[Image description: Definition of MURDER 1 : the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought – was convicted of murder]
It’s also yet another word that Reylos evidently don’t know the meaning of if they’d say shit like this:
[Image description:
anonymous said: reylos are pathetic. how can you guys like kylo ren? he’s a MURDERER
answer: Hello, anon, I could give you an elaborate answer, but I’ll follow your (lack of) logic and play along. Yes, Kylo Ren kills people.
But so does Finn. (image of Finn stabbing a Stormtrooper with a lightsaber)]
The post goes on with more examples from Poe, Han, and Rey, and ends with:
[Image description: Welcome to Star Wars, where major characters kill other people. Have a lovely day.]
I’m… actually shaking? This person equated Finn’s actions with those of a mass murderer. Literally every single one of the examples she posted–Finn at Takodana, Poe at Tuanul, and Rey at Takodana–were killings done in defense of self and others, thereby justified, therefore, hello, not murder.
This shitty “answer,” whether in ignorance or dishonesty, completely avoided the point of the question and drew a completely false moral equivalence, trying to blur a crucial boundary.
And you know what, I have people in my line who killed in defense of their loved ones and homes when my country was invaded. They were not murderers. Look at that definition again: Killing =/= Murder. How dare you?
Funny, isn’t it, how this group is so quick to cry “It’s just fiction!” when it comes to their ship, but when it comes to defending their murdering fave they’re so quick to change the definitions of real-life words and insult real people.
I remember seeing the full post, and it was an
exaggeration, but so was the ask – that anon had no business asking such
a question. Some people like fictional murderers. I sure do. Ask a
stupid question, get a stupid answer.
And either way, none of your attempt at logic applies – a) this is
fictional fantasy world. b) the galaxy is at war. and war has different
rules.
Oh, I think we can all agree the anon was being an ass. However, where the ask was asinine the answer goes in a direction that is both disingenuous and dangerous. Seriously, equating self-defense with aggressive violence is how atrocities are justified.
For the record I like fictional murderers, too, and I find Kylo Ren fascinating. What I don’t do is equate his actions with those of characters who were defending themselves and others against unjust aggression.
On to your points, a) no, there is no evidence that mass murder is any less wrong in this universe. In fact mass murder is so wrong in this world that even one of the Stormtroopers who, according to your shitty fave, “were programmed (hurk) from birth,” could see how wrong it was. Show me what alternative rules of engagement apply in the SW verse to make annihilating entire planets okay or defensible. Oh, that’s right, you can’t.
Besides, even if SW is fictional the people who create and consume this fiction are human beings on Earth. Fun fact, the directors and writers of The Force Awakens are Jewish and they certainly have a viewpoint on mass murder and the inhumane treatment of prisoners.
To say you don’t read Star Wars in this way so you can keep your fannish obsession guilt-free is one thing; to say Star Wars can’t be read as a message on oppression and war crimes is just being an asshole.
b) Did you seriously try to tell a lawyer with a doctorate in international law what the laws of war are? Fine, here are the laws of war (emphases mine):
Geneva Convention (IV) on Civilians, 1949
Article 32:
The High Contracting Parties
specifically agree that each of them is prohibited from taking any
measure of such a character as to cause the physical suffering or
extermination of protected persons in their hands. This prohibition
applies not only to murder, torture, corporal punishment, mutilation and
medical or scientific experiments not necessitated by the medical
treatment of a protected person, but also to any other measures of
brutality whether applied by civilian or military agents.
Who are these protected persons who may not be mistreated?
Article 4:
Persons protected by the Convention are those who, at a given moment and in any manner whatsoever, find
themselves, in case of a conflict or occupation, in the hands of a Party
to the conflict or Occupying Power of which they are not nationals.
Applying the above, Kylo Ren ordered the murders of civilians in the territory he invaded, which is a clear violation of the laws of war.
You might argue that the inhabitants of Tuanul were armed. Does that change things? Nope. They were not armed at the time Kylo Ren ordered them killed, and even if we see them as captured combatants these provisions apply:
Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War, 1949
Article 4
A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:
6. Inhabitants of a non-occupied territory, who on the approach of the enemy spontaneously take up arms to resist the invading forces, without having had time to form themselves into regular armed units, provided they carry arms openly and respect the laws and customs of war.
The inhabitants of Tuanul clearly fit these criteria and are treated as prisoners of war under the Geneva Conventions. Poe’s status should be obvious, but to elaborate he falls under Article 4(A)(2):
2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:
(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.
And what are the protections provided to these prisoners?
Article 17, paragraph 3:
No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted, or exposed to any unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind.
Article 130:
Grave breaches to which the preceding Article relates shall be those involving any of the following acts, if committed against persons or property protected by the Convention: wilful killing, torture or inhuman treatment, including biological experiments, wilfully causing great suffering or serious injury to body or health, compelling a prisoner of war to serve in the forces of the hostile Power, or wilfully depriving a prisoner of war of the rights of fair and regular trial prescribed in this Convention.
Therefore, if you view the inhabitants of Tuanul village as enemy fighters, Kylo Ren’s order was still a brieach of the laws of war because they were his prisoners at the time and no longer posed a threat. Poe’s torture was similarly a grave breach, that is an especially serious violation, of the laws of war in the treatment of prisoners.
As for the destruction of the Hosnian system, I can’t believe I even have to cite a law for this outside of basic fucking humanity, but if you want chapter and verse here’s one:
Protocol Additional to the
Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of
Victims of International Armed Conflicts (Protocol I), 8 June 1977
Article 48:
In order to ensure respect for and
protection of the civilian population and civilian objects, the Parties
to the conflict shall at all times distinguish between the civilian
population and combatants and between civilian objects and military
objectives and accordingly shall direct their operations only against
military objectives.
The entire Hosnian system was not a military objective. Their fleet, shipyards, military bases and so on would qualify, but not the entire system. It’s clear from our view of the city that these were civilians going about their lives, and the First Order wiped out entire populations solely due to the fact that they lived in the territory of a hostile government. That has never been an acceptable method of warfare, not even at Hiroshima and Nagasaki which you lot love to cite. (Me, I like to cite it as an example of victor’s justice. I’m in a country that was actually under Japanese occupation and am happy as anyone they lost, but as a legal scholar and as a goddamned person I still don’t condone the slaughter of tens of thousands of civilians. Funny how that works.)
In conclusion, yes, a person may kill in war. But one may kill combatants who are an active threat, not civilians or prisoners. These are still unjustified killing, i.e. murder, even in times of war, and the killing and torture of prisoners is never justifiable, to say nothing of the destruction of entire planets full of civilians.
So tell me again how different laws apply in war. I know the laws of war, honey, and the First Order committed breathtakingly obvious breaches left and right. Also tell me how a Jewish director and Jewish writers created a movie where mass murder is totally okay and in any way the moral equivalent of fighting back against such attacks. Go on, I’ll wait.
Also the Hosnian genocide was the FO’s declaration of war? The “the Galaxy was at war” excuse doesn’t even hold within TFA itself for the Tuanul massacre, Poe’s abduction and torture, the Battle at Takodana (INCLUDING Rey’s abduction), OR the Hosnian genocide *even if* you’re so unethical that you think torture or the mass, systematic murder of civilians could ever be considered ethical – even during wartime. The Galaxy was NOT at war until the third act of TFA. Everything the First Order did up until then was completely unjustifiable, and if the non-Centrist Senators knew about what the FO were doing, they could have arrested every “officer” (which is in quotes because the FO is not a legitimate military, it’s a militia.)
In fact, the REASON the Tuanul Massacre happens is to prevent any witnesses from reporting that the FO took Poe, a New Republic Defense Force officer, prisoner. The FO’s entire engagement policy is based on “this is an illegal act, so leave no witnesses” – until they declare war by destroying the governing body and official military that could hold them accountable. It’s like, key to the entire ST that war isn’t declared until the Hosnian System is destroyed.
The Poe comics go into detail about how the Resistance’s engagement policy with the FO is that they can never shoot first, because the Galaxy is not at war, and even though the Resistance is an unofficial militia as well, Poe’s status as an NRDF officer* (along with many of the other pilots, and I’d have to guess officers/ground crew, too, but IDK for sure) would give the FO just cause to argue before the Senate that the Resistance-allied planets and senators are the aggressors and that the Centrist/FO-aligned planets have a right to defend themselves through warfare. The Resistance, until the Hosnian genocide, is EXPLICITLY IN THE CANON TEXT, a defense-only organization. Poe is a STICKLER about not shooting first.
Which is why it’s actually really interesting, and important, that he does not shoot Kylo Ren at Tuanul until AFTER Kylo killed Lor San Tekka. Kylo and Lor San Tekka are technically both civilians – the Knights of Ren are, shockingly, not a recognized military organization in the Galaxy – and Poe is not.* He can’t engage on a civilian. It seems from BTA that Poe’s position in the NRDF is like a cross between a cop and a military officer, though, so once Kylo has killed and still has an active weapon in use, Poe can engage. And he tries.
HOWEVER, THEY’RE STILL NOT AT WAR, so the FO’s abduction of Poe is STILL ILLEGAL AND UNETHICAL. HE IS NOT A PRISONER OF WAR: HE’S A KIDNAPPED INDIVIDUAL. (Same for Rey, when Kylo abducts Rey – although the FO has declared war at that point, Rey is a civilian. She’s not part of the Resistance when Kylo abducts and tortures her. She’s just a civilian who defended her own life when an illegal militia stormed the non-combat zone she was in.) Since Poe was tortured for at least 14 hours BEFORE Kylo even went in, we can assume this was the FO acting as an organized group, not just Kylo going rogue because he hates that Poe is close to his mom or something. (Which would also, obviously, not be ethical.)
The point is, they’re not at war, and the main reason they would be heading towards killing Poe is so that he can’t report what happened to him either to the Resistance OR to the NRDF/Senate. Finn’s intervention saved Poe’s life, but also probably bumped up the timeline for when Starkiller was going to be fired, because if Finn and Poe survive their TIE crash and make it to Leia, the Senate will know what the FO did to the Tuanul villagers AND to one of the NRDF’s star officers – with proof. (IIRC, isn’t that part of why Korr Sella is on Hosnian Prime during the genocide? She was there as Leia’s emissary giving testimony against the FO? I can’t remember 100%.)
Everything about how the FO comports itself underscores the fact that they KNOW they have no actual grounds to take any of the actions they take. They hide in the Outer Rim so the NRDF patrols are less likely to discover them. They kill all witnesses. They do not declare war through legal/ethical channels (IE: there’s SPECIFICALLY AND POINTEDLY no warning before they engage in hostilities against the standing government body [which arguably makes the FO a coup, but still, they were NOT at war until after Starkiller’s firing], no options are given to negotiate for neutrality or compromise, and the entire point of the Hosnian Genocide, besides eliminating the governing body that could hold the FO accountable, was a show of force to threaten all of the other Systems into compliance/submission).
I would honestly wager that part of why Hux hates Kylo is that Kylo doesn’t care about not drawing attention to himself, and he could get them ALL caught and tried for treason. (Maybe that’s why Phasma and the troopers are sent with him to Tuanul in the first place? ‘Clean up after Kylo.’)
ANYWAY, that’s all to say that the Galaxy is absolutely NOT in a state of war, and yes, every single murder committed by Kylo, Phasma, and Hux during the TFA is murder, and every killing committed by Finn, Poe, the Resistance, and Rey is self-defense and the defense of others; thus, not murder.**
*There’s mixed canon about Poe’s status in the NRDF. The comic states that he is an active officer on leave, the Logbook states that he resigned, and iirc another one of the books says that he’s AWOL, but I’m not sure which one that is or if I’m remembering that part correctly. Either way, the canon status of Poe’s NRDF enlistment is not 100% clear.
**The Galaxy is also not at war when the Empire commits the Alderaanian Genocide, which was another show of threat meant to cow other Systems into submission. The difference there is that it WAS committed by the official military, but like, you’re still not allowed to commit genocide. That’s the whole… Nazi parallel… rearing its head again…
^^^^Holy shit, this is such a magnificent breakdown and exposes the utter bankruptcy of the argument that the laws of engagement as we know them don’t apply to the GFFA.
And yes, Korr Sella was on Hosnian Prime as Leia’s emissary to inform the Senate of what the FO was doing so the New Republic could take action. I’m pretty sure that was why Snoke & Hux fired the weapon when they did, so they could gain the upper hand in the coming war.
I guess what I’m saying is, from the moment they decided Rey would be a female and Kylo a male and they’d both be close enough in age to date. That’s when they decided on Reylo as endgame.
You’re comments are full of sexism, but also it could be reversed on you and claim they were close in age to make them the new Skywalker generation.
Also Finn is 23 and is closer in age with Rey then Kylo, who’s 30 to Rey’s 19. So by your logic, Finnrey is already endgame.
This is treh wildest argument I have seen a Reylo ever use, I’m fucking dying. By their own logic Finnrey is more endgame because they are actually close in age. like Kylo is 10 years older than Rey, lmao. Outside of being sexist they also do not know basic math.
Nah, we all know that Reylos don’t consider Finn a viable love interest for Rey because he’s Black. You can’t have a Black man with a white woman because it ruins the aesthetics and it means a future Black Skywalker line which is abhorrent to them
“What do you mean, I’ve been technically committing
adultery?” Han spun toward Lando, arms akimbo.
“Technically I never filed the divorce papers.” Lando
spread his arms. “And you never followed up. You seemed happy enough taking the
tax exemptions.”
“I was getting tax exemptions?”
Leia shook her head. “Ten years married, and you
assumed he ever has his paperwork in order.”
“He had me to do it for him while the marriage was
still… active.” Lando raised his eyebrows. “I’m afraid you get the job now,
Leia.”
“That’s enough.” Han massaged the bridge of his nose
while his husband and fiancée shared a smile. “We have to work this situation
out without me going to prison for bigamy.”
“I agree, the last thing you need is another
outstanding warrant. So let’s talk about making an honest woman of this lovely
young lady.”
“Honest woman?” Leia scoffed. “I’ll have you know, he
was my boytoy for years.”
“No one is honest with this scoundrel in their life. I
was an upstanding citizen before I met him, and returned to being one after I
kicked him to the curb.”
“Hey, you didn’t dump me. I dumped you like a sack of
void-grown potatoes!”
Lando dismissed that with a wave of his hand. “Let’s
get back on track. Now that I know of your happy plans, I can file the papers
and you can walk away a free man.”
“All right! Fine! We can do that.” Han crossed his
arms and looked away while Lando leaned back, face neutral. Leia gave them a
long, thoughtful look.
“Or,” she reached over and placed a hand on Lando’s
arm. “We can file a different set of papers.”
(Six years later)
The communication link beeped, and Lando’s feet paused
mid-pace. He spun to face the screen, cape swirling, while Han’s face filled
his wall.
“How’s Leia? Did it go well?”
“Swimmingly. Well, literally. This water birth is
really something.”
“I told you she’d take to it.” Lando broke out in a
smile. “She and the baby both doing okay? How’s Ben taking it?”
“I’m doing very well after eight hours of attending
our wife, thank you.” Han’s faux annoyance relaxed into a grin. “Everyone’s
fine. Ben is fascinated with his new little sib. I knew you’d be worried so I
called right away.”
Lando closed his eyes for a moment. “Thank the stars.
What about the baby? Do you have a feed?”
Han pressed a button and the screen split to show live
video of a newborn’s cot where a baby slept, tiny mouth smacking from time to
time. Lando’s smile froze and his mouth fell open at the sight of the curled
hair and brown skin.
“Stay right as you are, I promised Leia I’d get a
recording of the look on your face.”
“Uhhh… is this… was it that one time at Corellia
with the three of us we never talk about?”
“No, it’s that one time at Coruscant we never talk
about. You know, when you had to be rushed to Medbay-”
“We don’t talk about that, remember.” Lando held up a
finger. “It never happened.”
“The medical droid couldn’t find any records of a
human pulling that particular musc-“
“I said, it never happened.”
“Whatever you say.”
Lando let out a breath. “Well.”
“All I’m saying is we expect you to be here to change
a lot of diapers, buddy.”
“Are you sure? I think the baby has your eyes.”
Despite the appraising gaze he cast at the baby’s half of the screen, Lando’s
eyes shone with pride as he followed the infant’s every sigh and squirm.
“There’s all of us in this kid.” Han’s face took on
the same gentle look as he watched the sleeping baby. “You’ll be here in time
for the naming ceremony?”
“Count on it.”
“I know I can.”
“Give Leia and Ben my love. And…” Lando gestured at
the screen. “To the baby, of course.”
“I will. See you soon, Lando.”
“And you, Han.”
The link cut off, leaving Lando staring into space
with a dazed and happy look. Then he shook himself and walked out, calling for
the Dantooinian sparkling wine he had ordered and for celebrations to
begin.
Bringing this back in light of Daisy Ridley’s recent revelation that Finn and Rey are brother and sister! Called it on Finn Organa-Calrissian and Rey Organa-Solo 😄
(Here’s a three-part anon I received that I will be copy-and-pasting
into the post so I can redact a slur without sacrificing readability. I
have added line breaks to the ask for ease of reading. You can look below the fold for
screenshots of the ask.)
Anonymous said: Here’s my thing about Reylo/Kylo and stories about Kylo joining
the resistance. I might think Kylo is boring as fuck but I get the
appeal. I like the idea of the asshole bigot who decides to stop being
that and becomes a protagonist ( Finn switches sides but was from his
intro was never [a] [gendered slur redacted] like Kylo).
I like the Idea of Draco befriending
Harry and co in HP. And playing around with canon is fun in fics. But
here’s the thing. I didn’t actively want other characters to be depicted as terrible in order for Draco to be sympathetic.
Especially not when they were shown to be decent people in canon. Even
in AUs where it’s fun to play around with affiliations making characters
unambiguously bad to make your fav look good is boring in general. It’s
possible to have Draco switch sides and be a good guy with out making
the weaselys or Hermione or Harry look terrible.
In the same way you
wanna have Kylo switch sides? Write your self indulgent Kylo bonds with the main trio fic ?
Fine I won’t complain. But you can still do it without demonizing Finn
Poe and the rest of the resistance. You can still do it without trying
to make Nazis out to be not that bad. You can still do it without this
false equivalence of you are just as evil as the evil you fight just by
fighting it bullshit. You can still do it without saying war makes it ok
to torture people and face no repercussions or (ask appears to cut off at this point, though it is marked 3/3)
As I have written about before,
I’m a longtime fan of villains and morally gray characters. I
absolutely understand the obsession with villains, the desire to see
them redeemed, and the urge to explore their moral complexity.
Villain
fandom only really works for me, though, if the characters are still villains.
There are few fans as annoying as villain fans who insist their faves
are not villains. Character assassination is one of the ways people go
about woobifying villains, and like you I find it boring as fuck because
it’s no longer based on the canon I love, just a distortion made to fit a laughably transparent agenda.
Btw, though I use “villain” as a shorthand, I don’t necessarily think Draco Malfoy was a villain, at least not in the sense of Kylo or a lot of the nasties in the HP universe for that matter. Draco was a mean-spirited and arrogant bully but he couldn’t bring himself to murder one helpless person, to say nothing of hundreds. I never liked the character much, but it was refreshing to see a bad person (still a kid at the time) draw back from the edge.
Poe and Rey at first is a lot of Rey saying something v #weird and Poe just smiling and being like “Yeah! Haha 😀” like Someone complains about the food in the mess and Rey is like “I had to eat (like some weird sand burrowing bug) and it wasn’t as bad as this” and she’s like licking her plate and everyone’s like uhh.. and Poe’s like “there’s apparently these huge slugs on this planet that live deep in the ground near lakes but when it rains they crawl up to the mud and you can see them just beneath the surface Finn told me they create pockets to get water to their nests and eat dying tree roots” and Rey like wants to go catch one immediately to see one
It is an utterly tragic theory, which is why it could end up being true. Remember George Lucas’ famous quote about Star Wars “It’s like poetry, it rhymes.”
Tell me how the story of Rey being that she was a child kidnapped from her loving parents, which tore apart her family leading to her brother’s eventual fall into darkness and her parent’s marriage to break down, then having finally been reunited with her father have him torn from her before a proper realization and who killed him, her own brother isn’t poetic.
Rey Solo rhymes like poetry, it’s heart-wrenching storyline. It could give the audience a reason to feel for Kylo Ren like Rian Johnson wants us too. If they end up framing it that Ben Solo became Kylo Ren due his sister being “killed” by Snoke then the audience would have a reason to feel for Kylo Ren.
Cause right now they are just claiming we should without giving us a reason to really. What’s there to like about an overly spoiled 30-year-old man who fell into darkness at 24, slaughtered all of his uncle’s padawans, and murdered his father. There is nothing to really root for in that storyline.
Similarly that Vader’s storyline would be meaningless without realizing he’s Luke’s father. Learning that Kylo’s fall into darkness might have been due to Snoke purposely breaking apart the Solo family, gives you a reason to feel for him. Just like it makes Han and Leia’s actions make sense, why were they neglectful of Kylo and completely focused on work because their grief for Rey was too great.
Everything makes sense with Rey Solo theory.
Another way it rhymes: Kylo would have fallen by the machinations of the guy he ended up serving, a guy who creeped on him and groomed him from a young age, much like Anakin. They’re still both responsible for their own actions, but there’s a pathos in the genuine tragedy they suffered and their human, if wrongful, reactions to the traps set for them. “Mom and Dad didn’t pay enough attention to me” just… doesn’t… cut it. If that’s the case then Kilo really is a cartoon villain and I hope he gets easten by a rathtar and farted out in pieces.
Finnpoe: Am I the first ship here? Well this is gonna be lonel-
Finnrey: Hi!
Finnpoe: Oh hey there, buddy! You seem like a nice ship, let’s be friends and not care which one of us is endgame?
Finnrey: That sounds great!
Finnpoe: Cool!
Finnpoe/Finnrey: 🙂
Finnrose: You know nothing about me, but I seem really nice and I’m probably gonna be awesome
Finnpoe/Finnrey: Sure! Come join us!
Finnpoe/Finnrey/Finnrose: Looks like we’re gonna be the Trio of-
Reyrose: 😉
Finnpoe/Finnrey/Finnrose: *takes Reyrose into the fold*
Finnpoe/Finnrey/Finnrose/Reyrose: The Quartet of Good and Wholesome Star Wars ships!! Yay us!
Reylo: can I join?
Finnrose: oh sorry guys, I think I forgot to shut the door when I came in *slams door* OK that’s more like it. Now where we?
‘There’s a big part of the story yet to be written and not by me,” says Johnson, who will hand the trilogy back to The Force Awakens filmmaker J.J. Abrams for 2019’s Episode IX. “But I don’t think it’s very interesting if the whole story is just ‘Will Kylo get his comeuppance?’ He’s a more complicated character than that and I think he deserves a more complicated story than that. I don’t see the point of trying to get behind his mask and learn more about him if all we’re going to learn is ‘Yeah, he’s just an evil bad guy that needs to be killed.’
RIAN, MAYBE YOU’RE THE ONLY ONE WHO WANTED TO GET BEHIND HIS MASK AND LEARN ABOUT HIM, BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE JUST SEES HIM AS THE GENOCIDAL SHIT WHO KILLED HAN SOLO AND DESERVES COMEUPPANCE. Star Wars is a hot mess of a camel and no one told Rian that the horse isn’t supposed to have a hump.
Honestly, look around at your own fucking industry right now in 2017, Rian. Like… idk, roughly 51% of the planet, is pretty damn interested in the story of “bad guy/sexual predator gets his comeuppance” and it’s… creepy that you’re not. The most interesting choice SW could make imo is to resist the tropey, boring, trite, puritanical idea of “feeling guilty counts as taking responsibility and forgiveness is an inherent right, so don’t bother changing (if you’re a white guy).” We already got that with Vader. Unless you write Kyle’s “complexity” as working his ASS off to actually correct his mistakes – and he never can; he killed them by the billion – then miss me with it. There’s nothing someone complicit in genocide can do to be worthy of forgiveness or empathy.
And fwiw: sure, Kyle is complex. But so are Rey and Finn and Poe and Luke and Leia, and they deserve fully-rounded, complicated, complex stories that don’t revolve around your edgelord self-insert. The setup you got for TFA allowed Rey, Finn, Poe, Luke, and Leia immense room for growth and change. If you put their stories on hold to create complexity where there really wasn’t that much for Kyle, that’s on you if (and hopefully when) JJ takes back his own fucking characters and undoes your nazi-loving bullshit by giving the heroes’ journey back to the heroes.
Rian, we already HAD a complex, interesting character take off his mask to show the audience there was a story underneath. His name is Finn. You fucked up.
L.J.'s Obsessions 