I’ve seen it suggested that without Bendemption and Reylo, IX will be nothing but a moral-conflict-free romp for our heroes. And seriously, wtf?
Finn is a walking moral dilemma all on his own. Because for him and everyone who loves him he raises a terrible question about every enemy Stormtrooper they kill – could they have been another Finn in the making?
The First Order is an organisation run by powerful people who made terrible choices. But its wars are fought by child soldiers who were never given any choice at all.
That’s what makes the battle we’re set to see happen in IX so fascinating. It’s not that the causes themselves are morally grey. The Resistance are clearly fighting for good and the First Order is unquestionably evil. And yet good can’t fight its cause without slaughtering innocents, and I think that’s the most interesting possible dilemma we could be asked to see play out.
And hell yeah I want to see Finn try to resolve it by leading a Stormtrooper revolt. And I want conflict among our heroes too. I want Rey, with her absolutist morality, to oppose Finn. I want Rey to show her love for Finn *through* her opposition – it’s because she believes Finn is so very special, so brave and so good-hearted that she doesn’t think any other Stormtroopers can live up to his example.
And I want Finn to want to believe that what she thinks about him is true – while doing everything he can to prove her wrong. And in succeeding, in leading his fellow Stormtroopers to freedom, he’ll show what *is* special about him as well as what’s special in everyone, if you can find a way of calling it out.
I want IX to explore every crack and fault line in Finn and Rey’s relationship so they can discover together how strong its foundations are.
This makes perfect sense because you know what else would have hardened Rey against the idea of redemption for fascist killers?
The incident with “Ben” would have only confirmed in Rey’s mind that Finn is one of a kind, and that expecting others to follow Finn’s example would only end in heartbreak and destruction. She was burned badly when she trusted in Kylo Ren’s goodness and wouldn’t want Finn to risk his emotions and life in the same way, on a far greater scale with potentially deadly consequences at that. She barely made it out herself and can’t bear the thought of losing him.
If the story went this way it would be yet another parallel to Anidala, except much more robust. As seen in a clip from AotC (link), Padmé believed steadfastly in democracy–for some people anyway, Clones, Tuskens and other undesirables need not apply–while Anakin did not shy away from advocating a dictatorship in the face of democratic dysfunction. Similarly, we would get to see Finn believe in ordinary people’s ability to make choices for the good, with his vision being actually democratic and not just thinly-disguised aristocratic rule like the Senate that Padmé believed in. Rey’s healthy skepticism in the idea that non-Finn people brought up to evil could turn away from it would be sympathetic and rational under the circumstances.
Under this scenario it’s interesting that Finn and Rey are confirmed to be together for all or most of IX. Depending on how early this conflict starts we could watch them in truly interesting arguments yet still bound together by the mission and mutual affection. And man would I love it.
*time for tinfoil hat*
Reading that leak on reddit (spoilers in link, duh). If that scene and the whole Wadi Rum sequence happens early and if it is as I suspect a battle with the First Order Finn, Rey and Chewie finds themselves in, it could be the starting shot for that.
Finn ran into Nines on the battlefield on Takodana, this battle may again confront him with an old “friend” from his Stormtropper days. But what if that person or squad does not immediately try to kill him? The FO isn’t going to be able to keep knowledge about Finn’s defection and escape secret from its foot soldiers forever and while a good deal will go with the Nines mentality (traitor!) others would be considering trying to get out too.
Of course getting out and then staying alive is hard when you have no one on the outside on your side. But if they’re confronted with Finn they might see him a possibility to get them away from the First Order’s clutches.
Depending on how exactly such a scene played out it could open up a lot of interesting ways the story of IX could go.
~Mod Mara
Remember how we were geeking out pre-TLJ about the possibility of seeing Zeroes? If we see him on screen I would die. Like absolutely croak. It would make sense, too, for Finn’s old squadmates to represent the gamut of Stormtrooper responses to their situation.
Slip: The victim. Was part of Finn’s brutal awakening to the reality of the First Order and left his mark on Finn, literally.
Nines: The believer. Reacted to Finn’s “betrayal” with self-righteous anger. Also canon fodder but got in some blows at his old squad leader, verbal and physical.
Zeroes: The survivor, going by his Before the Awakening characterization. As I discussed in a pre-TLJ meta that was largely about him (link), Zeroes in BtA is a sharp, ambitious guy who is very aware of power relations and is good at reading people. He has the makings of a top-notch intelligence officer and, on the flip side, would be just the type to pull the strings of an uprising from the inside.
If Zeroes were to encounter Finn in battle I can see him putting on a good show of trying to get Finn and his friends while failing to land the fatal blow and sending a message that way. Finn puzzles over it, finds out more, and later they have their confrontation with Finn going “YOU” and Zeroes being all calm and smug like the smooth operator he is.
I’ve seen it suggested that without Bendemption and Reylo, IX will be nothing but a moral-conflict-free romp for our heroes. And seriously, wtf?
Finn is a walking moral dilemma all on his own. Because for him and everyone who loves him he raises a terrible question about every enemy Stormtrooper they kill – could they have been another Finn in the making?
The First Order is an organisation run by powerful people who made terrible choices. But its wars are fought by child soldiers who were never given any choice at all.
That’s what makes the battle we’re set to see happen in IX so fascinating. It’s not that the causes themselves are morally grey. The Resistance are clearly fighting for good and the First Order is unquestionably evil. And yet good can’t fight its cause without slaughtering innocents, and I think that’s the most interesting possible dilemma we could be asked to see play out.
And hell yeah I want to see Finn try to resolve it by leading a Stormtrooper revolt. And I want conflict among our heroes too. I want Rey, with her absolutist morality, to oppose Finn. I want Rey to show her love for Finn *through* her opposition – it’s because she believes Finn is so very special, so brave and so good-hearted that she doesn’t think any other Stormtroopers can live up to his example.
And I want Finn to want to believe that what she thinks about him is true – while doing everything he can to prove her wrong. And in succeeding, in leading his fellow Stormtroopers to freedom, he’ll show what *is* special about him as well as what’s special in everyone, if you can find a way of calling it out.
I want IX to explore every crack and fault line in Finn and Rey’s relationship so they can discover together how strong its foundations are.
This makes perfect sense because you know what else would have hardened Rey against the idea of redemption for fascist killers?
The incident with “Ben” would have only confirmed in Rey’s mind that Finn is one of a kind, and that expecting others to follow Finn’s example would only end in heartbreak and destruction. She was burned badly when she trusted in Kylo Ren’s goodness and wouldn’t want Finn to risk his emotions and life in the same way, on a far greater scale with potentially deadly consequences at that. She barely made it out herself and can’t bear the thought of losing him.
If the story went this way it would be yet another parallel to Anidala, except much more robust. As seen in a clip from AotC (link), Padmé believed steadfastly in democracy–for some people anyway, Clones, Tuskens and other undesirables need not apply–while Anakin did not shy away from advocating a dictatorship in the face of democratic dysfunction. Similarly, we would get to see Finn believe in ordinary people’s ability to make choices for the good, with his vision being actually democratic and not just thinly-disguised aristocratic rule like the Senate that Padmé believed in. Rey’s healthy skepticism in the idea that non-Finn people brought up to evil could turn away from it would be sympathetic and rational under the circumstances.
Under this scenario it’s interesting that Finn and Rey are confirmed to be together for all or most of IX. Depending on how early this conflict starts we could watch them in truly interesting arguments yet still bound together by the mission and mutual affection. And man would I love it.
I love this. And also I love that in this scenario their dynamic is reversed from what it was in TFA – with Finn bravely ready to step back into the maw of the First Order and Rey terrified for his life and begging him not to go.
I’ve seen it suggested that without Bendemption and Reylo, IX will be nothing but a moral-conflict-free romp for our heroes. And seriously, wtf?
Finn is a walking moral dilemma all on his own. Because for him and everyone who loves him he raises a terrible question about every enemy Stormtrooper they kill – could they have been another Finn in the making?
The First Order is an organisation run by powerful people who made terrible choices. But its wars are fought by child soldiers who were never given any choice at all.
That’s what makes the battle we’re set to see happen in IX so fascinating. It’s not that the causes themselves are morally grey. The Resistance are clearly fighting for good and the First Order is unquestionably evil. And yet good can’t fight its cause without slaughtering innocents, and I think that’s the most interesting possible dilemma we could be asked to see play out.
And hell yeah I want to see Finn try to resolve it by leading a Stormtrooper revolt. And I want conflict among our heroes too. I want Rey, with her absolutist morality, to oppose Finn. I want Rey to show her love for Finn *through* her opposition – it’s because she believes Finn is so very special, so brave and so good-hearted that she doesn’t think any other Stormtroopers can live up to his example.
And I want Finn to want to believe that what she thinks about him is true – while doing everything he can to prove her wrong. And in succeeding, in leading his fellow Stormtroopers to freedom, he’ll show what *is* special about him as well as what’s special in everyone, if you can find a way of calling it out.
I want IX to explore every crack and fault line in Finn and Rey’s relationship so they can discover together how strong its foundations are.
This makes perfect sense because you know what else would have hardened Rey against the idea of redemption for fascist killers?
The incident with “Ben” would have only confirmed in Rey’s mind that Finn is one of a kind, and that expecting others to follow Finn’s example would only end in heartbreak and destruction. She was burned badly when she trusted in Kylo Ren’s goodness and wouldn’t want Finn to risk his emotions and life in the same way, on a far greater scale with potentially deadly consequences at that. She barely made it out herself and can’t bear the thought of losing him.
If the story went this way it would be yet another parallel to Anidala, except much more robust. As seen in a clip from AotC (link), Padmé believed steadfastly in democracy–for some people anyway, Clones, Tuskens and other undesirables need not apply–while Anakin did not shy away from advocating a dictatorship in the face of democratic dysfunction. Similarly, we would get to see Finn believe in ordinary people’s ability to make choices for the good, with his vision being actually democratic and not just thinly-disguised aristocratic rule like the Senate that Padmé believed in. Rey’s healthy skepticism in the idea that non-Finn people brought up to evil could turn away from it would be sympathetic and rational under the circumstances.
Under this scenario it’s interesting that Finn and Rey are confirmed to be together for all or most of IX. Depending on how early this conflict starts we could watch them in truly interesting arguments yet still bound together by the mission and mutual affection. And man would I love it.
What if the first teaser trailer for IX is us seeing a cloaked, hooded figure creating a lightsaber. We can’t see their face because of the hood hanging low and we don’t see the hands either, just the a tool making the final corrections for the weapon before it is done and there’s a deep sigh as the tool is placed on a tray among many others.
Then we hear Rey’s voice saying, “Well, let’s see if this works”, but when the figure stand up and ignites the lightsaber we see that it’s been Finn who was working on it.
Tbh I might keel over dead if that happened and I can’t think of a better way for JJ to create hype and attention for IX and to get people talking about Star Wars again.
~Mod Mara
That got me thinking about where Finn might get the kyber crystal for his lightsaber, and I’m particularly taken with the idea of him taking crystals previously used for evil and changing them for his own use. My previous thought was that he might get one from a defeated Knight of Ren, or even get his hands on an old Sith lightsaber, and purify the tainted crystal like Ahsoka did.
Another source of kyber that would be fraught with meaning is Starkiller Base. SKB used to be a planet with a large kyber crystal deposit, which the Empire mined for the Death Star and the FO later used when they turned the planet into a superweapon. Now, SKB may be destroyed but kyber crystals are evidently stable at the pressure and temperature at the core of large stars, so chances are the crystals themselves survived though they may have drifted far away from the force of the explosion. What if Finn were to find a crystal, or be drawn to one, and made his ‘saber from that? He was once stationed on SKB, and there would be a lot of symbolism in his turning a weapon of mass destruction to a force for protection.
If we speak of destroyed planets with a large kyber deposit, of course, we can’t leave out our old standby Jedha. Idk how much kyber there would be left after the Empire strip-mined it, but chances are there would be enough left over for lightsabers. It’s also interesting in this context that Wadi Rum, one of the shooting locations for IX, was the location of Jedha in Rogue One. I mean even if IX includes a return to Jedha the landscape would be significantly changed, to put it mildly, to the extent any Jedha scenes shot in Jordan would have to be dressed up a lot in effects or might be better off shot against a green screen in the first place. Still, it’s an intriguing possibility and I would dearly love both an acknowledgment of Jedha’s devastation and its treasures–both mineral and spiritual–turned against the Empire’s successor.
I think it’s become all but imperative for anything like a realistic Resistance victory after Johnson killed off all but a dozen of the Resistance in TLJ. The Resistance is toast if they can’t shave off the FO’s numerical advantage. It would give Finn a meaningful plot that isn’t just busywork, would bring his and Kylo’s enmity to a head (you thought Kylo hated Finn in TFA? Wait until Finn dissolves his little wannabe Empire from under his feet), would bring the series full circle from the enslavement of the Clones, would give the culturally iconic imagery of the Stormtroopers a whole new and positive meaning, making for something actually subversive and new, AND would be excellent fodder for post-IX shows and comics. Honestly it would be a giant missed opportunity on so many levels if they passed on a Trooper uprising.
Opening action scene for IX: Rey with a purple double bladed lightsaber and Finn with the Darksaber vs Kylo and the Knights of Ren in a broken down Empire ship on Jakku as BB-8 blares duel of fates.
I’m in late Season 1 so nobody spoil me, but I never seem to see a child in The Good Place (as in the afterlife, not the show–we obviously see the main characters as children in flashbacks) and it’s wigging me out. If there are only the Good Place and the Bad Place after death, and there are no children in TGP, what does that mean? They don’t seem to meet the requirements for going to TGP because of course they’re selfish and obnoxious fucks, they’re kids! Is there a separate place for deceased children? Do they get a U-turn reincarnation because it’s too early, and if so what’s the cutoff line–the age of reason? Age of drinking? Or is the unthinkable true and is the system even more fucked up than it seems?
@awakening5 Oh we have SO many theories and questions swirling around. SPOILERS BELOW
My current theory is that no one, or at least none of the main cast, actually earned a spot in TGP. I mean come on, they all mean well but other than Real Eleanor and the like are any of them really in the top 1% or whatever of humanity for selfless goodness? Maybe the “bugs” in the system are someone’s–or something’s–attempt to fix a deeply unjust system. My husband suspects Michael is behind it all, while I suspect Janet. Maybe this yet-unseen Shawn (Sean?) has something to do with it.
I mean the thing with Real Eleanor and Fake Eleanor? Maybe an honest clerical error. But Jason and Jianyu? That’s too much. I even wondered if Jianyu is a real monk who’s in the Bad Place because of a mixup like Real Eleanor, but my husband thinks the show is unlikely to do the same plot twice and I agree. Which means there are now TWO known bugs, and I suspect many more, in what’s supposedly an infallible system. That can’t be a coincidence. Was Jianyu even a real Taiwanese monk, or was the identity a pretext to get Jason into TGP? I guess we’ll get at least a few answers today, since we plan to watch the last three episodes of Season 1 today.
@lidicores Thanks! I guess it comes of being the mother of a young child. My husband was thunderstruck and creeped out when I pointed it out, too. Maybe like @cantina-band and @foxbullfrog said it’s nbd and no one wants to deal with depressing shit like kids dying in a comedy show. Heck, we’ve only seen one neighborhood, maybe there’s a more kid-friendly paradise elsewhere with unlimited sweets and water slides, and the people who loved them in life join them there :’)
I’m in late Season 1 so nobody spoil me, but I never seem to see a child in The Good Place (as in the afterlife, not the show–we obviously see the main characters as children in flashbacks) and it’s wigging me out. If there are only the Good Place and the Bad Place after death, and there are no children in TGP, what does that mean? They don’t seem to meet the requirements for going to TGP because of course they’re selfish and obnoxious fucks, they’re kids! Is there a separate place for deceased children? Do they get a U-turn reincarnation because it’s too early, and if so what’s the cutoff line–the age of reason? Age of drinking? Or is the unthinkable true and is the system even more fucked up than it seems?
oooooh that is so interesting. Yeah I looked it up and it stated that Force Voids usually show up in people who have “natural leanings toward the dark side of the Force, who gravitated or were naturally drawn to it.” And you’re absolutely right that if Finn ends up being a Force Void then it really would underline the whole them of Choice and highlight their standings as foils to one another.
If Finn is a Force Void it’d certainly lend credence as to why he wasn’t sought out (at least in canon as we know it) to be in the Knights since he’d just fade into the background when he doesn’t want to be noticed. It’d make me wonder what Kylo sensed though when he stopped and stared at Finn in the beginning of tfa
One thing I absolutely need to be in IX, an explanation for what the hell Kylo sensed when he stopped and stared at Finn. It is such a pivotal moment yet it has never once been addressed.
Because from the pov of the general audience, that is where Kylo’s obsession with Finn seems to begin. He sensed something, something happened in those seconds, and we damn well need to know what that something was.
And yes Finn being a Force void would explain how a strongly Force senstive person could exist in the First Order and neither Snoke nor Kylo ever sense him. They’d have to be really close to him and possibly there would also have to be something in Finn that broke down the barrier, like you know, witnessing a massacre. So Tuanul would be the first time either of them senses Finn.
Finn’s being a Force void would also be a neat outgrowth of his character background, where he constantly feared being noticed and hurt. It would make sense for his Force ability to develop along these lines, as a shield and protection in a hostile environment. Others have pointed out that no one seeing or helping Finn in TLJ when he was walking around in a leaking bacta suit was weird, as was his being able to pull Rose back to the bunker on Crait in one piece. It’s “these are not the droids you are looking for” all over again, except not on just one person he’s directly interacting with but every single onlooker that he might not even be aware of. Imagine how useful that would have been in the dangerous environment he grew up in, where he could blend in and not be seen when, say, Kylo Ren was in a foul mood breaking things up nearby. His being able to avoid Force detection and harm would be on the same continuum of protection.
I’m the opposite, I want him to continue to go unmasked. Abandoning the mask symbolized his choosing the Dark Side, not abandoning it, and also showed that he’s a different kind of villain than Vader–a visibly human one, not seemingly monstrous and mechanical as Vader was. Kylo was play-acting as Vader in the mask; his unmasked face shows him coming into his own. His is the unsettlingly normal and human face of evil and I think that should continue in IX.
L.J.'s Obsessions 