kyberfox:

@dasakuryo brought up how this nighttime phenomenon on Uyumi, the real life place where some of the Crait scenes were shot, would make for a good closing scene centered on Finn and Rey.

That picture brought to mind a leak that surfaced months ago where a person mentioned having caught a brief glance of the final scene in The Last Jedi.

According to this leak the scene would be visually similar to the last scene of Empire Strike Back, though it clearly did not take place on a ship.

Now look at the final scene in ESB.

According to the leak, the would be two characters in the shot. Finn and Luke.

I was not until today aware of the fact that Crait was filmed at Uyuni, nor of that stunning visual effect there is at night. But having seen the first picture I could definitely see how it would at a quick glance bring to mind the closing scene in ESB.

A final interesting tidbit is that John has said that we will learn about Finn’s family in TLJ, but that it will not be dealt with in depth. Are we going to see a very late family reveal in TLJ between Luke and Finn I wonder?

kyberfox:

Now that we know that Finn will face off against Phasma in what looks like the hangar of Snoke’s capital ship the Supremacy, I found something interesting in the teaser trailer.

Here’s Finn igniting his baton:

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Here they are fighting:

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And here’s a shot of Phasma walking out of the darkness leading a group of Stormtroopers from the teaser trailer:

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In the teaser this part is cut together with a shot of the burning building Luke is kneeling in front of, making it look like this scene and that is connected but on closer inspection it looks all wrong.

Look at the curved bit with the metallic reflection in the upper left corner and the debris on the ground, it looks nothing like Luke’s burning building. But it looks a lot like the hangar in the fight scene.

So Phasma doesn’t arrive alone to take on Finn and what’s more the hangar is already burning when she and her troopers do. Someone has already destroyed it.

What’s more, these Stormtroopers with Phasma cannot be the only ones there.

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This Stormtrooper behind Finn is interesting because he’s shooting a TIE fighter. 

So the two possibilities seems to be that:
A) He’s one of Phasma’s loyal Stormtroopers and someone has taken over the TIE and are helping Finn bust up the hangar. In which case we must be looking at a major infiltration by the Resistance, but do they even have the personnel to commit to such an action? In TFA they looked very understaffed and not at all equipped for such large scale infiltration. Not to mention that this mission seems to consist of Finn, Rose Tico and the mysterious DJ.

B) He’s a Stomrmtrooper that, like Finn, has turned against the First Order.

Now this is much more in thread with what we already has hints off about Finn’s storyline. And it makes sense of his lines from one of the other TV spots:

“I was raised to fight. For the first time, I had something to fight for.”

Lines that clearly comes late in the movie given how he’s dressed.

What he has found to fight for is freedom. Not just his own, but the freedom of all those infants that the First Order stole and indoctrinated. For all the children that the world forgot and who grew up into people that the galaxy tries to forget about as well, at least that they are people.

Would that mean Finn’s infiltration mission had results by the time Phasma arrived at the hangar–that the uprising was so organized that troopers pretended to be loyal to her until the moment they turned?

Alternately, the troopers who were still loyal to the Order may have been killed/neutralized after arriving with Phasma. That would be in keeping with the theme of moral ambiguity if we have Troopers killing each other.

Further, if we assume the hangar burns after this gathering from the trailer:

Where are these Stormtroopers in the subsequent fight? Wiped out in the blast that caused the fire? Turned against the FO en masse? Fighting each other? My guess is a combination of the first and third, since neither Finn nor Phasma has troops by their side while there are troopers in the background, so the assumption is that both their sides are too busy fighting to come to their leaders’ aid.

superhashslingingslasherz:

The Last Jedi end all be all Finn prediction

So, I don’t post ever but I needed to get this one out there.

Basis for prediction: In TFA i think I remember Snoke saying “there has been an awakening” right? Most would assume he’s talking about Rey as she ended up being the focal point for the force in the movie. But that really doesn’t make sense because she hadn’t shown any signs of any kind of awakening at that point. He was talking about Finn and his change at the village massacre. I think this is intentional and instrumental for this prediction.

Now in TLJ trailer once again we here Snoke speak of a force user. A “raw untamed power” as it gives us shots of Rey and Kylo and I feel as if that’s a misdirection and he’s really talking about Finn.

Reason 1: so we all know Finn goes “undercover” in the FO except, that doesn’t make any sense either because he should be on the FO’s most wanted list. I don’t think he’s undercover, I think they want him there specifically because of what he is and what he did.

Reason 2: the seriously suspicious lack of Finn merchandising and promo just doesn’t fit for a character so integral to the plot. Rian Johnson seems to imply there’s a lot more than meets the eye and I’m inclined to believe him. They focus on everything but Finn to not draw attention to him and his story. Hate it or love it they love their plot twists

Reason 3: we know he’s force sensitive (kinda). The problem is that it’s only implied atm. Now how to introduce said sensitivity without it feeling… forced(buh dum tsss) you make the audience realise that he was force sensitive the entire time. Rather than having yet another clutch dramatic reveal in the heat of battle. You foreshadow said sensitivity in TFA. Coming full circle to my Basis for prediction. Simple. Thanks for reading. Whaddya think?

Interesting! Here’s to hoping. I mean, I found the whole idea of Finn undercover to really stretch my suspension of disbelief, too. So maybe DJ makes him a fake ID in the system, whatever. Is DJ so good that he can rewrite human memory? When Finn is going into the wolves’ den with his face uncovered? As a Stormtrooper trainee he ate in mess hall with his face uncovered. He lived communally with other trainees. Any passing Stormtrooper could recognize him. And that’s to say nothing of Phasma and Hux, who quite recently reviewed his personnel files and presumably are not both face-blind, and Kylo Ren, who also saw Finn’s face at the very least during the fight on Starkiller Base.

Like… argh, are you fucking kidding me. How does that even work? Even if the movie turns out to be good, it would be the biggest joke ever if this undercover mission works the way it’s shown, with Finn waltzing into Snoke’s own flagship and going unrecognized for a decent amount of time. At the very least this is a terrible use of human resources, because by normal logic he should have debriefed and trained other undercover agents and let them take over. So there had better be something more going on, because otherwise the First Order are going to look about as menacing as a classroom in daycare.

Which is a long way of saying, I like your theory lol. And if the absence of Finn in the promo and merch is due to legitimate plot reasons I may even consider forgiving LucasFilm sometime in the next decade.

kyberfox:

lj-writes:

kyberfox:

I’m over the moon that Finn got that iconic line – “may the Force be with you” – but no one seems to be asking the obvious question, where did he learn it?

It’s not something the First Order would have taught him that’s for sure. 

Originally it was a Jedi greeting that the then Alliance adopted as several ranking members had had close ties with the Jedi before the rise of the Empire. The First Order want the Jedi wiped out and sees the Republic, the government formed by the Alliance after Endor, as an illegitimate power to also be destroyed. 

While I could see it spreading via the Church of the Force who’s teachings are based on those of the Jedi, it doesn’t seem to have spread into the general populace in the 30 years since the Battle of Endor, as far as we can judge by the canon material available.

It doesn’t even seemed to be used by the Resistance personnel in general.

So again, where did he pick it up?

My theory is that Rose said it to Finn, and Finn is repeating it back to her in a jocular, slightly disbelieving way. We have never seen this phrase used jokingly before, because when it was said it was always used in earnest at a pivotal moment in the films. The fact that Finn is saying it in a laughing manner not only fits his status as a rebellious, authority-critical hero, but shows he may be unfamiliar with it or at least its full context.

A major reason I think this is part of a scene with Rose is because of the background. Here’s a still of Finn saying the line…

And here’s an early shot of Finn and Rose talking.

They feature the same door, as far as I can tell, from different angles. (The difference in lighting is probably due to poor rendering of the TV spot, since the daytime scene with Rey also comes out dark in the video uploaded to YouTube.)

If Rose said this line and Finn repeated it to her in a cynical way, it would be in line with their relationship as described to us in various articles and interviews–that he wants no part in the fight at first (and I don’t blame him one bit) and she helps him believe in it and himself.

It would also be a setup for Finn saying the line in earnest later on as part of his character development, having found his own conviction and his own meaning in his journey. It will go down as a moment in Star Wars history much like Han coming back to assist Luke at the Death Star or Jyn’s rendition of this iconic line.

Funny you bring up that Finn seems to be disbelieving even ironic here. I read it the same way and it made me wonder if it was Rose or Poe he’s saying it to, as popular thought appears to be or if its an authority figure.

To me he reads like he wants to tell someone to piss off but can’t, in that his voice is very polite, almost formal, but his little smirk and tilt of the head kinda reads like “oh go eff yourself”. Because that’s not Finn’s smile when he means it, it looks utterly fake.

Of course, without context its hard to know. But yes it makes me think he’s saying it to someone in authority where he can’t say exactly what he means, so he resorts to this.

In Resistance context that would mean Leia or Amilyn Holdo, my money is on the latter.

If true, this just may mark the first time MTFBWU was used as a “fuck u” 😂

Alternate theory: Finn learned the phrase from archival materials he studied as part of his training, like Rebellion radio chatter intercepted by the Empire or something. It’s a fond headcanon of mine that he got the “war hero” bit from studying the old battles and coming to his own, wholly unapproved, conclusions.

kyberfox:

I’m over the moon that Finn got that iconic line – “may the Force be with you” – but no one seems to be asking the obvious question, where did he learn it?

It’s not something the First Order would have taught him that’s for sure. 

Originally it was a Jedi greeting that the then Alliance adopted as several ranking members had had close ties with the Jedi before the rise of the Empire. The First Order want the Jedi wiped out and sees the Republic, the government formed by the Alliance after Endor, as an illegitimate power to also be destroyed. 

While I could see it spreading via the Church of the Force who’s teachings are based on those of the Jedi, it doesn’t seem to have spread into the general populace in the 30 years since the Battle of Endor, as far as we can judge by the canon material available.

It doesn’t even seemed to be used by the Resistance personnel in general.

So again, where did he pick it up?

My theory is that Rose said it to Finn, and Finn is repeating it back to her in a jocular, slightly disbelieving way. We have never seen this phrase used jokingly before, because when it was said it was always used in earnest at a pivotal moment in the films. The fact that Finn is saying it in a laughing manner not only fits his status as a rebellious, authority-critical hero, but shows he may be unfamiliar with it or at least its full context.

A major reason I think this is part of a scene with Rose is because of the background. Here’s a still of Finn saying the line…

And here’s an early shot of Finn and Rose talking.

They feature the same door, as far as I can tell, from different angles. (The difference in lighting is probably due to poor rendering of the TV spot, since the daytime scene with Rey also comes out dark in the video uploaded to YouTube.)

If Rose said this line and Finn repeated it to her in a cynical way, it would be in line with their relationship as described to us in various articles and interviews–that he wants no part in the fight at first (and I don’t blame him one bit) and she helps him believe in it and himself.

It would also be a setup for Finn saying the line in earnest later on as part of his character development, having found his own conviction and his own meaning in his journey. It will go down as a moment in Star Wars history much like Han coming back to assist Luke at the Death Star or Jyn’s rendition of this iconic line.

absolxguardian:

lj-writes:

Is the “princess” actually Rose?

So I know this might sound wild, but hear me out! I kept thinking about Adam Driver’s recent comments to GQ about a princess hiding who she is in order to survive. The exact quote is:

“You have, also, the hidden identity of this princess who’s hiding who she really is so she can survive and Kylo Ren and her hiding behind these artifices.”

The immediate conclusion people drew was that he was talking about Rey’s origins, and I would be as happy as anyone if this means she is Leia’s or Luke’s daughter.

However, that seems to me a little too easy? And a violation of his NDA if this was an unauthorized comment? Make no mistake, the current promotional blitz is a carefully orchestrated event. The GQ interview and the other media appearances aren’t hard-hitting journalistic pieces on a search for the truth of a galaxy far, far away. They’re meant to sell the movie to us in a way LucasFilm has planned and approved. Unless Driver is currently being sued for all he’s worth I don’t buy that he let a spoiler slip.

It also doesn’t quite fit. Rey isn’t hiding who she is, her identity was hidden from her. There’s also no indication that not knowing her own identity helps her survive or hide.

There was also speculation that the line referred to Leia, but this also doesn’t fit because everyone knows who Leia is–a princess of Alderaan by adoption and the daughter of Anakin Skywalker and Padmé Amidala by birth. The revelation that her birth father was the hated Darth Vader derailed her political career years before TFA started.

What if the princess is Rose Tico? Here’s what we know about her: she works in maintenance, she is a “nobody,” her home was destroyed by the First Order and, according to the book Star Wars Made Easy, “she has a tragic past that she prefers to keep hidden.”

This last part has prompted speculations that Rose is a former student of Luke’s and survived the massacre of the Jedi school. But what about the part where her home was destroyed by the First Order? I guess one could say the Jedi Temple was her home, but we know that she has a sister, Paige, so she has or had an origin family. Wouldn’t it be more natural to say this family’s home was her home? Did the First Order destroy her school AND her family’s home? I mean that seems a bit much to me.

What if we assume instead that the destruction of her home and the tragic past are connected–her home was destroyed, and this is part of her tragic past? Running with the princess theory, she was royalty on her home planet but it was destroyed by the First Order, and she had to go into hiding as a result.

We know from the Princess Leia comic that the Empire targeted the surviving Alderaanians after destroying their home planet. The First Order is certainly not above such tactics, especially when any surviving members of the former leadership may be a threat to their rule.

Rose as a lost princess, in other words, fits the description of a princess hiding her identity to survive and also matches our scant prior knowledge of her. Even Kelly Marie Tran flatly stating that she’s not royalty could be read as a deflection that is not quite a lie–it was said in the present tense, and from a certain point of view (cough) royalty with no power and nothing to rule is not, in fact, currently royalty beyond a title.

Now think about the courage it took for a Princess Rose, marked for death by the same organization that destroyed her home planet, to run not away from danger but into it by joining the Resistance like a certain other Princess we know of. Think of how her story would affect Finn, whose internal conflict in TLJ is whether to stay and fight or to run.

To get even farther with the speculation, what if Rose’s destroyed home and the home Finn was taken from are the same? What if they are bound by the ties of a common origin, even the ties of family?

I would die of joy if we have Princess Rose and her knight Sir Finn, or Princess Rose and Prince Finn as brother and sister. Even if it’s not canon it’s a really fun piece of speculation.

And if you’re outright dismissing this theory as crack, why is that? If you’re willing to believe a scavenger can be a princess, why not a mechanic?

I love this. And without introducing new royalty, members of the Elder Houses are still alive. And I’m pretty sure the timeline can shake out to have Rose’s aunt be Lady Carise. And we don’t know what happened to Arkanis.

And if you remember the possible sorta spoiler on that Dolw quiz that listed Finn’s birth planet as a legends planet with royalty(one of whom was named finn), she could also be from there.

porgsitter:

There’s the theory that Snoke owns a device that can rob people of their Force sensitivity. If this is true we all know who should be robbed of his Force sensitivity by the end of IX and then be sentenced to a life in prison and a trial where he has to face everything he has done…

Ben in eternal timeout, whining and pounding sand for the rest of his days.

rinsantago:

lj-writes:

Is the “princess” actually Rose?

So I know this might sound wild, but hear me out! I kept thinking about Adam Driver’s recent comments to GQ about a princess hiding who she is in order to survive. The exact quote is:

“You have, also, the hidden identity of this princess who’s hiding who she really is so she can survive and Kylo Ren and her hiding behind these artifices.”

The immediate conclusion people drew was that he was talking about Rey’s origins, and I would be as happy as anyone if this means she is Leia’s or Luke’s daughter.

However, that seems to me a little too easy? And a violation of his NDA if this was an unauthorized comment? Make no mistake, the current promotional blitz is a carefully orchestrated event. The GQ interview and the other media appearances aren’t hard-hitting journalistic pieces on a search for the truth of a galaxy far, far away. They’re meant to sell the movie to us in a way LucasFilm has planned and approved. Unless Driver is currently being sued for all he’s worth I don’t buy that he let a spoiler slip.

It also doesn’t quite fit. Rey isn’t hiding who she is, her identity was hidden from her. There’s also no indication that not knowing her own identity helps her survive or hide.

There was also speculation that the line referred to Leia, but this also doesn’t fit because everyone knows who Leia is–a princess of Alderaan by adoption and the daughter of Anakin Skywalker and Padmé Amidala by birth. The revelation that her birth father was the hated Darth Vader derailed her political career years before TFA started.

What if the princess is Rose Tico? Here’s what we know about her: she works in maintenance, she is a “nobody,” her home was destroyed by the First Order and, according to the book Star Wars Made Easy, “she has a tragic past that she prefers to keep hidden.”

This last part has prompted speculations that Rose is a former student of Luke’s and survived the massacre of the Jedi school. But what about the part where her home was destroyed by the First Order? I guess one could say the Jedi Temple was her home, but we know that she has a sister, Paige, so she has or had an origin family. Wouldn’t it be more natural to say this family’s home was her home? Did the First Order destroy her school AND her family’s home? I mean that seems a bit much to me.

What if we assume instead that the destruction of her home and the tragic past are connected–her home was destroyed, and this is part of her tragic past? Running with the princess theory, she was royalty on her home planet but it was destroyed by the First Order, and she had to go into hiding as a result.

We know from the Princess Leia comic that the Empire targeted the surviving Alderaanians after destroying their home planet. The First Order is certainly not above such tactics, especially when any surviving members of the former leadership may be a threat to their rule.

Rose as a lost princess, in other words, fits the description of a princess hiding her identity to survive and also matches our scant prior knowledge of her. Even Kelly Marie Tran flatly stating that she’s not royalty could be read as a deflection that is not quite a lie–it was said in the present tense, and from a certain point of view (cough) royalty with no power and nothing to rule is not, in fact, currently royalty beyond a title.

Now think about the courage it took for a Princess Rose, marked for death by the same organization that destroyed her home planet, to run not away from danger but into it by joining the Resistance like a certain other Princess we know of. Think of how her story would affect Finn, whose internal conflict in TLJ is whether to stay and fight or to run.

To get even farther with the speculation, what if Rose’s destroyed home and the home Finn was taken from are the same? What if they are bound by the ties of a common origin, even the ties of family?

I would die of joy if we have Princess Rose and her knight Sir Finn, or Princess Rose and Prince Finn as brother and sister. Even if it’s not canon it’s a really fun piece of speculation.

And if you’re outright dismissing this theory as crack, why is that? If you’re willing to believe a scavenger can be a princess, why not a mechanic?

YES PLEASE!
Isn’t it already known that there’s some kind of massive secret/revelation in her identity?

Yup! I mean I was a bit off with where Adam’s comment was pointing in the interview (it was… Kylo Ren? sort of) but there’s also @kyberfox ’s necklace meta which hints at something potentially big. I can’t wait for the reveal!

Rose’s necklace, a hint of her origin story?

kyberfox:

@lj-writes and I got to talking the other day about Rose’s necklace and how it might tie into her past and her story in The Last Jedi.

Early on in our discussion the talk fell on Jedha, in part because Rogue One established it as a form of Space Asia and it would not be beyond Star Wars’ usual MO to have another Asian character – or rather two since we must include Paige in this too – and because of what we have of Rose’s background so far makes her seem like a refugee surviving at the fringes of the galaxy. And by extension her sister, Paige, too.

Considering that refugees are often discriminated against – in fact we see no justice for Jedha in extended canon at all – and the fact that the First Order, like the Empire before it, are persecuting and deliberately targeting religious minorities, any Jedhan living in diaspora would be a prime target.

A quick trip to Google by us both revealed several more interesting facts.

First, Kelly Marie is 28 so unless they age up Rose considerably she obviously didn’t survive the destruction of Jedha itself, but Veronica Ngo who plays Paige is 38! Apart from everything else, that’s some age gap between the sisters.

Of course, if Paige along with her family were direct survivors of Jedha, it would take years before they’d feel safe enough to start rebuilding and certainly not while the Galactic Civil War was still on. But if we use Kelly Marie’s own age as a measuring stick, Rose would have been born a few years after RotJ, a time where the galaxy might have felt safer and the Jedhan diaspora would have had hope for the future.

That was, of course, before tragedy struck again, and the First Order destroyed their second home just as the Empire had their world of origin.

While LJ and I were discussing this, we had a simultaneous discussion about “Why a crescent? Why would that specific symbol mean something to Rose?”

Early discussion brought up the Death Star itself, which looked like a crescent from the surface of Jedha when it was doing its destructive work.

(All the following pictures here are dug out or made by LJ. Thank you for doing that legwork)

Here’s the Death Star forming a crescent shape over Jedha as it blocked out the sun:

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And here it is seen from the ground as it was firing the beam.  

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But that is a rather morbid imagery, why would Rose want to carry it? And why the lattice work on its surface?

Here LJ’s Google search brought up an interesting fact about Jedha.

There was a group on the moon that was called the Church of the Contained Crescent. They, at some point in the past, inhabited the catacombs that Saw Gererra uses as a HQ in the movie and when they did, they installed a lattice window.

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This image from Rebels does not appear to be the latticed window itself, since it seems to be in a tunnel, but it forms an interesting visual parallel with Saw standing before the window at his base.

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In the trailer (Bald Saw) the lattice window was intact, while in the movie it had been shattered, but you can still clearly see the remnants of the lattice work.

(A tragic bit that LJ also dug up, Saw died at that window.)

What’s more, the window must have taken some effort to put in because it is actually a short tunnel through a rock wall, which creates the visual effect that when you look at it from almost any angle – except head on – you see a crescent shape.  

A crescent covered in lattice work.

This picture gives a particular good view of the remaining lattice work

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Now compare with Rose’s necklace.

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When you compare the edgings into Rose’s necklace, they look very suspiciously like what remains of the lattice in the window.

Now we know nothing about this group – The Church of the Contained Crescent – except that they existed, but LJ came up with the idea that they might have been a prophetic/end of days group who foresaw Jedha’s doom – perhaps marked by the crescent shape of the Death Star – and the reason they vacated the catacombs was to make room for Saw’s group. Or perhaps they were trying to prevent their own vision from coming true by vacating.

This remains unanswered as we know nothing about them except the name and the fact they installed that window.

One could object to this theory by pointing out the lack of “Jedhan sounding names” – though given that that is a fictional place then what would that indeed be – but then it wouldn’t be the first time someone was hidden under another name than their birth name for the sake of protection.

Padme Amidala hid in her time as queen of Naboo often under the alias Padme the Handmaiden to protect herself from enemies. Leia was raised under the name Organa, rather than under Skywalker or Amidala or Naberrie to shield her. Even Jyn Erso had numerous aliases in her life because her own name would make her an Imperial target. So why shouldn’t the Tico sisters live under a name not their own if their original names mark them in the eyes of the First Order and those who support them. And possibly even in the eyes of members of the Republic who wish to forget the past entirely.

Of course, if this is true it leads to some very interesting questions and thoughts.

For one thing, Rose possibly being a member of a “Force church” begs the question how she ties into the Force plot, further made relevant by the fact that Kelly Marie had chemistry readings with Mark Hamill indicating that they’ll share some crucial scenes together.

It would also mean an expansion of both Jedha’s role in canon – and maybe that, for once, LucasArts would deal in any kind of depth with one of its multiple instances of genocide – but also an expansion of the many other Force ideologies beyond Jedi that the new canon has introduced. We got the first – the Church of the Force – in TFA when the First Order massacred a village of worshipers on Jakku. We heard of the Guardians of the Whills in Rogue One where two of the last members played a prominent part.

Furthermore, it would deeply affect the interactions between her and Finn. Not only is Rose more likely to be a few years older than Finn, just like Kelly Marie is a few years older than John. They may even have aged the character up compared to the actor, making the age gap even bigger than most people expect.  

The ages and personalities would affect her hero worship dynamic with Finn as well. She isn’t a star struck young girl, but a grown woman, “a very practical person” according to actor Kelly Marie Tran’s recent interview with Entertainment Weekly with a very tragic, hardscrabble past. She might see in Finn as much of justice as her people are ever likely to see in the galaxy. After all, the actions of Bodhi, Chirrut and Baze seem to have been as much justice as Jedha ever got, whether under the Empire or the New Republic.  

Jedha has always looked to its heroes because many were willing to exploit their resources and culture but few were willing to fight for them. Rose may see in Finn such a hero, and in the process will become another such hero. Whether she will be a Jedhan hero is a matter of speculation and theory at this point, but the crescent necklace hints tantalizingly at that possibility.

Awesome, you posted this! Thanks for putting the ideas and information together. I would love it so much if the story of Jedha were extended in the main movies and the spiritual paths surrounding the Force got more examination. And if Rose were to be a Jedhan hero for a new generation in the footsteps of Bodhi, Chirrut, and Baze… *high-pitched inaudible squeal*