thecringeandwincefactory:

downhomesophisticate:

LOUDER

Residential schools, Indian schools, Stolen generations, Lost children of Francoism, Germanization, q.v.

[image description: a tweet by @jessewente that says, “colonial states separate children from parents because they know it works. it destroys and traumatizes for generations. it’s an attack on the future as well as the present. it’s not a partisan issue, it’s a colonial one.” end id]

Separation of enslaved Black families in the United States, the Catholic Church’s refusal to return Jewish children after baptizing them during WWII*

* Hiding the children with Christian families, to be fair, helped save their lives but the intent to erase the children’s Jewishness after the danger had passed is also clear–the Vatican literally said baptism “cancels the Jew,” holy shit

Omg! The destruction of Alderaan is not the Holocaust! It’s not even close to an approximation. Is it genocide? Yes. But genocides takes a whole lot of forms and the Holocaust as it happened to Jews and Romani people is just one. The destruction of Alderaan has NOTHING of the persecution and killings of us that Jews and Romani people endure for centuries, it hasn’t got the interment camps or any of it. It’s a genocide but goyim fucking gotta stop using the Holocaust for every genocide

die-sphinx:

lj-writes:

lj-writes:

Yeah, there were and are unfortunately a lot of genocides throughout history and they come in a lot of different forms. The Holocaust was a very specific event and is not a stand-in for all genocides omg. There’s no ground for comparing Alderaan to the Holocaust, and as far as I can tell it seems to be based solely on the meaning of the word being stretched beyond all recognition, coupled with the galactic-level reach of Leia being played by a Jewish actress.

The dictionary definition is kinda clear – it means a mass genocide, so I
understand why people use it. And Carrie was of mixed heritage – I dont
know if she even identified herself with being Jewish, tbh.
But i wouldnt call the destruction of Alderaan a holocaust – it reminds
me more of the destruction of The Temple – and Alderaanians being
scattered across the galaxy in diasporas, longing for their former peace
and glory.

@die-sphinx No, used as a proper noun it means “the mass slaughter of European civilians and especially [Jewish people] by the Nazis during World War II“ (link). This was the sense in which the questioner used the word in the ask, capitalized as a proper noun.

Small-h “holocaust” does have an older meaning of sacrifice or destruction by fire (not generic genocide), but the word has become so strongly identified with that one historical genocide that it’s iffy even to use it uncapitalized in other contexts imo. As far as I’m concerned, if a word is stained with the blood from the torture, enslavement, mutilation, rape, and murder of millions of your ancestors then you as a group have earned that word many times over and it belongs to you.

holocaustˈhɒləkɔːst/noun1.destruction or slaughter on a mass scale, especially caused by fire or nuclear war.“a nuclear holocaust"synonimy:cataclysm, disaster, catastrophe, destruction, devastation, demolition, annihilation, ravaging;

Holocaust written with a capital letter is the destruction of Jews and Roma. I never said it aint. But the word was “normilized” and gained another meaning – after all, it used to mean something completely different and wasnt associated with Shoah.

Yes, I am from Poland – do you have a problem with that? Just like millions of Jews who considered themselves Poles as well. Wanna walk about wartime trauma in Central and Eastern Europe? Because, you know, we are still affected deeply by the shit that happened 70 years ago.
The slaughter of Jews and destruction of their heritage is simply unbearable to me thus my interest in Jewish culture – they were an integral part of Poland for over a millenium. Their suffering is undenialable – but it doesnt give their descendants the monopoly express war trauma. Sure, The Holocaust is “theirs” – but its not the only mass slaughter and genocide during the war and not only Jews died in concentration camps – other groups also have the right to use similar symbolism. Nazis targeted not only Jews. The slaughter of Poles, Russians, Belarussians, Ukrainians and others was horrific and unimaginable as well – millions of people died, cities were destroyed, whole villages were wiped out.

Who has the right to take our right to cope with trauma? We also “have the right’ to be victims of Nazis. My grandfather liberated Berlin and avenged the dead and suffering – no Westerner is going to take away “the heritage” of being both the victim and the victor of Nazism.

Za głód, za krew, za lata łez.

Im still sick and tired of antisemitic bullshit going on in Poland. But Im also sick and tired of blatant antislavic or antipolish sentiments that are tolerated online. You dont want your communities belitteled and generalised because of some assholes that bring you a bad name, so…
Maybe antipolonism is acceptable on tumblr, who knows? Apparently using someones nationality as an argument is OK here. How ironic.

Yes, I know her mother was Jewish and that “makes you a Jew” technically, but Im talking about cultural heritage, not biological (lets say). Unless she didnt identify as such, I dont think we can really call her Jewish – she still had that “goyim” part in her. I’ve just never read anything about her embracing Jewish identity, but maybe I missed something.

So… it doesn’t actually mean a genocide in small-h, and we’re actually in agreement about what it means in large-H. The original ask capitalized the word, you can see it for yourself, so there was really no point of contention (link).

I’ve already talked about the “normalization” aspect in my previous addition so I won’t repeat myself.

No, I don’t have a problem with Polish people in general. I do have a problem with Polish Gentiles who seem to have no self-awareness about their country’s historical role in the Holocaust and seem to believe they have a say over Jewish people in how it is discussed. For that matter, I have a problem with anyone who plays Oppression Olympics against a marginalized group. First of all who said Jewish people had a monopoly on suffering, and second of all who would want such a monopoly? Nobody said no other group but Jewish and Romani people suffered from the Nazis or that only Jewish people could use Nazi imagery, holy shit. We were literally talking about the proper usage of a word?

And please don’t assume I would react like you are right now, not everyone gets hyper-defensive about the crimes of their ancestors. If someone told me I as a non-Vietnamese Korean have no right to talk over Vietnamese people in discussing the Vietnam War, especially given Korean military forces’ crimes against Vietnamese people, I would entirely agree. I’m certainly not going to go on a rant about how the Vietnamese people were not the only ones to suffer because that’s just embarrassing lmao.

Omg! The destruction of Alderaan is not the Holocaust! It’s not even close to an approximation. Is it genocide? Yes. But genocides takes a whole lot of forms and the Holocaust as it happened to Jews and Romani people is just one. The destruction of Alderaan has NOTHING of the persecution and killings of us that Jews and Romani people endure for centuries, it hasn’t got the interment camps or any of it. It’s a genocide but goyim fucking gotta stop using the Holocaust for every genocide

lj-writes:

Yeah, there were and are unfortunately a lot of genocides throughout history and they come in a lot of different forms. The Holocaust was a very specific event and is not a stand-in for all genocides omg. There’s no ground for comparing Alderaan to the Holocaust, and as far as I can tell it seems to be based solely on the meaning of the word being stretched beyond all recognition, coupled with the galactic-level reach of Leia being played by a Jewish actress.

The dictionary definition is kinda clear – it means a mass genocide, so I
understand why people use it. And Carrie was of mixed heritage – I dont
know if she even identified herself with being Jewish, tbh.
But i wouldnt call the destruction of Alderaan a holocaust – it reminds
me more of the destruction of The Temple – and Alderaanians being
scattered across the galaxy in diasporas, longing for their former peace
and glory.

@die-sphinx No, used as a proper noun it means “the mass slaughter of European civilians and especially [Jewish people] by the Nazis during World War II“ (link). This was the sense in which the questioner used the word in the ask, capitalized as a proper noun.

Small-h “holocaust” does have an older meaning of sacrifice or destruction by fire (not generic genocide), but the word has become so strongly identified with that one historical genocide that it’s iffy even to use it uncapitalized in other contexts imo. As far as I’m concerned, if a word is stained with the blood from the torture, enslavement, mutilation, rape, and murder of millions of your ancestors then you as a group have earned that word many times over and it belongs to you.

upperpaleolithic:

lj-writes:

upperpaleolithic:

lj-writes:

upperpaleolithic:

In doing my research for this paper, I stumbled across the coldest take I have ever seen. This bitch is trying to say that the Dred Scott case and Roe v Wade show equal disregard for strict definitions of who counts as human under the protections of the constitution, and I tell you what I’m not fucking reading this shit.

Fuck these anti-abortion fake comparisons, I’m done.

Like! Listen to this shit this is in the abstract:

Both Dred Scott and Roe v. Wade erred not by engaging substantive moral questions but rather by denying, in different ways, the natural rights of human persons.

idk man but uhhh I seem to remember Roe v Wade having some science somewhere in there you fucking troglodyte what the fuck??

Also what is the natural “right” to an unwilling person’s body parts asdfdklgl

What a great fucking question! I tried reading some more but it just got messier like b u d d y. I cannot fathom how far up your own racist ass you have to be to even remotely entertain discussion that “yeah slaves are cool” is in any way equitable to “you have a right to an abortion” like???

Oh it’s one of anti-abortionists’ favorite comparisons, right up there with the Holocaust. I’ve never seen a human tragedy they don’t like to appropriate for their own agenda.

diversity-instarwars:

shiny-shock:

every clone trooper was genetically human, copied and edited but still a sapient being and still an individual, in the same way that identical twins are each their own fully realized individuals. they all had their own unique set of experiences and their own distinct mental presence in the force. any force sensitive could tell you that.

defective clones were culled, executed for no fault other than a chemical flaw that made their bodies less than perfect. their souls were deemed not worth the effort, and what happened to the bodies? on kamino, almost definitely not a respectful burial. most likely recycling. composting maybe, like so many kitchen scraps. usable organic matter is a precious resource on a planet that can’t import or grow much.

and the republic gave them no citizenship, declaring them not to be people, making them as expendable as a battleship or ammunition. the general public thought they were nothing more than droids, and no one ever bothered to teach otherwise. even the jedi, who should know better than anyone, didn’t speak out, at least not loud enough. they violated their own ideals by their silence. considered non-persons by the government and by society, the clones were expected to give their lives for a jedi or a civvie without hesitation. a clone’s life was worth nothing, not when compared to that of a real person.

the planets of the republic were soaked in the blood of nameless, faceless thousands. it started with the grand army of the republic and when the galactic empire rose, the same facelessness inflicted upon the clones was taken a step further, to civilian children, taken from their homes, stripped of individuality, given a mask in exchange for personhood. the imperial stormtroopers weren’t people originally created for war, like the clones, but they were still pushed into it, treated as anonymous cannon fodder by empire and rebels alike.

the sith came to power in high places, but at the ground level, not much changed. the name of the ruling power changes over the centuries but the underlying evil is always the same: sacrificing another’s life to your own. dehumanization of those being sacrificed is just an anaesthetic for guilt.

the story of the clone troopers is an allegory that we should all struggle with, especially in a world where slavery is unthinkable yet abortion is widely legalized and celebrated.

it’s a story that wrestles with personhood and humanity, intrinsic worth of living beings, government authority, sacrifice and self-sacrifice.

the clones are my favorite thing about star wars. they should make us all THINK. and if you’re horrified by the fictional story but okay with the true ones, then please, rethink your position.

Okay–can you not compare slavery to abortion? You were making sense up until that point.

As someone who is a descent of slaves and can relate to the clone troopers on that aspect–I find your comparison disturbing and extremely racist. One is horrible and strips the life of sentient, living human beings, while the other is to protect the rights and bodies of women (and trans men and non-binary folks, etc..). They are not to be compared.

This is even more racist because various slaves who were raped by their slave masters had any form of birth control (i.e abortion) taken from them because they were slaves. Because they didn’t have rights because of slavery. There are many women of color, living in areas where they or their ancestors were treated like slaves or worse. They were and still are denied their basic human rights and that includes, and still includes the right to abortion and birth control.

To compare slavery–something that takes someone’s rights and dignity away, to abortion–something that supports the rights of marginalized people, and has worked to protect the rights of marginalized people like slaves specifically people of color who are slaves (like the clones), is extremely racist and ignorant.

And looking at your selfies–i can tell you are not black and you do not look like a person of color–if you are, correct me. But you are not black, and to use slavery to prove your racist and sexist point is incredibly disrespectful to me and other slave descendants. Keep the clones out of your mouth if you’re gonna spout some racist rhetoric to get your harmful point across.