I don’t understand the people who say that Kylo would have worked better if he had been a random, I really don’t. Kylo’s connection to the Skywalker bloodline, along with the lack of clear motive for his actions, is the entire point.
See, he’s a Nazi.
Okay, so technically he’s an allegory for a neo-Nazi in a space fantasy setting, but given that this hellsite has a distinct difficulty with complex concepts I’ll keep it simple. He’s a Nazi.
Why did Nazis do what they did? Why do neo-Nazis do what they do?
If you peel away all the embellishments and propaganda it comes right down to this: they see themselves as having a special legacy, a special bloodline to protect and they have a right to do so because they feel they’ve been chosen.
JJ has said that the early concept of Jedikiller only started working when they made him connected to the Skywalker bloodline, to the chosen family in Star Wars.
Kylo’s motivation, like that of all Nazis, is that he’s doing this because he belongs to the chosen people and thus have a right to rule. Not because he’s qualified, but because he belongs to the destined people.
No it’s not deep or complex, but it was never meant to be. Kylo is an antagonist and one JJ always meant to emulate a neo-Nazi. Giving him complex motivation would have detracted from this and, like with the real life equivalent, made it possible to justify what he’s doing because he has X, Y, Z motivation. Instead JJ gave him the most basic motivation of Nazis, he’s right because he’s chosen and because he has the strength to do what he does.
It’s not glorious. It’s pathetic, sad and ultimately someone who’s irredeemable. Not because he couldn’t choose differently than he does but because it’s not a motivation that makes anyone want to see him redeemed.
Of course, even people who sees Kylo as a villain and antagonist have a really hard time accepting him being a Nazi, so maybe this view isn’t really that surprising.
I mean the actor himself told us that Kylo Ren is an elitist (link), it’s not that deep people.
[Adam Driver] refuses to see his character as bratty. “There is a little bit of an
elitist, royalty thing going on,” he says, reminding us that the
character’s estranged mom is “the princess. I think he’s aware of maybe
the privilege.”
Cass Sunstein has criticized TLJ in part because Kylo didn’t fall due to losing a loved one (link), but maybe that’s because… Kylo is no Anakin… and is not nearly as sympathetic?
Mr. Dark Side, Kylo Ren, does have a bit of a struggle, and in that
sense, Johnson maintains continuity with Lucas’s vision. But in this
movie, at least, the struggle turns out to be a head fake. Because
Kylo’s descent doesn’t have the precipitating cause of Anakin’s – the
loss of loved ones – and because we don’t see Kylo suppressing the
better angels of his nature, the film doesn’t come anywhere close to the
depths of Lucas’s films.
If anyone is positioned as the new Anakin–but with a happy ending–it’s Rey, in struggling with the loss of loved ones, or at least her idea of them, and also in resisting manipulation by her would-be abusive mentor Kylo where Anakin fell to Palpatine’s manipulation. It’s interesting that Sunstein couldn’t recognize this story when it manifested in a female character, though to be sure it’s a common enough blind spot and RJ didn’t make it easy for anyone.
Precisely.
People, not just Cass here, are obsessed with having Kylo be the next Vader/Anakin, but he isn’t. Not to mention they’re even more obsessed with the reason why he fell to the Dark Side than they are with Rey’s parentage.
But let me ask you something. Did we know why Anakin fell in the OT? No, we didn’t, because the reason for it wasn’t relevant to Luke for whom Vader was a foil.
Is it relevant to Finn or to Rey why Kylo fell? So far we’ve been given not a single reason why this information should be relevant to either of them, so I don’t get why people are so upset about not knowing.
Except as yet another case of prioritizing the white guy over the two actual leads in the ST. Kylo’s motives for turning to the Dark are no more interesting or relevant to the narrative than Vader’s were in the OT. It’s not a plot hole, it’s not a flaw in the storytelling, it’s intentional. Only the parts of Kylo and his actions that are pertinent to Finn and Rey are relevant to the story, and unless someone can come up with a good reason why either of them should remotely care about it it’s going to remain irrelevant.
It’s why I was so attached to the idea of Rey Solo, I admit, because it would reconcile Kylo being like Anakin with the reason for his fall being relevant to Rey. The why would tie into Rey’s story while the how would directly contrast with Finn’s.
But it looks like the ST is going to go the route of only the how being relevant to both Rey and Finn. Rey at the end of TFA and even more throughout TLJ is where Kylo used to be, only to make different choices: she was chosen and groomed by a powerful Dark Force user while vulnerable and alone, but unlike Kylo she told the guy to fuck all the way off and chose to stand with her friends, not murder them. Finn throughout TFA and TLJ continues to present a direct contrast to Kylo Ren at every point, from backgrounds to choices to responses to abuse.
Rey is the one who could have been Kylo, had Kylo succeeded in his efforts. Finn is the one who stands in complete opposition to Kylo, and Kylo hates him for it.
This only strengthens the Finnrey/Anidala feels, by the way. Anakin/Rey was Palpatine/Kylo’s chosen victim-apprentice, but where Anakin chose the darkness and servitude Rey chose the light and freedom. Padmé/Finn was Palpatine/Kylo’s rival and enemy, but where Palpatine succeeded in destroying Padmé Kylo failed because where Anakin turned against Padmé, Rey was steadfast in her loyalty to Finn. We have no idea and no reason to care why Palpatine fell other than his desire for power, and the same is true of Kylo.
If you still ship Reylo after hearing “You’re nothing. But not to me.” You and I need to have a long chat about emotional abuse.
They’re a dysfunctional brother and sister who don’t know they’re related and he’s abusivr to her the end. They’re not a couple and never will be k bye
TBH, the fan analysis surrounding The Last Jedi has been painfully shallow. People only seem to think everything made complete sense and there’s nothing wrong or LucasFilm screwed up everything.
We’re pretty much the only one’s taking the view the movie makes no sense as presented based on what we know and that it’s completely intentional.
Ironically, the GA actually gets it.
Look, maybe this has a lot to do with people being overall so disappointed that even though they notice these things, they aren’t ready to believe it means anything? And most people disliked the movie to the point that they don’t want to watch it again to make any kind of analysis… like me for instance…
I know the feeling. My mother and her husband went back to believing that Rey is Kylo’s younger sister. They simply refuse to believe that the revelation is the truth. I’m 50/50 about all of this because it really killed my desire to speculate about her lineage. I just want Rey to accept that she’s the hero the galaxy needs.
This is what this has always been about to me… self acceptance and growth…
In terms of whether the reveal is being swallowed by the GA: I’ve said shortly after the release that people I know walked out of the cinema saying that Rey is Kylo’s sister. So in the end if the origin story is true, it’s so lame the GA doesn’t believe it…
One of the things that surprised me about the fan theorizing after TLJ is that Rey Solo is actually having a resurgence. I’m fine with Rey Random personally, just dislike the unnecessary mystery that preceded it, but clearly some of the audience interpreted the Rey-Kylo dynamic as that of siblings such as the hand-touching through the Force Bond as a parallel to Luke and Leia.
And it’s not like when fans were saying Vader was lying in TESB, either, since there are actually concrete things that don’t match up. With even Rian Effing Johnson saying this isn’t the final word on the parentage issue and the revelation was just what made sense at the time as part of Kylo trying to make her insecure, it looks like we’re stuck in uncertainty for yet another two years.
But if I imagine Rey and Kylo to be siblings, I’d imagine a scene where she stands in front of a mirror, and looks at her own features, desperately trying not to see any of his features in her face. And then their faces morph in some horror-like vision. And whenever she speaks she suddenly hears an echo of his voice and starts believing she sounds like him. Every bad thought she has suddenly feels like a similarity to him. Her biggest pull to the Dark would be her own fear that it’s her destiny and in her bones and that deep down she is just like her brother and just like Vader.
I know it’s been said they don’t have plans for Billy Dee Williams to return as Lando Calrissian in Episode IX. But things could change (fingers crossed). And since Luke Skywalker is now dead (though he’ll probably come back as a Force ghost) and Carrie Fisher has passed away (therefore Leia will probably be dead too), Lando is the last original trilogy character we have.
I think it’d make sense if he were to come back and lead the new characters in Episode IX. And some people would find this idea stupid, but I think it’d be cool if we found out Finn is Lando’s son. Given everything Finn has suffered through in The Force Awakens and now The Last Jedi, I think it’d be nice for him to finally find out who his family is and to have a nice father/son reunion that ties the past and present together.
Plus, if we find out that Kylo Ren was in fact lying to Rey about her parents and that Rey is in fact a Skywalker or maybe even a Solo (fingers crossed for either reveal) and if Finn & Rey fall in love in Episode IX (again, fingers crossed) and they get together & have children afterwards, Lando’s grandchildren would also be Luke’s or Han & Leia’s grandchildren.
The Skywalker/Calrissian children or the Solo/Calrissian children. That does have a nice ring to it, doesn’t it? 🙂
Listen I get how that story could be great, again Rey Random isn’t wrong in terms of Rey being a jedi or being a powerful one. Rey Random makes no sense in regards to Rey being the sole person in the sequel trilogy to be connected to all of the Skywalkers. If they wanted to make Rey Random work they should have decided from the begining to spread out the connection between Rey, Finn, and Poe.
Look at all these connections and tell me how she isn’t connected to the Skywalkers?
Super Connected to Han Solo (Whom she spent less time with then Finn, who never mentions him in TLJ), she’s so upset over his death even in TLJ she’s crying about how Kylo murdered him. Han Solo looks at her in utter astonishment at times, and offers her a position without even knowing her. It’s clear Han wanted to get to know Rey better.
Super Connected to Princess Leia, she has two scenes which are mothering scenes. Leia walks right pass Chewie to embrace Rey after Han’s death. Leia is Rey’s “guiding light home”. Leia chooses again to be comforted by Rey in the aftermath of TLJ. Leia wears a specific ring which has two stones sitting directly opposite of each other, which is panned to multiple times in both movies.
Super Connected to Luke, her story is a 1 to 1 parallel with Luke’s. The music swells and time slows down when Luke Skywalker is mentioned around Rey in TFA. She is chosen to go bring Luke back. She feels Luke’s death through the force.
Super Connected to Kylo, literally they have a force bond, which doesn’t just form overnight and yet somehow Kylo and Rey’s formed days after meeting. They literally parallel Vader and Luke in TLJ. Kylo Ren says “It is you!” in the novelization of TFA.
She’s even connected with Darth Vader in some regard, she’s the only member of the sequel trilogy to mention Vader by name. Which I find important. The Skywalker lightsaber calls to her specifically, she can grab it over Kylo, she and Kylo tear it in two.
I think people need to understand Rey Random doesn’t make sense from a narrative POV. The narrative tells us Rey is connected to the Skywalker family. Somehow she is connected to them. It’s not about her accomplishments or about her being a powerful jedi. They gave all the Skywalker connection to Rey. That’s why people still believe that Rey is a member of this family. The parentage wasn’t some cool add-on just because she didn’t know about her parents. It made narrative sense.
They could have told the story of Rey Random, in fact they already did in Rebels. Rebels is about a random force user named Ezra, nobody thinks he’s a secret Skywalker, you know why? Because the narrative does nothing to indicate that he is. They could have told the story of Rey Random. They chose not too. They chose to have her be the sole connection to the Skywalker legacy. That’s what the issue is with Rey Random.
L.J.'s Obsessions 