FREE.

Kylo becoming a hero is NOT going to negate Finn’s heroism. People do NOT just like Kylo because they’re racist against Finn, or they’re woobifying–Kylo’s storyline appeals to a set of people that Finn’s cannot, in a deep-set way. The kid who’s had a teacher call CPS and nothing happened, or the young adult who can’t get a job because they can’t leave the house or drive, or the teenager who doesn’t know how to fight back–they need to see their own story too.

You are missing the point.

Black children are systemically forgotten, systemically disadvantaged, and systemically abused. When people go on about how Kylo should be the hero to represent the forgotten children, they’re forgetting about Black children, they’re forgetting about Finn.

Finn was in an abusive situation too for his entire life. Why does him getting out somehow not count? Why would you think Kylo would have more impact on marginalized, abused kids? That makes no sense to me. ALL of your examples – CPS failure, can’t get a job, can’t fight back – apply to Black kids, and not a lot of people outside the Black community care. Nonblack kids, especially white kids, have many more resources and much more representation. It’s not like there are no damaged/sympathetic white characters out there.

I stand by it. Using marginalized, abused kids as a reason Kylo Ren needs to come out on top is vile. Not least of all because Finn’s story is much more uncommon and would have far more impact on marginalized kids when you consider that Black kids exist.

Could you try reading my post before shooting your mouth off? Like, at all? Because AS I SAID, Finn DOES represent SOME abuse survivors. Just not ALL. I don’t know why the fuck you think that means it ‘doesn’t count’ or ‘not a lot of people outside the Black community care about Black child abuse survivors’, because while I’m sure you have personal reasons to feel that way, Finn is the most celebrated character to come out of that movie, EVEN SURPASSING RAY WHO WAS THE LUKE ANALOGY.

Ben does not negate Finn. Finn does not negate Ben. Neither of them negate Ray. ALL THREE reach out to different survivors, and they are ALL important. I just don’t hold with shitting on one because, to be frank, he’s white.

But like “Ben” wasn’t forgotten? In fact we have Han and Leia still trying to get him back, keeping hope alive that he’s still redeemable? We watch Han give his LIFE trying to get his son back, so calling him forgotten is just factually inaccurate.

Also imagine hearing that a fascist murderer doesn’t represent forgotten children and thinking he’s somehow being shat on, or that he’s a victim of reverse racism lmaooooo

And like, there are seriously fucked up kids out there on the brink of shooting up a school or a church or a movie theater, angry white boys ready to carry out terrorist attacks in the name of their own fucked up sense of self-entitlement. Depressed, disturbed, and dangerous white boys.

How is turning Kylo around and especially giving the girl the task of saving him and loving him back to health helping anything? Future terrorist sees character he used to relate to get the love and status he wants for himself. In the scenario painted by reylos and many other Kylo stans, Kylo becomes healthy and loved – but what path did he take to get there? Kylo is already a killer of Innocents, and look at the sympathy he gets. Now people want him to get respect and get the girl.

Future terrorist is going to see that sad white boys come out on top when they do terrible things, causing people want to understand them and lead them back to the light.

I mean, show us that Kylo is human. I’m all for that. Show us he feels things and bleeds red. People capable of horrendous acts are human – and white people have a tendency to interpret humanity in white mass murderers as “goodness.” That kind of empathy causes more harm than good.

Excellent point. The idea that Kylo Ren deserves a happy and normal life, that the path to his self-actualization is through the dead and tortured bodies of innocent people, is the HEIGHT of privilege and it’s actually dangerous. People are devastated with guilt and grief after causing accidental deaths (violent deaths, psychological trauma, casual abelism and aphobia at the link). If Kylo Ren lives and is truly redeemed in the movies, the guilt should be so unbearable that he might well find death to be preferable. At the very least he would spend most of his life in jail. No one should get a free and happy life after intentionally taking innocent lives, not in any morally tolerable universe (which our own frequently is not), and if the galaxy far, far away had ever stood for anything it’s for good and evil.