Yeah, those leaks about Finn and Poe going off on an unrelated subplot are bloody bs. It’s A. too early for leaks with the filming timeline and B. John and Daisy already confirmed they’d be shooting together, and that will talks that John and Adam were sword training together and that Gleeson said he had been filming with Adam so far, I think it’s safe to say that any leaks of separation are Reylow propaganda.
I ceartainly hope you’re right.
Is there any kind of non-shippy fic exploring Rey and Kylo’s Force bond? Because honestly, that whole Force bond is ripe for dramatic exploration (think Ezra Bridger and Darth Maul), but it definitely throws me off any interest in reading it if there’s a mutual romantic feelings element. (I wouldn’t even be that keen on Kylo having one-sided feelings~ for Rey, given the whole “blame her for Snoke’s death and later order her ship to be shot down and also try to kill everybody in the resistance” thing.)
Honestly, the Force bond stuff has a lot of fic potential for not-at-all-romantic Rey and Kylo. Not something I’d want to see in episode IX, but in fic it would be fascinating to explore the idea that Rey tapping into Kylo’s Force-abilities is something that can be affected and even stopped… and that Rey might have to re-learn how to do certain things in the Force for herself once the Force-bond is severed. Or that Kylo could tap into what Rey knows by using that Force-bond, and he attempts to harm the Resistance with what he learns.
People posting fic to AO3 need to learn that the & represents a non-romantic connection. In other words: there are multiple reylo fics using the tag Rey & Kylo Ren that should instead be tagged Rey/Kylo Ren.
Seriously there is not enough genfic about Rey and Kylo, and not enough genfic in general though that’s another (if related) complaint. Her becoming more powerful through the Force Bond is in fact an interesting idea that should have been shown and dealt with in the movie, and I think it also serves as a metaphor for the way people can hesitate to cut off unhealthy ties because they gain something through them–including survival itself. Like maybe Kylo threatens to cut the bond himself when Rey rejects his offer, warning her that she will lose her accelerated learning and will be defeated, giving her a real choice to make and actual suspense. She would in fact start losing, but the ship getting cut in half would save her much like the planet falling apart in TFA saved him. And then there would be other fallout later, Rey has to find harder but ultimately more lasting ways to train, Kylo uses information he gleaned from the Bond as you say. Like, give me actual consequences, choices, and tension. I did like that the idea of Kylo Ren as some poor misunderstood woobie was thoroughly trashed and Rey had one of the better arcs in the movie having to grow beyond her insecurities that he preyed on, but the execution was weak compared to the potential of the idea.
Now I’m not for a Kylo redemption personally. I’m more in the let him rot away in jail cut away from the force like Ozai or have him on the run as a wanted fugitive. Nevertheless, one thing I’ll never understand is why does everyone put Reylow and Kylo redemption in the same spot? cousins, siblings, former classmates, or party members in a Fortnite match, nothing is going to change the fact that Kylo and Rey aren’t friends or even close. At this point its clear as day that Finn and Rey are in love with each other and they’re both going to be fighting against Kylo.
Regardless of if Kylo lives, dies, goes into exile or prison, Kylo and Rey will never be anything other than enemies.
God tier is if Finn does turn out to be a Force Void, and after Rey distracts Ren by fighting him to a standstill Finn and Ghost Luke move in to cut Kylo’s ties to the Force, giving him an Ozai ending of powerlessness and jail. If Finn can invert his Force Void and project it on others he would have the raw power to neutralize Kylo’s threat permanently. Luke, who did it to himself in life, has the experience to guide Finn.
Afterward Kylo tries to throw his Force powers around like he’s used to, and imagine how ridiculous he would look–he reaches out at Finn to strangle him and nothing happens. He tries to snatch Rey’s lightsaber and it doesn’t even rattle. He tries to mind-trick the Poe, and at Poe’s order the Resistance tackle the Supreme Leader, cuffing him. (Bonus points if they can work in Leia watching sadly but impassively, maybe by screen.) Ren has an epic meltdown as he’s arrested and we all see him for the ridiculous manchild he is without making him some tragic martyr figure, in-universe or in the real world.
Finn going from unconsciously defending himself with his Force immunity to projecting it outward, btw, would also be a neat parallel to his character arc from being focused on protecting himself and those in his immediate sphere to making changes in the universe at large. If he is a Force Void it’s likely to be his innate powers responding to trauma and danger, so of course its first application would be to shield and defend himself. As he realizes he cannot be free without others and his sphere of protection expands, so the Force Void itself would turn outward and would ultimately reach the level of actively taking out threats.
So basically Rey is Zuko in this scenario who was tortured and mindfucked by Ozai before she defies and leaves him, but refuses to kill him despite having a clear chance because she sees it’s not her path. Ghost Luke is the Lion Turtle, a supernatural font of ancient lost wisdom who knows the source of all power and knows how to cut it off. Finn is Aang, brought up to be an emotionless fighting machine before he runs away, bearer of a unique power that earned him the Big Bad’s undying enmity before he learns the ancient knowledge and neuters the villain without killing him. It would be like the Avatar finale except better foreshadowed and more organically intertwined in the protagonist’s arc.
(And then we end IX with a great big Zukaang kiss, hopefully.)
I’ve been thinking about which roles Finn and Poe could be playing in the Resistance in IX. Since they’re both leadership types there would be a great chance of the two of them tripping over each other narratively if they fill a similar capacity, especially since the Resistance according to Oscar is still very small. But with the new Star Wars show “Resistance” once more emphasizing Poe’s role in espionage I think they might give us general Finn and spy master Poe.
It would let both men play to their strengths and experiences while not tripping over each other plot wise.
Finn is a talented leader and great at inspiration. He has knowledge of, and talent for, unconventional battle tactics that works. One of the reasons Phasma wanted him for the officers track in the First Order before he noped out of that fascist regime in epic fashion. With any kind of sizable time skip, which we’re almost certain to see, Finn would have had to gain experience as well making him an excellent general for the Resistance.
Poe has experience with intelligence gathering and espionage from before he became involved in the Resistance. And a tiny Resistance would rely heavily on correct intel and prior knowledge of targets if their attacks were to have any effect against the First Order and not cost themselves too dearly in soldiers and materiel they cannot afford to lose.
In fact such a division could make for a good set up for roles for the entire heroic quartet as @lj-writes pointed out to me, with Finn leading the Resistance’s martial arm, Poe’s its intelligence capacities, Rey at least for the time being representing its Jedi/mystical capabilities and Rose rounding out the leadership by representing the all important support personnel – mechanics, medics, ect – without which the Resistance would not survive long.
~Mod Mara
The Resistance relying so heavily on intelligence would also be a nice dovetail into Poe being the Resistance’s overall leader, something he was being set up for in… pretty much every piece of franchise material he appeared in, most explicitly in The Last Jedi and the Poe Dameron comic.
This sets up an interesting dynamic between Finn and Poe, among others, because Finn has never been… how shall we say it… good with orders and bosses. I mean, ask the aforementioned Phasma. Wait you can’t lmaoooo
Even aside from the part where Finn understandably flips the bird to fascists, Poe himself tried to give Finn something approaching orders twice in two movies and Finn was 0/2 in following them. “We’re going back to Jakku!” “No, that’s stupid.” “Come back, this mission is a bust!” “Hell 2 the No!!”
This independence of thought is part of Finn’s strength and in fact in the best tradition of the Rebellion, e.g. Cassian, Raddus, Lando…, but it does mean that Poe would be foolish to expect a traditional superior-subordinate relationship with Finn. It’s interesting to speculate how Poe will carry forward his experience with Holdo and Leia in dealing with Finn. (I’m fine with the Holdo episode being quickly forgotten, personally. I mean, literally, “That’s not how the Rebellion works!”)
I think the franchise’s recent emphasis on maintenance and materiel–most prominently fuel–looks promising for Rose’s role. It’s also part of the reason I speculated that supplies will be a major part of Episode IX. As you pointed out, Rose’s technical expertise makes her indispensable to this side of the Resistance’s operations, making her vital for both intelligence and military operations. Rose started her career in the Resistance as a flight mechanic, serving aboard a bomber and providing real-time support in the thick of battle, and with the Resistance understaffed as it is she could reprise that role. It would lead to personal challenges, too, because the Cobalt Squadron book tells us that being responsible for lives in battle took a toll on her preexisting anxiety issues and she always flew with Paige before. The first time she didn’t, well, that was when Paige died.
Rey’s role as the Jedi is the vaguest, in some ways. Like you I am not enamored with the idea of her getting yet a third confrontation with Kylo Ren. This isn’t the Luke situation with Vader, where Luke was able to avoid confrontation with Vader altogether in the first movie, suffered defeat and a shocking revelation in the second, and was primed for a rematch in the third. She’s already beaten Kylo 2 for 2, there’s nothing to prove by kicking his ass a third time. She explicitly tried to replicate Luke’s Vader redemption ending, that bridge is crossed and burned. He tried Palpatine-style temptation on her, again, didn’t work. She was going for the RotJ ending and he for the RotS one, and they both failed. There’s nothing left in that direction that isn’t a boring repeat. As I said before, I’d find it interesting if she took point on eliminating the Knights of Ren so they can’t tamp down discontent in the FO ranks, causing chaos in the FO, kind of a “defeat the middle bosses to unlock the big boss” situation.
It’s Finn, not Rey, who is in Luke’s situation with this series’ Big Bad. Only it’s Luke’s sequence reversed, with a defeat and injury in the first movie and avoidance of confrontation in the second, leaving tension for the final confrontation. His position representative of the Resistance’s martial arm places him on a direct collision course with Kylo Ren. Now that’s a grudge match I’m up for.
Guess who went to see tfa another two times or “Loading all seven seasons of Amar en Tiempos de la Antigua República onto bb8 was a mistake”
You know, that whole thing about Anakin being a false Messiah made me think. Anakin never did do what the Prophecy of the Chosen One said he would, did he? Even if we take the narrow Jedi interpretation of it.
Like he was supposed to a) destroy the Sith and b) bring balance to the Force. But he only managed part one, dying before he could do anything about part two.
Which makes him the Star Wars equivalent of a false Messiah. He never did fulfill the requirements.
Of course we end up once again with the question, what is “bringing balance to the Force” supposed to mean anyway? To destroy the dark side? Or the ability to use the dark side?
In that case not only did Anakin fall woefully short of accomplishing that, the Jedi were truly blind if they thought just destroying the Sith would do that. While the Sith were the strongest dark side group, they were not alone. Not by a long short. We have the Witches of Dathomir just for a start.
And then there’s Yoda’s words about fear, anger and hate leading to the dark side. Which essentially means that the dark side lives in all of us and cannot be erased.
A balance between light and dark? Except the dark is shown as being pretty constantly evil. Like tyranny and genocide kinda evil. Plus that would never have gone down with the Jedi would it?
So how do we bring balance to the Force? And how do we prevent the galaxy from repeating the same story over and over again? That Finn, Rey, Poe, Rose and all the rest 20, 30 or 40 years down the line will be facing the same struggle all over again, the way Leia, Han and Luke did?
“The only fight, against the dark side. Trough the ages evil has taken many forms. The Sith, The Empire. And now the First Order. We must face them. Fight them. All of us.”
These are Maz’s words to Rey when she asks what fight it is Maz is talking about.
The difference between Judaism and Christianity in the view of bringing about the Messianic age is that Christians – white Christians at the least – sits around passively for it to come when God decides it. For Jewish people it is an active process we’re all a part of, and it won’t arrive until we have done the work and are ready for it. It’s a state we work to achieve, not something arbitrarily bestowed upon us from on high.
In the original Star Wars the universe’s equivalence of the “Messianic age” is bestowed upon the galaxy when Anakin kills Palpatine and dies himself, erasing his own sins and bring “balance”.
In Jewish eyes it’s just not that easy.
As I already pointed out Anakin failed in doing anything to address the “imbalance” of the Force. And the rest of the galaxy seemed content to go on its own fucked up way and continue as it had always been. Perhaps because the fight against evil and “the dark side” was something that resided solely in the hands of the Jedi to their way of thinking.
Maz tells us no. It is on everyone if the fight against evil is to be won, if the dark side is to be defeated and the “Messianic age” arrive.
So where does that leave our heroes?
Well, with a whole lot of work cut out for them that’s for sure. And the ST’s conclusion will not be the Christian fairy tale ending that George gave the OT trio. The fight against the dark side and the balancing of the Force is almost certainly going to reach far beyond the ending of IX.
That doesn’t mean that it won’t be hopeful or optimistic. In our current political climate what better message to send that the idea that we can all make a difference. That a better tomorrow is in our own hands. That we can win this fight, though it will be a long one, but we have to stand together. We have to each do our part. We can’t wait for other to come save us, nor should we passively expect rescue. Doing that leaves only room for evil and oppression to win.
But if we do? Then we can win. We can bring evil, the dark side, to its knees.
So rather than passively waiting for an anointed family or an order of clerics to come save them, or the government for that matter (the clerics were government enforcers in the old Republic era, with all the problems that implies), the peoples of the galaxy must rise up themselves to fight oppression? Works for me, and I think in its bumbling and confusing way TLJ set up that endgame by showing the downfall of the “holy family” and “priestly class.” Rey’s faith in both was cruelly dashed by the very men she pinned her hopes on, and she had to realize that she, not they, were the hope the galaxy was looking for.
The same theme can be seen in a roundabout way through Finn’s story. He was trained to see himself as either helpless to stop the overwhelming force of the FO or, to the extent he had any effect, as an expendable cog in the machine. Therefore he swung from the extreme of wanting to run because he couldn’t hope to do anything except get killed, to the other extreme of accepting his own death as a cost in the fight. Rose’s and then Luke’s intervention flipped the script by showing that no, he was not expendable, in fact it’s one of the “chosen” ones who would sacrifice himself for the ordinary Resistance fighters.
Poe’s story can also be seen as him going from reliance on Leia to being a leader in his own right, again in a terribly executed plot but that seems to be the intention. The comics show this angle more clearly by portraying him respectfully disagreeing with Leia on a matter that concerned the very heart and soul of the Resistance and reaching a compromise, then turning out to be right and saving the day. Because Leia trusts him, for a good reason! Because Poe has, in fact, never been a selfish gloryhound who sacrifices people right and left for the sake of victory! And the Rebellion/Resistance has never been the kind of military where the superior expects to be obeyed because she says so without question or input, which is a terrible way to make decisions anyway!
Salt aside, though, I can see TLJ following up from TFA to set up IX for a giant “fuck you” to the supposed Skywalker legacy and for the fight against evil to be a broad-based one, not just a slugout between superpowered beings.
I think that’s a key point, that it DOESN’T MATTER whether Kylo has doubts or has his fee-fees hurt by committing murder or whatever. He gets such a massive amount of credit for his fucking feelings, it’s laughable. It doesn’t matter how bad or conflicted he may feel, his actions are heinous and he has committed crimes he can never fully atone for. It’s his choices that matter, not his regrets or feelings.
my dudes i was listening to the star wars soundtrack on the bus as one does, and started thinking….you know what a crazy awesome fight scene would be? A duel on a frozen lake (some parts are thinner ice and dangerous!!) !! so next movie how cool would that be. jedi rey and finn vs the knights of ren on a Frozen Lake
so, what you’re suggesting is a environmental flipped duel of mustafar?
Fury on Ice
L.J.'s Obsessions 