okay alright listen If Rey is not Han and Leia’s daughter I’m gonna need answers to the following questions:
What in the world was Claudia Gray talking about when she said that she came up with a “visual element” of Bloodline and it happened to match something that is being planned for future movies, if not the music box that plays Mirrorbright?
What is Jett Lucas trying to say by comparing TFA to Anastasia with focus on her royal status? If it’s something that his father included in his drafts and was changed by Disney, why does he keep mentioning it?
What’s up with Leia’s ring and why is it identical to the one described by Jen Heddle in her fan fiction (Jen is a book editor at Lucasfilm)? Is it just a coincidence? If it’s indeed a nod to Jen, why are there two stones instead of three?
What in fresh hell was Maryann Brandon talking about at around 48:36 here if not “the fact that Rey and Leia know each other was cut from the film because we don’t know who Rey is yet” and why the fuck was this particular answer removed from UCLA’s YouTube channel?
What is the personal turmoil that Han was going through when he lost the Falcon (before the Jedi massacre)? Did it involve his troubled son? WHY? Why was Ben going through so much trouble? Snoke? What did he use to manipulate or disturb Ben? Han didn’t even know about Snoke’s influence until TFA.
Why is Han described as a family man in the Visual Dictionary and his life style post-war as something “unexpected” for the guy he was in the original trilogy, and yet his old ways were supposedly a factor in his son’s downfall? What changed along the way?
Why does the online Star Wars databank repeatedly sugget that Han and Chewie lost the Falcon together, if according to the Visual Dictionary they are only supposed to be reunited after a “profound tragedy” and the most obvious interpretation for that is Ben becoming Kylo Ren (which happened post-Bloodline and therefore after the loss of the Falcon)? Is the online team at LFL that out of the loop?
How did the “profound tragedy” turn Han’s life upside down (”upended what had become normal”) if by the time Ben turned he was already spending significant amounts of time away from Leia, travelling throughout the galaxy?
Why did Leia have a dream in Life Debt of herself dying as she gave birth to children instead of dreaming of Padme in that situation, considering she didn’t picture herself as anyone else during the other parts of the dream (Luke was Luke, Han was Han, Chewie was Chewie)?
I can reasonably understand and accept alternative explanations for pretty much all the other arguments out there in support of this theory, but not these.
just wtf how the hell does someone ‘accidentally’ kill all their fellow students plus their school (and no, he never helped anyone in his life let only the people he freaking killed on purpose not accidentally)
For a truly horrifying second I thought that it was YOU saying that and I thought “dear god I’m watching it happen before my very eyes”
now that would be horrifying!!! (me? defending kylo ren? never going to happen!! and if i ever did then just slap me or send help bc something is obviously wrong with me)
I’d be like “Is she drunkk???” 😀
(But what if his lightsaber accidently slipped into Han!! )
I’ve seen this theory posed by sw/nonsense, which lives up to its name as always. The post then went on to speculate that Luke rejected Ben out of fear, pushing him into Snoke’s arms. Because nothing can ever be poor Ben’s fault ever and Luke must be the real bad guy here. 😂
I’m just? How upset do you have to be that you need to start that for the mere theory that that hand might belong to the Black male lead and not the white villain.
I love how their only piece of “evidence” is that bit from the SW website. Like the movie industry have never lied to audience before? Nope, never happened.
I must have hit a serious nerve there.
Even if that is Kylo that don’t mean he’s reaching out to Rey 🙃🙃🙃
Exactly!
Especially given that the Kylo scene and the Rey scene clearly comes from different short. So the whole thing is so clearly a misdirection, which they damn well know but can’t own up to because they’d have to accept that their ship is based on nothing but thin air.
The major question here is, a misdirection for what?
Finn is my fave candidate so far, since that would really rub some salt on the wounds 🙂 other than that I’m not sure who else he would reach out for, except maybe Luke? But that wouldn’t make much sense at this point
Finn’s my favorite too and Luke is the second option.
But I’ve come across one compelling theory. That it is Kylo who’s holding out his hand, but it’s not Rey he’s holding his hand out to like we’re meant to believe. It’s Finn.
Imagine this.
We have all this fire and burning stuff and it’s the kind of setting we see Finn fight Phasma in. What if Kylo comes and offers Finn a deal, to help him free the other Stormtroopers and get them out if Finn joins him. Maybe even offers to train him as a Force user?
The FO was only ever the means to an end for Kylo, that much is clear in TFA. He’d be quite willing to burn the whole thing down if that achieved his goal quicker. (Whatever that is.)
And if all those other Stormtrooper’s freedom depends on Finn’s choice – like they’re outnumbered and out gunned by the FO – if he thought he might be able to end the FO who abused him and so many others right then and there with Kylo’s help? What would he chose? Would he set aside his own hate for Kylo for a time to defeat the First Order? If Kylo offers him to take down Snoke with his help? To end it and the FO?
I could see Finn be tempted by that.
The whole thing would be a replay of Vader and Luke, but with Kylo and Finn. Heck Kylo’s words in the trailer?
“Let the past die. Kill it, if you have to. It’s the only way to become what you were meant to be.”
What if he says them to Finn? Really they make so much more sense in that context than if they’re said to Rey. And the thing is, what we see of Finn in the trailer, it’s clear that he wants to kill his past, and with good reason, but it could land him with a not-so-good “ally”.
On one hand this theory worries me, because I’m uncertain Rian can handle that kind of complexity in a Black character. On the other hand I want it desperately, it could be an awesome character arc for Finn. We’ve never really seen Finn tempted by the Dark Side and part of me wants that, wants him to face the idk what to call it “traditional character tests in Star Wars”?
But I’m scared shitless how Rian would handle it if it’s true
I read the idea earlier today and my brain has been veering back and forth between; awesome, eh idk, and hell no, ever since. I have still to make up my mind about it.
I FREAKING LOVE THAT IDEA on its own merits, that is, quite aside from Rian’s ability to handle it.
I just hope, if this is the case, Finn realizes that Kyle is still not only a mass murderer but a user who would use him and the troopers and then throw them away like he’s used and betrayed everyone he has ever associated with; Luke, his own parents, and now the First Order. I mean Kale’s line in the trailer is pretty much him admitting to this.
And then Finn remembers that Kal is also a failure and a flop who’s not even of use as a temporary ally of convenience and lops that fucking hand off 🙂
ok time to put the sw tin foil hats on gays!! after the trailer i truly believe finn starts a stormtrooper uprising in the fo based on 3 shots so here we go
so in the trailer we have 3 main shots of finn and phasma fighting! they look rad as fuck but after closer examination™ i noticed the stormtroopers in the background, but they weren’t rushing to join phasma’s side, even tho they can clearly see them fighting
what’s also puzzling is why they aren’t at least one of them aiming their guns at finn?
from that gif it’s obvious they’re fighting on a fo base/ship, with the at-st and tie fighters being destroyed from explosions all around them. but what are the troopers shooting at? there isn’t any resistance fighters visible in that shot so?? are they just stupid and shooting at the fire???
even w this gif there’s a trooper on an at-st walking away from their battle…
this makes me believe finn and rose infiltrate the fo and somehow reverse the reconditioning on a squadron of troopers.
earlier this year sw stated that there will be the first slicer (hacker) in this movie, which makes me believe rose is the hacker. if rose could hack the system the fo uses to recondition troopers, it would make sense why she would have such a new and prominent role in this movie.
at this point i’m grasping straws but i think if they were to reverse the conditioning on a squadron it would be the squadron finn was apart of.
it would be a powerful scene – a group of troopers being able to think and decided for themselves, and finn letting them have a choice of staying or fighting, like finn has in tfa (bc finn would never force them to fight).
so basically what i’m saying is that finn leaves a rogue squadron to fight their abuser, and while finn faces phasma rose and the other troopers place explosives and ward off other troopers to come help phasma. thank you for coming to my ted talk
Okay, but I need to add something re: reconditioning.
Now the comic doesn’t actually use the word reconditioning for this process, but it makes a lot of sense if it is.
And it literally turns the people who undergoes it into human droids – think Lobot like – that are programmable. Programs that we in a later Poe comic see can be over written and maybe even reverse or the implant used for the control removed.
Remember, Rose is a mechanic and – and here’s an interesting thing – she and Finn goes hunting for “DJ” who’s a slicer. Now he would be able to reverse those programs if anyone are. Or its a joint effort between the two, idk.
And yeah, some of the Stormtroopers who have undergone reconditioning might be like Terrex, but there’ll be quite a few “Finns” in there too. Liberating them, giving them a choice to fight back, that would be an epic arc and scene indeed.
I love this! While the Stormtroopers might not all be reconditioned, the ones who were are likely to be the ones who had the most independent ideas (whether moral or amoral, as exemplified by Finn and Terex) but were too valuable, that is skilled, to lose. And they would have some Grade A beef against the First Order if they didn’t before. They would make an excellent and motivated core fighting force for the uprising that the others could rally around.
Finn and the forgotten children
Here’s an aside to the theory that Finn will be the “spark that will light the fire that will burn the First Order down,” expanding on @nabyss’s question about where I see Finn’s story going. What if Finn, while posing as an officer, comes across the children abducted by the First Order? Maybe the star destroyer he and Rose have boarded wil be transporting some of these children, frightened and traumatized. He can’t be too kind to them for fear of breaking cover, but he does have flashbacks of his own childhood, especially the days after he was kidnapped. Maybe Rose will be reminded of her own tragic past referenced in the promo materials.
Then imagine, when the uprising becomes a reality, the First Order playing extremely dirty (surprise, surprise), using the children’s barracks as a shield to hinder and demoralize the rebellious Stormtroopers. Some of the rebel Stormtroopers might be like, forget the brats, let’s blast ‘em all to hell. That’s the way they were trained, after all, and I don’t think for a moment that the uprising will be made up entirely of morally upstanding individuals. Finn shoots down the idea immediately, reminding them that they’re just playing the First Order’s game by acting on their oppressors’ terms.
So Finn risks himself, maybe using himself as bait to liberate the children’s facilities. But it turns out the FO anticipated this possibility too, and rigged the barracks with bombs and/or poison, which again, Finn acts to neutralize at risk to himself and the troops rather than retreat and let the children die.
Imagine Finn walking into the children’s dorms, which are dark and almost silent other than the scared sniffles of the younger kids. Some of the kids might actually try to fight. After all, they were indoctrinated into thinking the First Order is good and that Finn and the trooper rebellion are traitors who will show them no mercy. A ten-year-old might attack with a training weapon, desperate to protect her brother in the same dorm with her own life if necessary. A twelve-year-old might shoot, maybe even take down a Trooper or land a shot on Finn himself.
And again, Finn refuses to let the children be harmed, despite hissed warnings from his men that these aren’t normal kids. He kneels to eye level of the children, telling him he was once a child like them, scared of what was going to happen to him and seeing no way other than listening to his abductors. But he’s here to get them out, and once everything is safe he WILL return them to their families.
Different children will have different levels of receptiveness to this plea. Deprogramming is a long and complicated process, after all. The younger and more recently kidnapped ones may be more accepting, and maybe some of the children he met on the star destroyer will tell the others that this guy is okay.
So Finn walks out of the dorms carrying a child and with a swarm of them surrounding him, and this is the image that will appear in the news holos and go down in historical record.
And after the uprising is successful Finn is as good as his word, organizing a task force to locate the children’s families and reunite them. It’s not just the children either, but the adult Stormtroopers if they wish. Finn leaves it to them, giving them their information packets and letting them know the choice is theirs, if they want to fight through the years and the shame to see their families again.
For too many, of course, the news is not good. Finn cries with the children and the troopers whose homes and family are gone. He adopts or finds parents for children who have nowhere else to go.
Through all this he keeps his own information packet on his desk and touches it every once in a while like it is a talisman for strength. He was flooded with messages from people claiming him as their own, some of them charlatans looking to cash in on his fame, others sincere bereaved parents and relatives who saw their child in him and wanted to believe, needed to believe that child had survived and grown up a hero. None of them was real, however, and he has the information from the First Order’s databanks that tell him the truth.
When the last case file is resolved he tidies his desk, picks up his information packet, and goes on a long vacation. It is time for him to go home.
I’m super fucking stoked by Finn’s appearances in the trailer. Maybe it’s my theory goggles that Finn is going to start a Stormtrooper uprising, but it seems to me Poe’s line that “We have a spark that will light the fire that will burn the First Order down” is a direct reference to Finn and the possible Stormtrooper rebellion. What’s more, Finn shows up directly after that line, surrounded by, hmmmm, FIRE as he duels Phasma.
Poe seems to be speaking with repressed anger or sorrow (my God Oscar
Isaac’s delivery help me Obi Juan whoever the fuck you are), indicating
that this was spoken in a moment of conflict whether within himself or
someone else.
Could Poe’s clashes with Leia have to do with how to respond to the possible uprising? Did Finn convince Poe into letting himself and Rose to go on a rogue mission and into possible death, a choice Poe is himself conflicted about? Is that why Leia slaps him, when she finds out what he’s done?
Finn, by the way, is not carrying a lightsaber but some kind of energy pike weapon that seems to work similarly to the baton FN-2199 used against him in the battle on Takodana. It not only looks freaking badass, it has a great reach, versatility and can stand up to lightsabers, too.
Also the all-black ensemble with a glowy energy weapon…. is anyone going to comment on the similarities with Luke in ROTJ? As I said in my reply to @diversehighfantasy, I see parallels with Luke in my TLJ speculation for Finn, too, particularly my wildly speculative ending.
Furthermore, when Snoke starts saying “Fulfill your destiny” the first shot is directly on Finn, although I think the line itself is said to Rey or Kylo. Is this a sideways reference to Finn’s liberating Stormtroopers being his destiny?
This is an interesting. What do you think might be Finn’s story?
See the linked speculation post! As for afterward, I imagine Finn will break the reconditioning (if he voluntarily offers himself to the FO as I speculate) and lead the Stormtrooper uprising, rescue the children who were kidnapped, find his own family in the FO databanks and reunite with them.
If so, it may be that the other TLJ plots involving Finn and Rose, the mission to the casino planet and infiltrating a First Order star destroyer, are lead-ups to that event. Do Finn and Rose go on a mission to get in touch with the leaders of this uprising? Does this meeting lead further to the two of them posing as First Order officers in order to get the mutiny started?
Information about this possible uprising could be what convinces Finn not to leave the fight. The trauma from Slip’s death was part of his motivation for leaving the First Order, and he can’t leave thousands more like Slip to be destroyed when they are desperate for a leader–for him, the symbol of the humanity and defiance behind the helmet.
Tying this in with earlier information and speculation about the remnants of the New Republic fleet and the original Resistance being in a power struggle, maybe the Republic faction is willing to leave the mutinous Stormtroopers high and dry. It’s too risky, Vice Admiral Holdo may decide, and it could be a trap. She may pay lip service to Finn’s bravery, but now that tens of thousands of others like him are willing to do the same thing she’s willing to let them die, showing just how much she really cares.
This would anger Finn and leave him with an even greater sense of obligation, and when Leia offers him a risky mission to get him in contact with the leaders of the uprising he snaps it up. If we go with the theory that Rose is a Republic soldier herself, she might volunteer and be chosen as a way for the Republic fleet to claim some stake in the mission. Maybe no one expects her to do much but she would prove them very wrong.
The First Order would obviously be looking for Finn, too, and the Stormtrooper secret police would probably be doing double duty tracking down internal signs of disloyalty and also the heart of the brewing revolt–because make no mistake, Finn is the soul and heart of the uprising no matter where he may be. The Order would love to see him dead, or better yet, captured, reconditioned, and turned into a mouthpiece.
Captain Phasma would love to see Finn a corpse or a husk, too, though unlike the Order she prefers the first option. Finn not only threatened and humiliated her, he knows that she was the one who dropped the shields on Starkiller Base. She evidently wiped the computer records to cover her tracks (God I love this self-serving bitch), but there were three witnesses to her act. One is dead, the other’s whereabouts are unknown, but If the third, Finn, should show up? Well, the reconditioning had better be good because if there’s any chance of him ratting her out she’ll make certain he never talks again.
The progatonists’ and antagonists’ plans collide when the purported contact with the leadership of the uprising turns out to be a trap to lure Finn into the First Order’s power. Finn and Rose fight their way out and go to Crait? Idk. Kylo Ren realizes his quarry has fled and pursues him to Crait.
Turns out, Rey and Luke are on Crait, too! Maybe Rey had a vision much as Luke did in ESB and saw Finn being captured on Crait, and rushed with Chewie to rescue him. Luke might be all hell yeah, good riddance for a while before he realizes the girl got to him more than he’d thought (or wanted) and follows after her.
Epic battle is joined on Crait, including a reunion between Kylo and Luke and a rematch. Maybe Luke and Rey will double-team Kylo! But the Knights of Ren are there and their Master is stronger than before, and Luke is fighting his own anger and despair and trying not to turn as Kylo urges him to and Rey warns him against. Rey herself is trying not to be overwhelmed by her rage, too, at the memory of Han’s death.
Enter Finn! He, Rose, and the Resistance keep the Knights of Ren busy. Kylo goes into a berserker rage at the sight of Finn in a way that has nothing to do with the First Order and everything to do with his own insecurities. Finn realizes he can make Ren lose control just with his presence, plus maybe a few well-timed insults. Seeing Finn has the opposite effect on Rey, who becomes calmer and stronger.
Finn and Rey banter in the midst of battle even while Kylo Ren goes increasingly haywire. Meanwhile the First Order troops arrive, cutting a swathe through the Resistance and trying to get at Finn. He shoots down Stormtrooper after Stormtrooper before he realizes they are trying to capture him alive. In the sky Poe’s squadron is in danger and Poe himself is just barely keeping himself in the air under heavy fire. Resistance reinforcements led by Admiral Holdo are to arrive any moment, but no one is sure they can hold on that long.
Finn then goes into a sort of momentary trance where all the information he learned so far clicks to a conclusion, and he makes a choice. He does the last thing his enemies, or indeed his allies, expected: He lures Kylo Ren into being captured, but in the process also walks into the First Order’s clutches himself. The entire Resistance are aghast and Rey struggles to fight her way to his side, but he tells her, even while he’s being held down and cuffed, to concentrate on securing Kylo Ren. He gets it now. He’s going to start the Stormtrooper uprising from the inside.
The First Order, now that it has its main target, hurries to retreat ahead of the Resistance reinforcements. The hard-pressed ground and air forces gain a sudden reprieve. Rey, watching helpless from the ground with too many enemies between them as Finn is manhandled onto a First Order ship, says very calmly–we don’t hear her voice, only see her lips move through the noise and the viewport of the ship–I love you.
Finn smiles slowly, tenderly back, though he knows she can’t see him. He says nothing, not even to mouth the words, but we can all fill in the “I know” for ourselves. Despite the fear in his eyes he is peaceful; the path is clear ahead of him, though far from easy.
In space, the Resistance reinforcements arrive but the First Order blinks into hyperspace ahead of them. Poe is ordered to cease pursuit–they have no chance if they fly into First Order space. Poe hits his console in frustration and promises his buddy they’re not giving up on him.
Cut to credits.
So good! I think all of this is plausible (what happens to Rose, tho?) Some ESB parallels, but a very different story. And it would end with Rey going after Kylo as many have speculated, and I also think is plausible (noreylo).
A Stormtrooper revolution would be HUGE. A revolution of Stormtroopers taking down the FO with the help of the Resistance? Chills just thinking about it.
Thanks! I just noticed it has a major ROTJ parallel as well, with Finn voluntarily giving himself up to torment and possible death in the hope of saving others who share a kinship with him. He also “saves” Kylo Ren under this scenario, though it would be Ren himself who’d have to take the steps to change. But I also like the idea of Ren capturing Finn and Rey going after them. It’s certainly more fitting (and terrifying), and my op does defang the villain too soon. I’m just amused at the idea of Phasma and Hic not giving a shit that Rem has been captured, like “Oh. What a tragedy. Whatever shall we do. We shall avenge you Ren we swear. Woe is me. Now let’s go, boys, we got the man who isn’t a proven flop!”
Finn under this version of events is going on faith based on bits of glimpsed information that the Stormtrooper uprising exists, even if the people he contacted were fake. (Fridge horror moment: MAYBE THEY WEREN’T. Maybe they were real revolutionaries posing as fakes trying to capture Finn so he can lead the revolution from the inside, and Finn realizes this later on. Bonus points if he or Rose killed one or more of them escaping, and it was their last words that tipped him off.) He’s staking his life and selfhood on someone else’s goodness much as Luke did in ROTJ.
I can’t envision Rose’s role here heeelllllp! Most of my speculation about her focused on her role in an internal Resistance-Republic conflict (which would provide a parallel to the dissension in the FO) and on the missions I just vaguely imagined her being badass alongside Finn. Maybe she defies her Republic peers to do the right thing and that gives Finn all the more faith that the Stormtrooper uprising is real?
If so, it may be that the other TLJ plots involving Finn and Rose, the mission to the casino planet and infiltrating a First Order star destroyer, are lead-ups to that event. Do Finn and Rose go on a mission to get in touch with the leaders of this uprising? Does this meeting lead further to the two of them posing as First Order officers in order to get the mutiny started?
Information about this possible uprising could be what convinces Finn not to leave the fight. The trauma from Slip’s death was part of his motivation for leaving the First Order, and he can’t leave thousands more like Slip to be destroyed when they are desperate for a leader–for him, the symbol of the humanity and defiance behind the helmet.
Tying this in with earlier information and speculation about the remnants of the New Republic fleet and the original Resistance being in a power struggle, maybe the Republic faction is willing to leave the mutinous Stormtroopers high and dry. It’s too risky, Vice Admiral Holdo may decide, and it could be a trap. She may pay lip service to Finn’s bravery, but now that tens of thousands of others like him are willing to do the same thing she’s willing to let them die, showing just how much she really cares.
This would anger Finn and leave him with an even greater sense of obligation, and when Leia offers him a risky mission to get him in contact with the leaders of the uprising he snaps it up. If we go with the theory that Rose is a Republic soldier herself, she might volunteer and be chosen as a way for the Republic fleet to claim some stake in the mission. Maybe no one expects her to do much but she would prove them very wrong.
The First Order would obviously be looking for Finn, too, and the Stormtrooper secret police would probably be doing double duty tracking down internal signs of disloyalty and also the heart of the brewing revolt–because make no mistake, Finn is the soul and heart of the uprising no matter where he may be. The Order would love to see him dead, or better yet, captured, reconditioned, and turned into a mouthpiece.
Captain Phasma would love to see Finn a corpse or a husk, too, though unlike the Order she prefers the first option. Finn not only threatened and humiliated her, he knows that she was the one who dropped the shields on Starkiller Base. She evidently wiped the computer records to cover her tracks (God I love this self-serving bitch), but there were three witnesses to her act. One is dead, the other’s whereabouts are unknown, but If the third, Finn, should show up? Well, the reconditioning had better be good because if there’s any chance of him ratting her out she’ll make certain he never talks again.
The progatonists’ and antagonists’ plans collide when the purported contact with the leadership of the uprising turns out to be a trap to lure Finn into the First Order’s power. Finn and Rose fight their way out and go to Crait? Idk. Kylo Ren realizes his quarry has fled and pursues him to Crait.
Turns out, Rey and Luke are on Crait, too! Maybe Rey had a vision much as Luke did in ESB and saw Finn being captured on Crait, and rushed with Chewie to rescue him. Luke might be all hell yeah, good riddance for a while before he realizes the girl got to him more than he’d thought (or wanted) and follows after her.
Epic battle is joined on Crait, including a reunion between Kylo and Luke and a rematch. Maybe Luke and Rey will double-team Kylo! But the Knights of Ren are there and their Master is stronger than before, and Luke is fighting his own anger and despair and trying not to turn as Kylo urges him to and Rey warns him against. Rey herself is trying not to be overwhelmed by her rage, too, at the memory of Han’s death.
Enter Finn! He, Rose, and the Resistance keep the Knights of Ren busy. Kylo goes into a berserker rage at the sight of Finn in a way that has nothing to do with the First Order and everything to do with his own insecurities. Finn realizes he can make Ren lose control just with his presence, plus maybe a few well-timed insults. Seeing Finn has the opposite effect on Rey, who becomes calmer and stronger.
Finn and Rey banter in the midst of battle even while Kylo Ren goes increasingly haywire. Meanwhile the First Order troops arrive, cutting a swathe through the Resistance and trying to get at Finn. He shoots down Stormtrooper after Stormtrooper before he realizes they are trying to capture him alive. In the sky Poe’s squadron is in danger and Poe himself is just barely keeping himself in the air under heavy fire. Resistance reinforcements led by Admiral Holdo are to arrive any moment, but no one is sure they can hold on that long.
Finn then goes into a sort of momentary trance where all the information he learned so far clicks to a conclusion, and he makes a choice. He does the last thing his enemies, or indeed his allies, expected: He lures Kylo Ren into being captured, but in the process also walks into the First Order’s clutches himself. The entire Resistance are aghast and Rey struggles to fight her way to his side, but he tells her, even while he’s being held down and cuffed, to concentrate on securing Kylo Ren. He gets it now. He’s going to start the Stormtrooper uprising from the inside.
The First Order, now that it has its main target, hurries to retreat ahead of the Resistance reinforcements. The hard-pressed ground and air forces gain a sudden reprieve. Rey, watching helpless from the ground with too many enemies between them as Finn is manhandled onto a First Order ship, says very calmly–we don’t hear her voice, only see her lips move through the noise and the viewport of the ship–I love you.
Finn smiles slowly, tenderly back, though he knows she can’t see him. He says nothing, not even to mouth the words, but we can all fill in the “I know” for ourselves. Despite the fear in his eyes he is peaceful; the path is clear ahead of him, though far from easy.
In space, the Resistance reinforcements arrive but the First Order blinks into hyperspace ahead of them. Poe is ordered to cease pursuit–they have no chance if they fly into First Order space. Poe hits his console in frustration and promises his buddy they’re not giving up on him.
Going to cut out this part of @lj-writes comment to my meta because I might be going off on a tangent and I hate derailing, even my own posts.
Also, I went back and listened to John’s narration as Jake, and noticed something weird in the opening sentences. So my first impression was that the narration was supposed to go like this:
You’re absolutely right, it changes the everything completely. And there’s something else interesting in this light.
Because the speech goes on: “And the war we thought was finished, is just beginning” and while Jake says this, we cut back to the scene with child!Amara where civilians and helicopters of unknown affiliation are being attacked by the Jaegers and we see a Jaeger fire a group of missiles that seems to hit a military looking person.
There’s obviously more than one war going on here. There was a war between the Kaiju and the humans, but that’s not the only war we see here.
And then there’s Jake speech to the Jaeger pilots a little later:
“It doesn’t matter where you come from. Who believed in you and who didn’t. This is our time, our chance, to make a difference. Now let’s get it done.”
Okay, again. It could be your average inspirational speech before going to fight the Kaiju, that’s entirely possible, but with above in mind and the fact that the group we so briefly see looks a bit like a group of misfits, I’m again wondering if we’re seeing a bunch of idealists going rogue with their Jaegers. And taking them not just against the Kaiju, but against those who would use them against humanity.
It is also worth nothing in this context that it is after this point that we see all but one of the Jaeger vs Jaeger fights.
And then there’s the Kaiju themselves. In the first movie we were pretty much told that they were mindless monsters, end of story. But this time we’re told that they’re more intelligent than first assumed. And one of the scientists from the first movie communicated with them.
Makes me again wonder, who is going to be the real bad guy in the movie. If they’re going to reverse expectations, or if we’re going to maybe see two?
Yup, from the sheer amount of Jaeger vs. Jaeger fighting in the trailer it’s clear that conflict between humans is a major part of the film. It would be boring tbh if the fighting were all against kaiju, since there was sort of an entire movie about that already.
And regarding the part of the narration you mentioned, what if the “war we thought was finished” ISN’T the kaiju war, at least at first? As you point out, we hear this narration as we watch fighting between humans. What if the war Jake refers to is a conflict between states that the world thought was over with when the existential threat to humanity intervened, but flared up again after the kaiju war ended–this time with giant robots?
Also, what if the new kaiju threat is related to this human war? It always bothered me that the kaiju simply showing up again years later seemed like an invalidation of Stacker’s sacrifice. What if one of the parties involved in the wars decided to open a rift to bring the kaiju BACK to attack/destroy an enemy? (It was a major plot point in PacRim 1 that humans found a way to get into kaiju heads, after all.) Or it could be a Watchmen kind of deal where another idealist, this one twisted and ruthless, sincerely believes a new kaiju threat is the only way to stop war between humans. This way the two plot threads of interhuman and interspecies conflict would cohere together and not be a random pile of events.
Ever since we got the teaser trailer for Pacific Rim Uprising and I got some “semi creepy propaganda” vibes of it and its promotion of the Jaeger program, I’ve been wondering what the Jaeger program turned into post the First Kaiju war. And with the trailer released I’m wondering even more.
Because the Jaegers and the Jaeger program aren’t phrased as a good here – they’re literally called “the monsters we created” and it’s Jake who’s talking here – but as a necessary evil to fight a greater and more destructive evil.
I’m wondering if the Jaegers were used to keep a fearful populace in check? If Jake saw where it all was headed even before the end of the first war and that that is why he left the program? If he had a falling out with his father and sister about it? And if that’s why he got caught up in the criminal underworld which might be the only “free” place left?
Of course, with the Kaiju back in force the Jaegers are once more a very necessary evil and Jake decides for his own reasons to join up again to help.
A few more thoughts after watching the trailer again.
This would go a way to explain Amara, that 15 yo Jaeger hacker that’s in the movie. Why would someone hack a Jaeger?
Okay I know it’s common human nature for some to try and break into stuff where they shouldn’t be, not out of malice but just to see if they can. But on the other hand, it might indicate that some humans anyway seems to need/want protection from the Jaegers.
And then there’s the opening scene where we see said hacker standing in the middle of what looks like a Jaeger attack, but there seems to be no Kaiju around. It looks more like the Jaegers attacking ordinary humans. Then a bit later we see Jake get off something (a helicopter carrier?) along with the 15 yo girl. So she’s with him, and by extension probably part of that criminal underworld mentioned in the synopsis.
Holy shit, I think you’re on to something! You’re right that we don’t see kaiju in the opening of the trailer. In fact, look at what a Jaeger is doing in the background here:
It’s smashing an aircraft, not fighting Kaiju. This is either Jaegers being used in warfare or in some kind of civilian repression, and I’m guessing the latter because this is clearly an urban area and not a battlefield.
Also, I went back and listened to John’s narration as Jake, and noticed something weird in the opening sentences. So my first impression was that the narration was supposed to go like this:
“We were born into a world at war between the monsters that destroyed our cities and the monsters we created to stop them. We thought we had sacrificed enough.”
Which would be straightforward, right? There was a war between the Kaiju and Jaegers, a war that caused untold loss.
But that reading is strange on a couple of levels. For one thing, the war wasn’t between Kaiju and Jaegers, it was between the Kaiju and humans. It would be like saying World War 2 was between Japan and nuclear bombs, it doesn’t fit. For another, that first sentence, “We were born into a world at war” sounds like a complete sentence and the next part, “between the monsters…” reads like the beginning of a new sentence.
So what if the narration actually reads like this?
“We were born into a world at war. Between the monsters that destroyed our cities and the monsters we created to stop them, we thought we had sacrificed enough.”
Completely changes the meaning, doesn’t it? It gets rid of the awkwardness of putting Jaegers, which are weapons of war, in the position of a party to the war. It also sounds closer to my ears to how John is reading the words.
Most significantly, this reading presents the Jaegers as an evil or at the very least a tremendous drain that demanded sacrifices–of expenses and resources, for a start, but what if there was more? Civil liberties? Human lives?
There’s more evidence that Jaegers are being used in conflicts between human groups. There’s the scene of missiles flying in from behind Jaegers to hit some kind of command center, and since when do Kaiju shoot missiles? Those are clearly of human make.
And of course, since those in power make the rules, the “criminal underworld” may simply be people trying to live away from the police state’s control and outlawed for that reason. This possibility helps me feel a lot better about the whole criminal angle, because I really was not looking forward to the prospect of Jake being some unruly delinquent that Mako has to talk into doing the right thing.
If the Jaeger program did go bad, it’s likely to be after 2025 when the events of Pacific Rim took place, since the program was being shut down in the early to mid 2020s and wasn’t in a position of power. Since Stacker died in 2025 before the Jaeger program was diverted Jake’s fallout is unlikely to have been with him, at least over this particular issue.
The period after 2025 and Stacker Pentecost’s death would be a perfect time for the rot to set in. There would be the enormous political capital from the awe toward Jaegers and pilots, the surplus military hardware available at a time of peace (from the Kaiju, anyway), and the militaristic mindset of preparing for the next war through “unity” which would really be thinly-veiled code for obedience and suppression of dissent. All this would set the stage for the countries in the Pan Pacific Defense Corps to turn against each other and/or their own populations.
Assuming Jake had moral objections to the direction the Jaeger program was taking he’d have all the more reason to get off the grid into the underground. Much like Mako, he’s a child of Stacker Pentecost and a perfect pawn for propaganda. If he wants no part in that he’d have to go into hiding because repressive police states are not known for taking kindly to rejection.
L.J.'s Obsessions 