Tag: shipping

By even considering reylo you are doing what you claim to be against, I’m sorry but seeing someone so loud about being an anti and then it appears they ship reylo even if its aus or whatever makes me wary and wonder when are you genuine about repulsed by reylo fandom’s bullshit or just want to cater to the anti community

What did I claim to be against? I have never, not once, said people should not ship reylo. I have repeatedly said people can ship what they want. I have spoken against erasing and demonizing Finn. I have spoken against whitewashing, I’ve spoken against woobifying a villain, I have spoken against abuse apologism and war crimes apologism. If you think I have done any of these things I have been against, you’ll have to explain how.

If you don’t think I’m genuine in being repulsed by the crap thay goes on in reylow fandom then nothing I say can convince you. I don’t say this to blame you, you probably have good reason to be wary and I’m certainly not automatically entitled to anyone’s trust. I mean, just literally, I can’t say anything to convince you. There’s nothing I can say in one post that would outweigh what I’ve said in the three previous asks I’ve gotten on the subject, to say nothing of 2.5 years of fandom blogging.

If you think anyone who even entertains thoughts of reylo (even in disgust) or creates reylo content (even ones critical of the whole idea) is not worth your trust, then you should by no means trust me. And again, you must have your reasons for that, so listen to yourself. Trying to make yourself trust someone you have already lost faith in is not fair to you, and repeatedly demanding proof beyond the honest answers I’ve already given is not fair to me.

By saying “what is shipping anyways” it seems like you’re trying to avoid the question. The fact that you have headcanons and have thought about the possible outcomes of it all is pretty telling. If you ship it just say it so we can know who we can and can’t trust. Don’t try to excuse yourself.

It’s not like there was an entire elucidation of the different meanings of shipping right below, right? I have said exactly where I stand on each of those senses, so if anything it was the opposite of an evasion. If you can see me say I would abandon SW if reylow became canon, that I think it’s abusive and toxic, that their bs widdle woobie Ben Solo only exists to erase Finn, if you’ve seen me rail against reylows’ abuse apologism, war crimes apologism, misogyny, and racism for close to three years now and you still can’t trust me–then you won’t trust me no matter what. Simple as that.

So you ship rey/lo then?

What even is the meaning of shipping? There are actually multiple meanings.

Canonshipping as endgame? Hell to the nooooo. As I have said multiple times, if that happens SW is dead to me.

Fanshipping? Only in the sense I think it’s a horrible abusive dynamic, and not even the most interesting I’ve seen tbh. Also the fan community for reylow is horrible and I’m not going near it.

Hateshipping might be an applicable term, as in I totally hate the idea and examining why can be interesting.

Crackshipping, kinda. I think that’s what it is at heart anyway. My Blurred Lines video is all kinds of (disturbing, horrible) crack.

Cope shipping might actually apply, since I experienced the kinds of isolation and gaslighting tactics Kylo used on Rey. Definitely not in the sense that I’m going to pretend it’s healthy and that shitty treatment equals love. I told that lie to myself for too long, and it almost destroyed my life. I’m definitely not going to tell that lie to others.

May I ask why you produced reylo content? Was it more an exercise in trying to write that dynamic or something else? Maybe it’s hard for me to understand because in my view, there is nothing interesting, new or exciting about Rey and Kylo’s dynamic at all, and I find Kylo Ren and Adam Driver to be physically unattractive. But I am curious about what people who I know to be non-reylos “see” in that ship in a creative sense.

I find that dynamic interesting in a horrible kind of way, yes. The manipulation, the way Kylo tears Rey down, uses her vulnerabilities against her, and tries to make her depend on him. I’ve discussed this before but he reminds me of my dad that way, maybe because all abusers have the same playbook in the end–insisting the people who love and accept you do not truly love you, that he is the only one who understands you and has your interests at heart, that he hurts you for your own good, that you deserve this treatment, that he is the best you are ever going to get.

The first piece of reylow content I produced was a headcanon/outline type post about Jedi Rey and convicted war criminal Ben Solo in a complicated and painful prison romance (link). If BS is as redeemed as he’s ever going to get, paying his debt to society and doing some good as a former terrorist who understands and knows the FO, would a romance between them work? It’s certainly not a straightforward and fluffy romance in my envisioning, but rather one tainted by mixed motivations and likely traumatic bonding.

In retrospect I think I gave BS way too much credit, even if the intention was to give him all the advantages I could think of. Now that I read the post over I think he’d be at best a “well actually” and “both sides” type of conversationist about the war, deceitful and revisionist in his recountings. (”Well actually we were more well-intentioned extremists…” “What about the civilians on the Death Stars? Doesn’t it say something that my idols growing up were Uncle Luke and Uncle Lando, who–from a certain point of view–were as much mass murderers as I turned out to be?”) The New Republic would never give him a public platform for fear of radicalizing others, despite repeated requests, and he would complain about freedom of speech lmao.

I also think now that Rey should be at most snookered briefly before she sees through his self-serving dishonesty and walks away for good. Tee el jay already did that story, though, so I don’t see the need to retell it. An older and more confident Rey wouldn’t even fall for BS’s bs anyway. The thought of BS being a sealion yammering away in prison is somewhat entertaining, though.

The other piece of shipping content I produced was a fan video to Blurred Lines (link). Yes, the Rape Song. I found it hilarious and horrible at the same time to work on, laughing at the whole idea of reylow as a wholesome or fluffy ship, not to mention the deplorable fandom conventions surrounding it. I did tag it #anti reylo rather than #reylo as a courtesy to shippers, especially ones who might be sexual assault survivors.

I’ve wondered since, though. Doesn’t my Blurred Lines video count as shipping material? Don’t the so-called anti-reylo edits like the “It’s not a fucking woman’s job” one (link)? Can it only be considered shipping content if it’s fluffy or at least ultimately affirming of the ship? For something like reylow, in particular, isn’t poking fun at the grossness of the whole concept also a valid part of shipping, provided everything is tagged and warned appropriately of course? In a section of the fandom that has Handmaid’s Tale AUs and Native American AUs and teacher-student AUs, why should only material that says rape is actually uhhh bad be off limits? Since when do we hold up romance as some ultimate purity of feeling, when romantic attraction can be as destructive and fucked up as any other urge we have? 

So yeah. I produced reylow or “Reylo” content not in the sense that mainstream shippers do with their fake Bullshit Solo who only exists to erase and one-up Finn’s trauma. That fakeness is what makes me nauseous about the ship, not the idea of exploring these characters’ dynamics including in a romantic or sexual sense. (But as for actual sex… nah. Like you I find Adam unattractive, and the farthest I’m comfortable going is KR as a rapey incel who gets his teeth kicked in by Rey.) I enjoy poking and prodding at an abusive fictional relationship. What I hate is the lie that it’s not abusive.

stormscavenger:

lj-writes:

Do people even have the concept anymore that you can find something awful and fascinating at the same time? Like, I found Catra and Adora’s dynamic exciting, engrossing, and very, very gay. That doesn’t mean I am obliged to go around defending Catra’s every action or insisting she has to be redeemed. (I sure hope not, that would be weaksauce when she’s worked so hard to be her own person and the villain she wanted to be.) You won’t catch me going around saying that trying to kill Adora or bring about eternal winter is fine and child soldiers aren’t responsible for their actions even after they’re grown up and have been given clear chances to turn away. Adora doesn’t owe Catra a solitary shit when she’s tried for the entirety of Season 1 to get her to leave and got a nice payback in the form of attempted murder.

Do I ship it in the sense of liking the dynamic and enjoying the content? Fuck yeah! Tragedy! Villainy! Internal conflict! Bring it on! Do I ship it in the sense that I insist it must be pure and perfect because I personally like it, endlessly justify Catra’s shitty treatment of Adora and outright war crimes, and flood every tag insisting that the Rebellion are just as bad as the Horde and that Glimmer, Angella et al. are the true villains? Hell no.

(Not saying Catradora fans do this, by the way. I am referring to the behavior of a different group of annoying fans.)

If you take this as me saying you shouldn’t ship Catradora and you are a bad person if you ship it because it’s wrong and bad and impure, congratulations, you have proved you have no reading comprehension whatsofuckingever and are just putting words in my mouth, whether out of stupidity or malice.

If you think I have ever tried to dictate what other people ship beyond expressing personal distaste in the proper tags and calling for civil behavior, then congratulations, you are a liar. Fuck, I’ve even produced reylow content depicting it as the unhealthy, abusive, borderline rapey ship I see it as, and would have done more if I saw it as romantic at all (which, for the reading challenged, does not mean that you are not allowed to) and if that section of the fandom were not such a misogynistic, racist, abuse apologist nightmare.

Furthermore, if you think calling out a group or individual’s bullshit in the tags reserved for that without even interacting with them is the same thing as harassing and policing them, then CONGRATULATIONS you are a silencing piece of shit who wants to shut down opinions that differ from yours by disingenuously conflating criticism with harassment. You winner of a person you.

I think I understand where you’re coming from. This is basically how I felt when I said I wanted to analyze the relationship between Jennifer and Khalil 

God I have SO MANY FEELS about Jen and Khalil (didn’t read your post past the title though because I’ve only just started Season 2). I remember the aching headcanons I had of them, an AU where Khalil does not fall into Whale’s clutches but graduates with honors though a year late, gets into wheelchair sports, and he and Jen dance at prom with him spinning in his wheelchair circles around her as she laughs and whirls in turn, and her sitting across his lap for the slow dance, forehead to forehead as they sway… and they do lose their virginity to each other, maybe not in the exact way they originally envisioned but spending the sexiest, wildest, tenderest and most caring first night they could have imagined. And it would have been awkward and hilarious too at times, and they would have laughed and cried and cuddled through it all.

I loved Khalil and Jennifer’s budding romance and I want a Khalil redemption and possible KhalJen so bad, though his actions and her own trauma probably brought them far past the possibility of my innocent AU. I just feel so desperately sorry for these kids 😭

Good day. I have always enjoyed reading your views on the SW fandoms blind willfulness to ignorance. With your message to Jason Fry, and what he said. I am beginning to think episode IX will not have a romance. Rey will be single and they will pair Finn with Rose or some crap. To avoid the whole fandom drama with an interracial couple. This will be the 1st SW movie with no main romance, cowardly as it will be. What’s are your thoughts on that possibility.

diversehighfantasy:

I think it’s possible. With JJ at the wheel, I don’t think either Finn or Rey will have an endgame romance with anyone else, but I think it’s possible that it ends like the first Pacific Rim, where Mako and Raleigh were together, but there’s no kiss or overt proof of romance.

I hated the ambiguity of Mako/Raleigh in PR, because it called to mind the ‘90s Hollywood movies starring Chow Yun Fat and Jet Li, where they could be heroes, but they couldn’t kiss the girl (not just the white girl – Jet Li’s kiss with Aaliyah in Romeo Must Die was cut because it made test audiences uncomfortable. Romeo Must Die was a modern retelling of Romeo and Juliet, but test audience didn’t like the idea of a Chinese Romeo and a Black Juliet kissing). Or, more directly, Will Smith iRobot and I am Legend.

I think it’s more likely that Finn and Rey get a “safe” ambiguous ending together than an ending that shoots down Finnrey completely. I do think that would be cowardly. I don’t think it’s something JJ is afraid of – he unapologetically brought Spuhura to the screen even though it was an unpopular move with fans, including a huge number of passionate Spirk shippers. But, of course, JJ won’t have the last word.

The first two trilogies ended with hope for the future far more than romance. Both ended with Luke and Leia, and I think Luke and Leia will have a place in the ending of ix. The hope for the future, though, is Finn and Rey. It’s more important to me that Finn’s importance is made clear than anything else.

I’m rooting for an onscreen kiss but if they go with a strong and intimate friendship I won’t be broken up about it, just annoyed that Lucasfilm are being cowards in 20fucking19. I’ll just take John’s going to bat for Finnrey as canon confirmation, another reason I doubt Finnrose or Damerey would happen even if explicit Finnrey doesn’t. Daisy also shot down Damerey almost as hard as Reylow anyway. It would be even better if we get post-IX materials mentioning/featuring a Finnrey romance and children, since the franchise seems less gun-shy away from the big screen.

jewishcomeradebot:

What if Rose and Poe gets together in IX?

They have an already established relationship that goes back quite a bit before TLJ and Poe obviously likes Rose a lot. And Rose like Poe in return.

Not to mention that Poe’s, “How did did you two meet?”, followed by, “Good luck?”, when Rose answers, “Just luck”, can easily read as jealousy of Finn. 

He has been developing romantic feelings for Rose but haven’t found the place and time to talk to her about it and now suddenly here’s Finn, the gorgeous, dashing young man who Rose obviously likes a lot and he feels defeated. Not that he think Rose owes him anything, he just wishes that Rose would look at him the way she looks at Finn. 

And Rose clearly trust Poe above all else. Having outgrown her unhealthy hero worship of Finn and realized that she’s all the hero she’s ever going to need would make for an excellent basis for a romance between her and Poe.

Evidently there’s a passage in Star Wars Adventures where Rose saves Poe’s life by opening the Raddus’s hangar door where no one else knew how to. She’d just been… like… reading the manual like the giant dork she is. I can imagine her really standing out to him from that moment on.

lj-writes:

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Reylo, Reysma, and Reylutt: The holy trinity of crackships

@leg-grestrade Whoa, no need to bite @faithfire’s head off! There are a lot of different ways to ship characters, including crackshipping and darkshipping. Much as I dislike mainstream shippers’ abuse apologism and war crimes apologism, their obnoxious brand of canonshipping isn’t the only type possible. I understand you’re angry at the way you and your friends have been treated by reylow shippers, but the way to deal with it is not to jump at people whose meaning you may not be clear about. If you want to talk about it my messages and inbox are open, but don’t snap like this at people on my post, okay?