I think that’s a key point, that it DOESN’T MATTER whether Kylo has doubts or has his fee-fees hurt by committing murder or whatever. He gets such a massive amount of credit for his fucking feelings, it’s laughable. It doesn’t matter how bad or conflicted he may feel, his actions are heinous and he has committed crimes he can never fully atone for. It’s his choices that matter, not his regrets or feelings.
Some interesting development on the Episode IX shooting front.
Yesterday John posted this pic on his Instragram of him flying somewhere
and today he posted a video of a prayer call from a mosque, here a screencap of the video.
Now a quick bit of Googlemancy have led me to believe that that is the Abu Dawoud mosque in Aqaba, Jordan.
Why is this at all interesting?
Because Aqaba is the closest large city to the Wadi Rum desert where the IX team started shooting about a week and a half ago as reported by Making Star Wars. The person who initially noticed the IX set being set up in Wadi Rum said he thought he saw Daisy Ridley being given a tour, but he only saw her at a distance and in a brief glimpse, and frankly given the number of youngish, white brunettes in Star Wars there are others it could have been: Daisy’ stunt double or Keri Russle just to name two we know are involved in IX.
But if Daisy it was it is just confirmation of what we already knew, that Finn and Rey will spend a good deal of time together in IX.
What’s interesting to me is where this is supposed to be. Speculation have gone into it as the Making Star Wars page shows, personally I find the most compelling theory to be Jakku if it is a repeat location and not somewhere entirely new.
I could see Rey go back to Jakku to find answers about her family that aren’t told to her by a Dark sider known to be lying through his teeth.
For Finn there’s another thing entirely. For one thing emotional closure over what happened at Tuanul, there was nothing he could have done to prevent what happened but that massacre left a profound impact on him and he might feel a need now that time have passed to face the location again. For another there is on Jakku an old Imperial base, in fact it’s the base where the First Order was born so to speak, when Rae Sloane killed Gallius Rax and took the Imperial remnant with her to the secret location discovered by the late Emperor where the Empire could be reborn. And finally that base is also where Brendol Hux, father of Armitage Hux, first created what later became known as Operation resurrection, the First Order’s code name for the Stormtrooper program.
Yes there is indeed many interesting plots that could be spawned by a revisit to Jakky for Finn and Rey both.
~Mod Mara
A Star Wars sequel movie? Do actual worldbuilding and follow through on its own and EU materials’ plot threads? Dare I hope? Jakku on TFA was filmed at Rub’ al Khali desert, Abu Dhabi, but there’s precedent for location changes on the same planet. The Tatooine scenes in ANH were filmed around Tunisia but the ones in RotJ were filmed in U.S. locations, for instance.
A potential point of interest is that Rub’ al Khali is a sand desert, the largest continuous sand desert (erg) in the world, while Wadi Rum is a valley, the largest in Jordan. Rub’ al Khali was perfect for shooting things like the trackless desert that Finn wandered through, while Wadi Rum would be great for showing dramatic crag formations–like the Jakku Observatory located under the Plaintive Hand Plateau, perhaps, which Rax was originally guarding?
(Wadi Rum, btw, evidently means “the valley of light/airborne sand.” I’m guessing we won’t see Anakin’s Force ghost there.)
Tuanul was also a religious community, and the Church of the Force could tie into a larger plot about the Force. The Lor San Tekka character was set up to be a seeker after the ways of the Force much like Maz and Chirrut. He was a Church member too, since the days of the Empire when it was illegal in fact, so it’s easy to see why he would have been with them when he was on an inhospitable world. But what was he doing there? Was he on a religious retreat, or visiting with his religious brethren? Or was he a guest while on other business? If so, what was he trying to discover?
It would be perfect if Finn and Rey could revisit the sites of their trauma amid all this plot and worldbuilding as well. Finn could go to the ruins of Tuanul, perhaps to look for clues, and Rey could see the devastation for herself and see what Finn was talking about when he said he made a choice. Rey could visit Niima outpost, or its remains if it was destroyed. At minimum I want an answer what the ship she saw flying away was about. Finn and Rey could support each other and talk, something they didn’t get to do in TLJ or even TFA.
I have talked before about how the Resistance could still grow its forces post-TLJ (link). However, in light of Oscar Isaac’s comments about the Resistance being a smaller, underdog guerilla force, I’ve also started thinking about how the Resistance could win without being a huge military force like the Rebellion was. According te Oscar:
“[The Resistance] are guerrilla fighters, adhering closer to something like the Revolutionary War fighters or even the guerrillas in Cuba with Che and Fidel and all these guys living in the mountains, coming down to do some attacks, and going back and trying to hide from the ’empire’ of the United States. It’s that kind of ragged at this point.”
Episode IX could still show the Resistance growing, of course; Oscar could be talking about an early stage in the movie, since he says “at this point.” However, if the Resistance is a much-outnumbered guerrilla force for most of Episode IX, could they still win?
A depressing possibility under the small-Resistance scenario, of course, is that the Resistance is defeated or reaches a ceasefire with the FO so that both sides retreat to their own regions of space in preparation for farther movies and series. I’ll rule that out for the moment, though, because it would be a rehash of the TLJ ending and is not a real ending to the saga at all. Besides, this entire situation with the FO has its roots a compromise with the Empire remnants and I highly doubt it’s a good idea to let that history repeat again.
Another point is that Oscar referenced victorious guerrilla fighters, the
Continental Army and Castro’s 26th of July Movement, each of which won their wars and
successfully took power. (What they did with the power afterward is
another matter. This is not meant to be an endorsement of either the U.S.’s or Cuba’s political systems so hold off on the anons please.)
If we leave out the unsatisfactory defeat/ceasefire ending and assume the Resistance stays small, there may still be paths to victory. To that end let’s examine Oscar’s historical parallels.
The British Empire lost to the Continentials because of lack of political will (many in Britain did not believe war was a solution at all), lack of command skill and command line coherence, lack of supplies in hostile territory, the failure of expected Loyalist support to materialize, and the Continentals gaining useful allies like France and Spain. The Cuban government under Batista lost because his commanders made crucial mistakes, he couldn’t get necessary arms and parts for his military due to a U.S. embargo, and he lost both United States and domestic support.
These factors can be boiled down to four things: Unity, supplies, support, and allies. If the FO is disunited and its command are at each other’s throats or simply failing to coordinate; if it loses crucial sources of supplies and has its supply lines disrupted; and if the populations of the occupied territories rise up against it while the Resistance gains allies, there is a chance for even a small Resistance to prevail.
For one it gives an alternative type of conflict, or at least how the conflict plays out, to the last two trilogies.
Another is that this gives Rose a place and time to shine as a mechanic. Who better in the Resistance to know where they should strike and how? She never got to show off her abilities in TLJ with this she has a great chance.
Finally there’s the possibility that the end game battle will be fairly small. As in, not a whole lot people involved. And I know there are people who hate that idea, but to me the battles in the Star Wars movies that kept me engrossed had nothing to do with how much pew pew was going on.
Think about the climatic battle in RotS? It’s basically two one on one duels: Anakin vs Obi-Wan and Sidious vs Yoda.
Or for that matter the action climax in ESB. Vader vs Luke and Leia, Lando and Chewie’s desperate attempt to first rescue Han and the escape the Empire all the while picking Luke up.
Or TPM. The battle with the Gungans on the plain and all the shenanigans up in space are really distraction from the main plot, Padmé capturing the viceroys. And a lot of emotional payoff is invested in Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs Maul.
Last, but certainly not least, TFA. Yes we have pew pew up in atmosphere above SKB and yes we want Poe and Red and Blue squadron to blow it up. But where is our attention and emotional investment? Down on the ground, with Finn, Han, Chewie and Rey. In the end all the pew pew up there feels like a distraction from the “actual” battle.
So small scale final conflict does not to me mean lack of payoff for the trilogy or IX on its own. Maybe the final battle is an attempt to capture or kill key First Order officers in an attempt to cut off the head of the snake so to speak. If the First Order is already pressed and internal conflict rampant, removing key figures one way or the other could be a method how a fairly small group of people, or number of small groups, could bring down a behemoth like the First Order.
You’re right, supply attacks would be a PERFECT way for Rose to shine! She’s built a crucial new technology herself and has experience with supply runs. I really hate how she was reduced to searching for a dude hacker in TLJ and then ending up with a different dude hacker. From TLJ you would never know that she was a brilliant mechanic and inventor who had supervised a whole team of bomber flight engineers to implement the technology she built. Having her cause chaos in the FO by cutting off its supply lines with maximum effect would go a long way toward doing her character more justice. Put your fist through the FO the right way, girl.
Yes, the climactic last battles in the SW movies have always been personal, even intimate. Even the destruction of the Death Star in ANH came down to Luke, his connection to the Force through Obi-Wan’s ghost, Vader trying to shoot Luke down, and Han coming through for a last-minute assist. One hero, the hero’s mentor, the hero’s implacable shadow, and the triumphant culmination of the friend’s character arc.
In fact, the operations to ultimately take down the FO as I outlined in the op are so vast they’d be a better subject of a between-movies TV series along the lines of The Clone Wars. (I wonder what this war against the FO would be called? The Shadow War? The Force War? The Star War?) Episode IX can show the final results, with a little exposition on how they got there, and then have our core group of heroes finish things off. It’s the Star Wars way.
I have talked before about how the Resistance could still grow its forces post-TLJ (link). However, in light of Oscar Isaac’s comments about the Resistance being a smaller, underdog guerilla force, I’ve also started thinking about how the Resistance could win without being a huge military force like the Rebellion was. According te Oscar:
“[The Resistance] are guerrilla fighters, adhering closer to something like the Revolutionary War fighters or even the guerrillas in Cuba with Che and Fidel and all these guys living in the mountains, coming down to do some attacks, and going back and trying to hide from the ’empire’ of the United States. It’s that kind of ragged at this point.”
Episode IX could still show the Resistance growing, of course; Oscar could be talking about an early stage in the movie, since he says “at this point.” However, if the Resistance is a much-outnumbered guerrilla force for most of Episode IX, could they still win?
A depressing possibility under the small-Resistance scenario, of course, is that the Resistance is defeated or reaches a ceasefire with the FO so that both sides retreat to their own regions of space in preparation for farther movies and series. I’ll rule that out for the moment, though, because it would be a rehash of the TLJ ending and is not a real ending to the saga at all. Besides, this entire situation with the FO has its roots a compromise with the Empire remnants and I highly doubt it’s a good idea to let that history repeat again.
Another point is that Oscar referenced victorious guerrilla fighters, the
Continental Army and Castro’s 26th of July Movement, each of which won their wars and
successfully took power. (What they did with the power afterward is
another matter. This is not meant to be an endorsement of either the U.S.’s or Cuba’s political systems so hold off on the anons please.)
If we leave out the unsatisfactory defeat/ceasefire ending and assume the Resistance stays small, there may still be paths to victory. To that end let’s examine Oscar’s historical parallels.
The British Empire lost to the Continentials because of lack of political will (many in Britain did not believe war was a solution at all), lack of command skill and command line coherence, lack of supplies in hostile territory, the failure of expected Loyalist support to materialize, and the Continentals gaining useful allies like France and Spain. The Cuban government under Batista lost because his commanders made crucial mistakes, he couldn’t get necessary arms and parts for his military due to a U.S. embargo, and he lost both United States and domestic support.
These factors can be boiled down to four things: Unity, supplies, support, and allies. If the FO is disunited and its command are at each other’s throats or simply failing to coordinate; if it loses crucial sources of supplies and has its supply lines disrupted; and if the populations of the occupied territories rise up against it while the Resistance gains allies, there is a chance for even a small Resistance to prevail.
The first part, dissension in the FO command, has been cooking for the past two movies and has only grown worse with Ren’s takeover of the FO. Hux and Ren were just barely kept from each other’s throats by Snoke’s oppressive presence, and with Snoke gone we have seen that Hux is willing to outright murder Ren if he can get away with it–though Domhnall was the one who had the sense to see this, not RJ–while Ren has no compunctions about throwing his General around like a rag doll.
What’s more, the Poe Dameron comics show that dissension in the ranks is a far broader problem than just the aforementioned two members of the top brass. Agent Terex, whereever he is now, did not like or respect Hux, Ren, or Phasma. Colonel Barrut, the commander of the fleet attacking Grail City, did not even believe that Snoke was dead–and it’s very interesting that she was lied to, as probably was most of the FO command. If Ren is so insecure in his position that he has to lie to keep the order, what’s going to happen when the truth inevitably gets out, in drips and then in a flood?
Some, including @themandalorianwolf if I recall correctly, have speculated that there will be an actual civil war between the First Order leadership post-TLJ and it seems plausible given the vacuum in power created by Snoke’s death. The fake news seems to be Kylo Ren and perhaps Hux’s desperate effort to delay the onset of that chaos for as long as possible.
Perhaps the Resistance could actively help along the already-brewing dissension in the FO command. I have speculated that the Knights of Ren will be returning to the big screen to slaughter and terrorize any challengers to their Master’s throne, and perhaps Finn and Rey could take out the Knights to hinder this attempt to stabilize Ren’s rule. More mundanely, the Resistance could disrupt the FO’s communications and coordination.
Second, supplies: This should be one of the first things any guerrilla force goes for and this action should be happening at the very least in the background, perhaps in a between-movies comic or television series. In fact, in the Continental War there was a whole guerrilla campaign known as the Forage War that was dedicated to removing sources of British supplies and harassing foraging parties.
In fact, I find it interesting that Oscar invoked the Continental Army at all as an example of guerrilla warfare, because the Continental Army was not by and large a guerrilla force and many of its engagements with the British were conventional battles. The Forage War on the other hand was a prime example of that Army’s use of irregular forces and scouting parties to harass and weaken the British military.
In addition to the importance of supplies in real life warfare, the recent Star Wars movies and books have seen an increasing emphasis on supplies as a plot point. There was a series of Poe Dameron comic issues that focused on Black Squadron attempt to secure a tanker of fuel for the Resistance, and the Solo movie had fuel as a central plot point. Cobalt Squadron, a junior novelization starring Rose Tico, revolves around a series of supply runs to a planet that has risen up against the First Order.
While the above examples consisted of the Resistance/Rebellion or their allies securing and defending their supplies, this was because the Resistance/Rebellion were in a defensive position at those times. The Resistance, in particular, was a covert force for most of its existence up to The Force Awakens that was outright forbidden to combat the First Order directly. Now that they are at “all-out war,” to quote John Boyega, there is no reason supplies cannot be a point of offense as well as defense for the Resistance.
The Resistance striking at the First Order’s supplies fits quite nicely into the narrative of a guerrilla force that is not ready for full-scale conflicts with the enemy yet, and gives it some of the best bang for its early efforts. Certainly, now that the First Order has taken over the galaxy its supply lines will be stretched in a complex web of logistics across hostile or empty territory, making its transports and supply stations tempting targets. One less Walker shipped to the front lines, one less tanker of fuel for their troop transports, one fewer working blaster in the hands of a Stormtrooper, one TIE fighter with a wonky navigational array that cannot be replaced–any and all of these translate into lives saved from the First Order. Not just Resistance lives either, but those of their allies and of populations under FO occupation.
Disrupted supply lines would also have a profound effect on the effectiveness and morale of the Stormtroopers in particular. As the rank and file they are likely to be hardest hit in the event of deprivation, most immediately in terms of food but also weapons, equipment, and medicine. If the First Order cannot fulfill its most basic function of keeping its armed forces fed and in fighting shape, the leadership of Supreme Leader Kylo Ren may lose all credibility in the eyes of the Troopers.
Low morale and lack of trust in the leadership, in turn, may make a Stormtrooper rebellion likelier to happen. I know food and supplies are a more mundane spark for a Trooper uprising than the general fandom narrative of a courageous fight for freedom, but I have never believed for a moment that a majority of the uprising, if it happens, would be made up of morally upstanding individuals like Finn. Even aside from the lifelong conditioning the Stormtroopers received, the majority of people in general are not heroes. Often the struggle for freedom is made up of baser materials like discontent and sheer desperation. Such a turn of events would make any uprising all the more realistic, not to mention morally complex.
If at all possible, of course, the First Order will try to displace any supply shortfalls onto local populations under its occupation. What will the policies of the First Order, not known for humane and sustainable governance even at the best of times, look like in wartime and under exigency? We just may find out. For that let’s turn to the third of the four pillars upholding the First Order’s war efforts, support.
In terms of political support for the First Order or lack thereof, we saw with Finn and Rose how much people suffer under the their rule even in peacetime. As discussed above, it is likely that the FO leadership will respond with even harsher policies to the war and the Resistance’s efforts. Kylo Ren’s violent temper, impetuous sense of entitlement, and total incompetence will probably not help matters at all.
What’s more, the FO will now be extending its forces over a much broader swathe of the galaxy containing more populations than before. It doesn’t take an expert to see what it means when a greater numbers of angrier people are pitted against the same number of soldiers who themselves may be ill-equipped, sick, and hungry. Not only could occupying forces in key systems lose under this scenario, but if the soldiers are angry at the same people as the populace we might even see them teaming up.
Any systems the FO loses, in turn, are likely to mean losses of key supply sources and routes. Even if the FO does not outright lose control of a system, its efforts to stamp out unrest will mean more resources and attention diverted, giving the Resistance more opportunity to cause havoc elsewhere or to grow its own operations. For strategic as well as moral reasons, therefore, the Resistance would be wise to lend its support to key popular uprisings against the First Order. Perhaps we were seeing this kind of teamwork in action with the leaked set pictures featuring Finn, Poe, and unknown characters.
From here we segue into the final element of a possible small Resistance victory, allies. Any systems that repel or overthrow First Order control, of course, could be valuable allies for the Resistance. We saw an example of this happen at the end of the Poe Dameron comics, with Black Squadron helping a city besieged by the First Order and gaining a Resistance ally for their efforts. Zay and Shriv at the end of the Battlefront 2 DLC were also dispatched to the Outer Rim to contact potential allies, and @opisrussianonmain has speculated that one of the allies they bring in might be Lando, an old friend of Shriv’s.
The thing is, gaining allies and the Resistance staying a small guerrilla force at the core are not mutually exclusive developments. Our basic template for military conflicts in Star Wars is Empire vs. Rebellion, two huge fleets going head to head, although there were still plenty of special ops and guerrilla missions going on. What if things look a little different this time around? The Resistance’s allies could be much like France to the Continental Army (again, I do not support absolute monarchy etc. etc.), providing money and matériel while engaging their common enemy in different battlefields for the most part. It wasn’t until late in the Revolutionary War that France actively coordinated military operations with the North American forces, or instance.
We watched Black Squadron winning over allies at a distance in the Poe comics, in fact. When Black Squadron saved Grail City against the First Order, there was no talk of the city’s military setting out with Black Squadron in an impressive armada to join the Resistance. Instead, their leader promised to keep pushing back against the First Order and to give other aid when requested.
In fact, given the Resistance’s capabilities and the disposition of the First Order, it makes a lot more sense for allies to stay put where they are than to puff up the Resistance’s main forces. The Resistance doesn’t have the capacity to provision a large fleet, and the First Order is spread all over the galaxy. At the present stage the Resistance’s allies would do better defending their own homes against their common enemy slashing at its many tentacles rather than try to lop off its head before they’re ready. Any of the possible allies I mentioned in my “all-out war” meta (link) could resist the First Order from home and help that way.
In having allies or enemies-of-their-enemies positioned throughout the galaxy while keeping the core forces small and lean–though hopefully more than the dozen left at the end of TLJ–the Resistance would also avoid its adversary’s weakness of needing long and vulnerable supply lines. Being small enough to carry their own supplies and having friendly locals to buy from would make the Resistance hard to catch or starve out. And if the time does come for a fleet-to-fleet showdown and the groundwork is laid for large-scale operations, the Resistance could muster a fleet from its allies and go head to head with the adversary.
Another possibility I find intriguing is that of “allies” who fight not with the Resistance but against the First Order, much like Spain in the American Revolutionary War. There could be star systems or former Stormtrooper units that do not necessarily trust or work with the Resistance but count the First Order as their sworn enemy. These groups would still be a big help distracting the First Order as long as they do not work at cross-purposes with the Resistance, and convincing them to direct their efforts in a helpful way could be an adventure of itself.
In conclusion, Episode IX could have a small core Resistance force for all or most of its run and it could still plausibly win if it keeps to these four points: Destroy their enemies’ already wobbly command unity, attack their supplies, erode their base of support, and gain allies to fight with. It’s happened in our universe, why not in a galaxy far far away?
Star Wars: Episode IX Remote Film Location In Jordan, Pictures And Descriptions.
A user on the Reddit Star Wars Leaks site has posted some amazing pictures of what looks to be a remote location film set for Star Wars: Episode IX. The user, YenaMagana also posted a detailed account of what he saw to match the wonderful visuals. The authenticity of this is going to be hard to corroborate but, damn if this doesn’t look authentic. There were rumors that Jordan could possibly be a remote site for the last chapter of our saga, as it has been used before. More recently for Rogue One: A Star Wars Story. The description of YenaMagana’s account is the following:
So, I was driving through Wadi Rum, Jordan (I live in Jordan) for some nice desert camping, and I happened to stumble across a big tent city with some props. Wadi Rum is a large desert nature preserve in southern Jordan. A brief overview of what we saw:
Saw several rigs that were supposed to be some sort of landspeeders (one looked a lot like Rey’s orange creamsicle speeder); these whizzed by rather quickly and I was not able to get a good photo.
Pretty sure we saw Daisy Ridley (or perhaps another actress) getting a guided tour on a camel, with a heavy police escort.
Drove past the film set you see in the photo album. There were all sorts of tents, a lot of cut-outs of alien figures (looked a lot like Neimoidians), and pylon-sort of things. Looked like Jakku.
There is a big tent city with trailers, large MSU-style tents, and shipping containers. I am guessing this is where they construct a lot of the props, etc.
While trying to leave Wadi Rum the next day, were told to take a different path as they were filming in a certain area using a lot of pyrotechnics (!!!).
I won’t share the exact location (Wadi Rum is a big place), but it will be interesting to see Wadi Rum in the finished product. Wadi Rum is used to film a lot of movies, including “Lawrence of Arabia”, “The Martian”, and “Rogue One” (a lot of the establishing shots of Jedha were filmed there).
I would also like to take the opportunity to plug desert excursions in Wadi Rum; a really nice place with stunning scenery.
One of the greatest thrills in covering the production of these films is the remote location shoots. The energy in the air, the paparazzi photos and the shots of the production from all kinds of sources. From TMZ to regular folks like YenaMagana. The question for today’s reveal is this, is Rey heading back home to Jakku or is she venturing to Jedha?
What if the title of Episode IX were “Triumph of the Order?” People can spend the time between now and the release date going nuts over whether it means the First Order, the Jedi Order, or something else entirely.
Yeah it’s worryingly possible. The titles for the third movies of both preceding trilogies told us who won, or at least who made a decisive move. “(Decisive action) of the (Faction)” would be in keeping with that format, while making the faction something ambiguous like “Order” would keep the balance of the titles from going one way or another. Also “Triumph of the X” is yikes-inducingly Naziesque now that I think about it, to say nothing of the “Order” part in-universe.
Come to think of it something like “Balance of the Force” is another possible title for the above reasons–outcome descriptive, yet neutral/ambiguous–and almost as nailbiting. It’ll bait the reylows to hell, that’s for sure 😂
I mean I hold out hope it could be awesome, like “Liberation of Warriors,” “Uprising,” or if JJ really wants to go balls out, some variation of “Exodus” or “Jubilee”–but lbr these are highly unlikely.
What if the title of Episode IX were “Triumph of the Order?” People can spend the time between now and the release date going nuts over whether it means the First Order, the Jedi Order, or something else entirely.
There should absolutely be some mysterious reason why Rey can’t kill Kylo. She can knock him out, defeat him for the moment but she can’t end him. And the only one who can should be Finn. and NO it’s not bc Rey’s in love with Kylo, you nasties, it should all be some crazy Force related mumbo jumbo!
Rey’s the Zuko in this narrative, at least in that narrow sense–Zuko passed on a clear chance to kill his asshole father Luke Ozai, saying that was Aang’s job as the Avatar. Rey herself in the novelization knew that it was not the will of the Force that she kill Kylo Ren (and no, she felt nothing for him lol). It would be cool if Finn is the Aang in this scenario who has the legitimacy and the will of the Force behind him to end Kylo Ren–or better yet, pull an actual Aang and strip the asshole of his Force powers. Remember how I keep raving about how Finn might be Force immune? Imagine if he could turn that on its head and take away another Force user’s powers…
While I want a Stormtrooper Rebellion, it’s basically became the go to sole character arc for Finn for people who don’t really put him in the greater scope of things. I want to see Kylo and Finn meet again because they are clear foils to each other. They’re journey began in TFA and it should end IX.
As for Rey, even if Kylo is her cousin, the forced foil TLJ was trying to push just didn’t seem organic. I want Rey on the action, but watching her fight Kylo for the 3rd movie in a row isn’t interesting just because we’ve already seen multiple times that she’s stronger. I hope JJ knows what to do with her.
The problem with Rey is that unlike Finn, she never followed the basic writing elements of the hero’s journey in the first place and by TLJ Johnson just used her as a plot device. Finn wasn’t utilized in TLJ, but that was also his saving grace. You can’t break what you don’t use.
If anything, I think a Finn and Rey vs Kylo and KOR fight would look cool, but JJ will have to put some type of emotion on it to prevent throne room scene part 2.
This is my wish now: Finn and Rey vs. Kylo and the KOR but us getting to know the KOR beforehand. But Finn vs. Kylo and Rey and Luke fighting Snoke sounds like a cool idea too. Anything but a duel where Rey and Kylo are alone.
I really hope the KOR are actually developed in IX and not just villain canon fodder like the twirling lobsters.
This is really the last chance the characters have to define themselves.
In conjunction with your idea that the FO will be at civil war and mine that the KoR will be acting as enforcers to crush internal dissent–what if Finn and Rey and the others’ early missions involve taking out the KoR so that discontented factions of the FO can rebel?
It still bothers me that Kylo Ren never used the Force against Finn. I mean, we’re talking about the guy who’s been shown doing this
and this
and this
also this
and so much more to his enemies and even people who just kind of annoyed him in the moment. The dude has oodles of Force power and is not at all shy about throwing it around. Other Force users are not immune, as shown with Rey who is even more powerful than he is.
So why, in his fight against Finn at the end of TFA, did Ren never even try to use the Force? Finn went running to an unconscious Rey after Ren knocked her out. Finn had even thrown his blaster aside, not that blasters work against Ren as Poe found out at the start of the movie. Why didn’t Ren throw Finn against a tree, too, or lift him into the air and choke him? That’s more like the guy’s usual MO.
Instead Ren not only dueled Finn but even resorted to punching him after disarming him, which had viewers commenting that his animosity against Finn seemed very raw and personal. It is true that Ren seems to have a personal beef against Finn (link), but again, the new Supreme Leader of the First Order has never been hesitant to use Force power against people regardless of how well he knew them or how strongly he felt about them. He revels in making people, from total strangers to hated rivals, helpless with his power. So why not Finn?
My hypothesis is that there’s another layer to Ren’s animosity against Finn beyond the usually-discussed ones of Finn defecting and making the opposite choices he did, and Ren’s hatred being the manifestation of his regrets. That’s a valid point and I have argued it myself (link), but what if there’s something more immediate and visceral going on?
Let’s go back to that moment in the village near the beginning of TFA, when Ren stared for a long moment at Finn before he turned away. He then unfreezes Poe’s blaster beam to strike a pole Finn was standing near, startling him and showering him with sparks.
This is an amazing theory that would add a whole new layer to the lore. It fits perfectly with what we saw in TFA. The only time (iirc) in TLJ Finn was in a Force scene was when Rey moved the boulders. She wasn’t using it on him, of course. He was able to run through it though. 🤔
Thank you! And speaking of that scene, this part where the rocks are moving out of Finn’s way is odd when I look at it now:
Some have said Finn was using the Force to move them out of his way, and others have said Rey cleared them herself. While I love the former theory, I don’t think the movement of the rocks fits either version of events.
For one thing, Force telekinesis has never looked like that as far as I know. Even extremely powerful Force users like Yoda or Kylo Ren have had to reach out, both with the Force and physically, and concentrate in order to move heavy objects.
It’s true Snoke was able to move Rey around quite a bit without hand-reaching, and Kylo Ren had to move Anakin’s lightsaber without reaching out because he was disguising his intentions. But when the effort became strenuous and stealth was no longer needed, as when Kylo Ren strove with Rey for control of the lightsaber, he was right back to physical reaching.
So if this was Finn moving the rocks, then he was doing something unprecedented as a Force user, particularly a first-time user moving heavy objects. He’s putting in less effort and focus than experienced Jedi Masters and moving the rocks practically unconsciously.
Now while I would love this to be true, the movement of the rocks also doesn’t look right for a Force push. Force-pushed or pulled objects tend to move with velocity matching their mass. So a small object like a lightsaber can zip through the air with a Force push or pull, while large and heavy objects pushed or pulled against gravity move more ponderously. These rocks around Finn fly like small objects rather than the large and heavy ones they are. It’s been pointed out that they move in tandem with Finn’s own movements–again, not how Force push has been shown to work at all.
For the same reasons it doesn’t look like Rey was moving the rocks either. On the first point, focus, her concentration was on holding the rocks in the air in a floaty way, not throwing them around in a pushy way. Her hand stayed in the same position throughout until she dropped it on seeing Finn and the Resistance, and she didn’t show the kind of physical movement that would indicate she was clearing away only part of the rocks for Finn and the others. The second point of velocity holds as true for her as it does for Finn–the rocks move too quickly compared to their mass, even setting aside the difficulty of doing this while she’s focused on keeping most of them in the air.
And in fact, when Rey does break concentration and lower her hand the Force telekinesis effect is gone and the rocks all fall, showing that she did in fact need the focus aided by hand movement to keep them in the air. The emotion on her face, the little sob as she starts toward Finn, the way she walks like she’s dreaming oh my heart
So a fully plausible interpretation of this scene is that neither Finn nor Rey was moving the rocks, at least not consciously. Know what the movement of the rocks is consistent with, though? If they were being repelled by something–like a Force-resistant field around Finn, maybe? That would explain why it didn’t take any effort or concentration on Finn’s part, and why the rocks were moving in time to Finn and away from him.
L.J.'s Obsessions 