Tag: space fights

themandalorianwolf:

lj-writes:

jewishcomeradebot:

themandalorianwolf:

“Finn is the military part of the trilogy, him having the force wouldn’t work.”

Characters who have had the force and were also apart of the military aspects:

Kanan Jarrus

Ezra Bridger

Ahsoka Tano

Luke Skywalker

Rey

General Leia Organa

EVERY SINGLE JEDI IN TCW THAT WENT BY GENERAL OR COMMANDER

The force and the military have never been separated. Even TLJ, can’t erase the fact that Rey specifically says she’s with the Resistance and was sent to Luke because of them.

Finn can have the force and be a commander in the Resistance. Y’all just looking for reasons to make him less important. It’s a you problem, not a Finn problem.

It’s kinda funny, because people have been trying to make a case for Han having the Force since 1977, no matter that his arc was about becoming a responsible leader and a general. Funny how having the Force was and is not see as ruining his character and that fans thought it’d work brilliantly for him, but somehow it’s a detriment to Finn?

[insert thinking emoji]

Also missing: any serious fandom speculation of Lando having the Force, despite his piloting and brilliant tactical judgment saving the day. Nah, Lando’s got to be the Everyman even though he clearly isn’t, I wonder why? 🤣

I’ve seen every excuse why Finn can’t be force sensitive.

“He lost to Nines and Kylo.”

Finn never used a lightsaber before and every SW protagonist has gotten their ass handed to them, including Rey the first time she met Kylo.

“He needs saving.”

He’s saved more people than anyone has saved him.

“He’s the Han Solo type”.

Han and Finn are fundamentally different, and even if he wasn’t, fans have been asking/claiming Han was force sensitive for decades.

“Finn’s the every man.”

Finn is an ex Stormtrooper who was stolen from his family, raised in a fascist organization and goes on an adventure with a homeless, an old pirate, and big foot. What the fuck kind of every man is that?

“Finn was a bait and switch to hide Rey being force sensitive and the real protagonist.”

Rey uses the force multiple different times that have no actual relation to Finn until she fights to save his life. Beyond that, Finn shows his own hints of being force sensitive, and he is the co-protagonist.

There is actually no reason for Finn not to be force sensitive beyond some people not lining the idea of it.

In addition to the above very valid points (bigfoot lmaoooo), Finn was in the 99% percentile in Stormtrooper training and considered officer material other than that pesky empathy of his. If he’s an Everyman then Bill Gates is a middle class dad.

lj-writes:

sithchirrut:

This line – “[Finn] is in another form of training alongside General Leia” – from John’s interview with Fandango for the D23 Expo, along with the theory @lj-writes​ came up with about Rose and Paige Tico belonging to the remnant of the Republic’s navy and being survivors of the Hosnian genocide and furthermore about the joining together of the Republic Navy and the Resistance, made me think about how the lines would be drawn up and what roles Rose, Finn and Poe could play.

For Finn I could imagine that he might have some issues with the top down authority of organized military even though he knows that the Republic isn’t the First Order, given that he’s been abused by such authorities his whole life. He might be siding squarely with Leia in any power struggle. (Finn as Leia’s protege? Is that what John’s line is hinting at?)

Poe is probably having a massive case of divided loyalties. He’s a Leia fanboy if there ever was one, but he’s also very much a man of the Republic. He only went against them not just because he was convinced that there had to be done something about the First Order, but because if it was Leia Organa who asked him. If it had been anyone else who led the Resistance, I’m not so sure he’d have joined them no matter his issues with the Republic. When the inevitable power struggle between whoever leads the Republic navy (Laura Dern’s character?) and Leia he might not know who to back, he’ll likely argue for joint collaboration, but given how much of the Republic feels about Leia… that might not be possible.

This leads me to Rose Tico. If @lj-writes​ theory is correct and Rose, Paige and Cobalt Squadron are part of the Republic navy, they’d likely fall at the other end of the conflict. I could see Rose as someone young and idealistic, who looks up to Finn because “omg a real living hero!”, but who’s also very firmly on the side of the Republic and who might see the Resistance as dangerously volatile. Not to mention resent them – openly or covertly – for “causing” the Hosnia genocide. Even though she might logically know that the only one who caused that was the First Order when they first built Starkiller Base and then fired it at a civilian system. But logic can mean little when you’re as deeply traumatized as all genocide survivors are.

Is that what Rose and Finn are talking about here?

image

Rose being passionate about the Republic – and maybe showing some of her pain from the destruction of her home? Finn understand her pain and objectively her position, but still holding his own?

And this scene (from the BTS video)

image

Is Rose and Poe agreeing on something? Maybe the Republic navy’s stance on something, while Finn is taking Leia’s position?

Thanks goes to @lj-writes for that meta and for subsequent discussion in private about Rose, Finn and Poe. Her’s is half the ideas in this.

I love how you’ve pieced together the different interviews and pics to elaborate on what TLJ might look like in case of a Republic-Resistance conflict! Yeah, the picture of Finn and Rose now that I see it again in that light could be confrontational. At the very least it looks really passionate. FinnRose feels ❤

Finn could fall squarely on Leia’s side, but my guess is she’ll have to give him a lot of freedom if she wants to keep him that way. He’ll take a long time to trust authority if he ever does, and he’s likelier to throw in with her if she offers him a path to something he wants (a plan for Stormtrooper liberation, perhaps? Breaking abducted children out of a First Order facility? Finding his family?). My guess is, she’ll need to become a partner rather than an authority figure to him if she wants his trust.

Then there’s the question of whether SHE can trust HIM after his bald-faced lie to her near the end of TFA. I mean he did it for a good cause and delivered on lowering the shields anyway so I doubt she’ll hold it against him, but she should at least know this young man is at least as ruthless and reckless as she is when it comes to doing the right thing. I wonder if she sees in him the young woman she was, with trauma the size of a planet and nothing to lose. I would not be surprised if she trains him as a leader the Resistance needs.

No, Leia won’t hold a grudge, but she should be wary because Finn is a man who smashed his own idols (Jewish hero Jewish hero) and holds nothing and no one sacred except perhaps his friends. On that note, Poe could be the trusted bridge between these two formidable personalities. I mean Leia can cut some slack for her son Poe’s boyfriend, right?

Also! Speaking of planet-sized trauma, can we FINALLY have Leia grapple with being a genocide survivor as she interacts with the Republic refugees? How ironic is it that this may become a conflict between those who have survived the unimaginable, a clash of pain against pain? Will she find common ground with the Admiral and Rose and Paige? Will they find themselves clawing at each others’ bleeding wounds and doing things to each other they couldn’t have imagined? (No that is not meant to be kinky, you perverts. *is a pervert*) And can a Star Wars movie finally do more than squeak by the Bechdel test?

Finally, that last pic to me looks almost conspiratorial. Maybe this isn’t the final shot and they’re adding things like control panels and holos, but for now with that setup and lighting it looks like a clandestine meeting, with too few people and an odd composition of a new recruit, a mechanic, and a pilot to be a formal meeting. Is this where they discuss the mission to the casino planet? Is this the start of their Hail Mary pass out of the Republic-Resistance conflict?

Thanks for liking my addition and the great new thoughts! (I like how it took three tries for Tumblr to tag me.) Thanks to your find about Cobalt Squadron I am suddenly so fired up about this movie.

Reminder that this pre-TLJ speculation still makes for a MUCH better Resistance plot than the one we got. Even more frustratingly, if you squint this is the story told in TLJ except far more meaningful. This was also back when I was actually excited about Finnrose, smh.

jewishcomeradebot:

themandalorianwolf:

“Finn is the military part of the trilogy, him having the force wouldn’t work.”

Characters who have had the force and were also apart of the military aspects:

Kanan Jarrus

Ezra Bridger

Ahsoka Tano

Luke Skywalker

Rey

General Leia Organa

EVERY SINGLE JEDI IN TCW THAT WENT BY GENERAL OR COMMANDER

The force and the military have never been separated. Even TLJ, can’t erase the fact that Rey specifically says she’s with the Resistance and was sent to Luke because of them.

Finn can have the force and be a commander in the Resistance. Y’all just looking for reasons to make him less important. It’s a you problem, not a Finn problem.

It’s kinda funny, because people have been trying to make a case for Han having the Force since 1977, no matter that his arc was about becoming a responsible leader and a general. Funny how having the Force was and is not see as ruining his character and that fans thought it’d work brilliantly for him, but somehow it’s a detriment to Finn?

[insert thinking emoji]

Also missing: any serious fandom speculation of Lando having the Force, despite his piloting and brilliant tactical judgment saving the day. Nah, Lando’s got to be the Everyman even though he clearly isn’t, I wonder why? 🤣

themandalorianwolf:

“Finn is the military part of the trilogy, him having the force wouldn’t work.”

Characters who have had the force and were also apart of the military aspects:

Kanan Jarrus

Ezra Bridger

Ahsoka Tano

Luke Skywalker

Rey

General Leia Organa

EVERY SINGLE JEDI IN TCW THAT WENT BY GENERAL OR COMMANDER

The force and the military have never been separated. Even TLJ, can’t erase the fact that Rey specifically says she’s with the Resistance and was sent to Luke because of them.

Finn can have the force and be a commander in the Resistance. Y’all just looking for reasons to make him less important. It’s a you problem, not a Finn problem.

lj-writes:

I don’t get why people think Finn both being a military leader and having the Force is somehow strange for Star Wars. After all, we have a rather outsized example of this already.

It’s not just the combination of Force and military abilities either, but also the characters’ story positions. Finn being the “war” part of the triad gives him the position Leia should
have occupied in the OT, the character with ties to both the military
and the Force who embodies what the war is about: The human face of the
Empire’s atrocities, the survivor who chose to fight. Leia should have
been the central figure of the war and not Han’s plus-one on what
were essentially his plots and missions.

Done right Leia would have been
more like Katniss in The Hunger Games, damaged and traumatized from her
experiences, inspiring by her story and example. RO tried to shoehorn
Jynn into Katniss’s Mockingjay role except it never worked because Jynn
didn’t have the representative story. Obviously the Mockingjay figures
were Cassian and the Jedhans (Bodhi, Chirrut, Baze), but yet again SW
shied away from giving center stage to victims of wide-scale atrocities.
It shied away again with Finn in TLJ.

This refusal to have central Mockingjay figures, I believe, reflects SW’s basic ambivalence as a franchise that is more comfortable with destined saviors than with exploited and destroyed peoples saving themselves. Maybe that comes of SW being a USAmerican franchise dealing with fascism, the contradiction of a country that is fundamentally fascistic and imperialistic trying to tell itself a story of being antifascist and anti-imperialist. America can’t face the full implication of truly upending its fascist underpinnings, in fiction as in reality. Instead the brutal form of fascism is replaced by the “soft” fascism of worshipping benign supermen.

Then along comes JJ Abrams, someone in a position to know the contradictions and falsity in the story America tells about itself. He shows the New Republic’s compromise with fascism destroying it morally as well as physically, a year ahead of the 2016 election. He shows how the worship of the Skywalkers as the chosen line gave us Kylo Ren. He gives us Finn, one of the First Order’s victims, as a strong and central figure.

Finn in IX could be the character that Leia could have been–the one who ties it all together, the military plot and the Force plot, the story of war with the story of spirituality and morality. He could be the character that embodies both the evil of the First Order and the determination, on a personal, visceral level, to fight it. He could be the character that brings audiences face to face with what it means when people who are considered expendable in the quest for greatness stand up and fight back. He could solve the Star Wars dilemma and finally break the vicious cycle of destruction the galaxy far, far away has become trapped in. I certainly hope so.

(Spun off from a discussion with @fuckyeahrebelfinn [link])

#and this is exactly why I believed Finn and Rey’s seperation in TLJ could’ve been brilliant#bc Leia should’ve been the character to introduce Finn to this role in the ST#but then RJ…. whatever the fuck#now that one movie was wasted I’m afraid we can’t get into the politics of this the way we should have

That speculation was not baseless at all, given that John was saying in July 2017 that Finn would be in “another form of training” alongside Leia (link). This is so wildly out of line with what we saw in TLJ that I have to wonder if John was led to believe TLJ was going to be a different movie altogether. Or maybe it’s the way his answer was edited and the “alongside General Leia” comment wasn’t meant to go together with the training comment at all. It’s still really weird and yeah, either way a big opportunity was lost to have Finn interact with and learn from Leia.

I don’t get why people think Finn both being a military leader and having the Force is somehow strange for Star Wars. After all, we have a rather outsized example of this already.

It’s not just the combination of Force and military abilities either, but also the characters’ story positions. Finn being the “war” part of the triad gives him the position Leia should
have occupied in the OT, the character with ties to both the military
and the Force who embodies what the war is about: The human face of the
Empire’s atrocities, the survivor who chose to fight. Leia should have
been the central figure of the war and not Han’s plus-one on what
were essentially his plots and missions.

Done right Leia would have been
more like Katniss in The Hunger Games, damaged and traumatized from her
experiences, inspiring by her story and example. RO tried to shoehorn
Jynn into Katniss’s Mockingjay role except it never worked because Jynn
didn’t have the representative story. Obviously the Mockingjay figures
were Cassian and the Jedhans (Bodhi, Chirrut, Baze), but yet again SW
shied away from giving center stage to victims of wide-scale atrocities.
It shied away again with Finn in TLJ.

This refusal to have central Mockingjay figures, I believe, reflects SW’s basic ambivalence as a franchise that is more comfortable with destined saviors than with exploited and destroyed peoples saving themselves. Maybe that comes of SW being a USAmerican franchise dealing with fascism, the contradiction of a country that is fundamentally fascistic and imperialistic trying to tell itself a story of being antifascist and anti-imperialist. America can’t face the full implication of truly upending its fascist underpinnings, in fiction as in reality. Instead the brutal form of fascism is replaced by the “soft” fascism of worshipping benign supermen.

Then along comes JJ Abrams, someone in a position to know the contradictions and falsity in the story America tells about itself. He shows the New Republic’s compromise with fascism destroying it morally as well as physically, a year ahead of the 2016 election. He shows how the worship of the Skywalkers as the chosen line gave us Kylo Ren. He gives us Finn, one of the First Order’s victims, as a strong and central figure.

Finn in IX could be the character that Leia could have been–the one who ties it all together, the military plot and the Force plot, the story of war with the story of spirituality and morality. He could be the character that embodies both the evil of the First Order and the determination, on a personal, visceral level, to fight it. He could be the character that brings audiences face to face with what it means when people who are considered expendable in the quest for greatness stand up and fight back. He could solve the Star Wars dilemma and finally break the vicious cycle of destruction the galaxy far, far away has become trapped in. I certainly hope so.

(Spun off from a discussion with @fuckyeahrebelfinn [link])

What impact do you think China, the biggest movie market, has on the new SW films? They have a whole bunch of rules that are completely justified, but then they have listed, “No Homo, no Ghosts, no supernatural.”, and then there’s also John Boyega being little on the TFA poster. Since people in China HATED 8, to the point that they had to market Solo in China very carefully, do you think Disney will be like “9’s probably not going to do well there anyways, so let’s throw in some LGBT rep”?

jewishcomeradebot:

lj-writes:

More like throw in Force Ghost Luke. Much as I’d like LFL/Disney to think in terms of LGBT rep I’m pretty sure that’s not happening.

Okay, I confess I’m a bit confused here. The “no homo” part I get, but “no ghosts and no supernatural” I don’t. Can someone enlighten me? Google isn’t really being helpful or I’m looking for the wrong thing entirely.

I think no ghosts and no supernatural falls under “propagating cults and superstition” (link). Black Panther had a blatant spirit world and conversations with spirits, though, and it was not only allowed in China but did quite well so #NotAllGhosts it seems. I suspect the rule has more to do with suppressing domestic religious fervor that might be a threat, e.g. Falun Gong. Also ancestral spirits like the ones in BP, particularly paternal, may be looked upon more kindly in a Confucian worldview. Hey, so if Luke is someone’s dad he can show up as a ghost? Good news for ReySkys and FinnSkys!

jewishcomeradebot:

What if Rose and Poe gets together in IX?

They have an already established relationship that goes back quite a bit before TLJ and Poe obviously likes Rose a lot. And Rose like Poe in return.

Not to mention that Poe’s, “How did did you two meet?”, followed by, “Good luck?”, when Rose answers, “Just luck”, can easily read as jealousy of Finn. 

He has been developing romantic feelings for Rose but haven’t found the place and time to talk to her about it and now suddenly here’s Finn, the gorgeous, dashing young man who Rose obviously likes a lot and he feels defeated. Not that he think Rose owes him anything, he just wishes that Rose would look at him the way she looks at Finn. 

And Rose clearly trust Poe above all else. Having outgrown her unhealthy hero worship of Finn and realized that she’s all the hero she’s ever going to need would make for an excellent basis for a romance between her and Poe.

Evidently there’s a passage in Star Wars Adventures where Rose saves Poe’s life by opening the Raddus’s hangar door where no one else knew how to. She’d just been… like… reading the manual like the giant dork she is. I can imagine her really standing out to him from that moment on.