Tag: speculation

Is Finn immune to the Force?

lj-writes:

It still bothers me that Kylo Ren never used the Force against Finn. I mean, we’re talking about the guy who’s been shown doing this

image

and this

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and this

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also this

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and so much more to his enemies and even people who just kind of annoyed him in the moment. The dude has oodles of Force power and is not at all shy about throwing it around. Other Force users are not immune, as shown with Rey who is even more powerful than he is.

So why, in his fight against Finn at the end of TFA, did Ren never even try to use the Force? Finn went running to an unconscious Rey after Ren knocked her out. Finn had even thrown his blaster aside, not that blasters work against Ren as Poe found out at the start of the movie. Why didn’t Ren throw Finn against a tree, too, or lift him into the air and choke him? That’s more like the guy’s usual MO.

Instead Ren not only dueled Finn but even resorted to punching him after disarming him, which had viewers commenting that his animosity against Finn seemed very raw and personal. It is true that Ren seems to have a personal beef against Finn (link), but again, the new Supreme Leader of the First Order has never been hesitant to use Force power against people regardless of how well he knew them or how strongly he felt about them. He revels in making people, from total strangers to hated rivals, helpless with his power. So why not Finn?

My hypothesis is that there’s another layer to Ren’s animosity against Finn beyond the usually-discussed ones of Finn defecting and making the opposite choices he did, and Ren’s hatred being the manifestation of his regrets. That’s a valid point and I have argued it myself (link), but what if there’s something more immediate and visceral going on?

Let’s go back to that moment in the village near the beginning of TFA, when Ren stared for a long moment at Finn before he turned away. He then unfreezes Poe’s blaster beam to strike a pole Finn was standing near, startling him and showering him with sparks.

Keep reading

Another thought came to me in relation to this theory. Didn’t John say that the massacre of Tuanul wasn’t enough for Finn to break his conditioning and bolt? What if this encounter with Ren was enough to do it? If that staring match happened as I theorize Finn would have had the additional kick of raw terror, both for Ren’s rage and what might be awakening in himself. If Finn felt Ren trying to read his surface emotions and also felt the effort fail, he would have known from Ren’s displeasure afterward that he was a goner if he stayed.

Come to think of it, if Finn is Force-immune (or a wound in the Force, as @themandalorianwolf theorizes) that would also explain how his many doubts flew entirely under the radar in an organization led by Force users. His inner turmoil would have been invisible to Force senses, and it wasn’t until Kylo Ren focused specifically on this particular Trooper that the truth came out.

themandalorianwolf:

I think the best plot and story for Episode IX would be for the First Order to be going through a civil war due to the power vacuum that was created after the death of Snoke.

A compelling and interesting conflict would be that while the resistance is trying to build a new army, the F0, with significant more forces due to now being the dominant power, is struggling to stay unified because of the imperials who don’t want to follow Hux and Kylo. Both characters are equally hated by imperials and troopers, though for different reasons, and one of the things keeping the FO unified was Hux and Kylo’s melted sugar daddy, but now that he’s dead there is nothing stopping I Civil War because of power struggles.

In the final issue the Poe Dameron comic we see just how against the Imperials are with the idea of Hux being the leader, and they don’t even factor in Kylo as an option. The FO was never an organization united, and I think if JJ Abrams wants to connect this trilogy when it is so disconnected, A great story elements would be showing the realistic consequences of Snoke’s death.

We saw the Republic at war in the prequels, we saw the Sith empire fight the Jedi in the old republic, and we saw galactic civil war in the OT, but we have never seen imperials fight imperials. At least not on the big screen: I think I could be an interesting story for IX.

I’d love this, but what would Hux’s role be? We saw what happened when he stood up to KR, so it seems unlikely he’d be in open revolt. If we see the Assholes of Ren in IX they’ll likely be acting as enforcers to crush not only Hux but any kind of dissent. Under these circumstances I think slowly mounting discontent with Ren’s incompetence and dictatorial style is likelier, with the Stormtroopers hardest hit at the bottom of the military rung. This pressure could culminate in factional war and possibly a Stormtrooper uprising the moment the Supreme Asshat shows weakness. Let soldiers go hungry and fail to convince them there’s any point to their deaths, and they’ll decide you’re the enemy.

themandalorianwolf:

I’ve been seeing a lot of people talk about a time skip for Episode IX, and interestingly enough, both sides keep settling on 6-8 months.

Personally, I hope not.

The ST already feels like weekend at Bernie’s, and it’s not longer feeling like the epic episodic stories, and more like Johnson’s episode of the BB “The Fly”. Glorified filler.

The OT had 4 years pass during it.

The PT had 13 years pass during it.

Even anthology movies like R1 and Solo had a long passage of time.

Narratively speaking, a longer time skip, a few years for example, leaves Lucasfilm more room for stories between the jump, world building, and development for the ST characters, and building up both factions in the War.

Leia building up her army for the New Republic and gather allies for the Resistance, and Benny Boy consolidating his position as leader due to power vacuum undoubtably caused by Snoke’s death.

The only other option I could think for a short time skip would be if IX is a 2nd part movie or if IX is the Attack of the Clones of this mess of a ST and Star Wars will turn into and bulging movie is covering the 2nd galactic civil war.

Otherwise, the ST is gonna span only a couple months and be known as just the shittiest year ever.

I think a long time skip can work with the guerilla warfare aspect that Oscar discussed. Leia has outright said in the latest Poe Dameron comic that the Resistance is down to a dozen people on the Millennium Falcon. The Resistance was never that big in the first place, nothing like the Rebellion at its peak, and was, let’s be real, functionally wiped out in TLJ. They don’t just need to rebuild, they need to build from scratch a force that has a snowball’s chance in hell against the First Order. That’s not going to be easy work, and we may be watching in IX at least the tail end of their efforts to build an anti-FO coalition. That would make for some really fun between-movies material too in the mode of The Clone Wars.

diversehighfantasy:

disturbanceinthefrost:

So Finn is Force sensitive right? Right. But it still needs to be confirmed/revealed in 9. How?

I’ve been thinking it might be kinda cool if they did a callback to how Luke heard Obi Wan telling him to use the Force during the Death Star run but this time with Luke talking to Finn.

I’m just spit balling here but from the leaked pics we know that Finn, Poe and Chewie go somewhere in the Falcon.  There’s no way to know when in the movie those scenes are going to be but for the sake of this speculation I’m going to assume (based on nothing, lol) that they are close to the beginning.  So Finn, Poe and Chewie are in the Falcon on their way to whatever planet we see them on in the pics.  On their way there they fall under attack. Poe and Chewie fly the ship while Finn mans he gun since, as we saw in TFA, he’s an ace gunner. The Falcon takes a hit that knocks out the targeting thingy on his gun.  Finn fires sans targeting thing and misses, he starts to panic a bit as they are losing shields and won’t be able to take many more hits. Then all of a sudden Finn hears a calm voice: “breathe, just breathe….now use the Force Finn”.  He does and destroys the last target in one shot.  

Anyway…obviously this is complete speculation. I have no idea how FS Finn is going to be revealed in 9. It had just better happen early on and Finn better actually get to use the Force in 9.  

This would be amazing and I think Mark Hamill, being one of John/Finn’s biggest supporters, would be into it.

Via Vanity Fair,

In The Last Jedi, Boyega says, Finn’s reasonable facility with the saber is not further explicated. “But you never know,” he says. “I talk to Mark Hamill sometimes and he tells me stories about how he wasn’t told about the ‘Darth Vader is his father’ situation until he got on set.

I always felt like Mark was trying to reassure John that he could still be FS. They both seemed disappointed that they didn’t get to share screen time in TLJ. But since that’s done and can’t be changed (unless JJ retcons, which I would be equally cool with), it would make it even more powerful if Luke spoke to Finn through the Force in EpIX.

Finn’s Parentage Theories: Legends Edition

Clockwise from upper-middle-right.

Luke Skywalker and Lando Calrissian

Luke and Lando raise a child together, either adopted or through a surrogate. When Kylo destroys the temple, Luke and Lando are devastated when they think their child is killed in the fire. However, all children are brainwashed and recruited by the First Order.

Pros: Uses a fan-favorite ship from Legends, largely thanks to the Marvel Comics. Would give Luke and Lando both a temporary happy ending and a good reason to resign to depression for a while. The timeline would add up and it would give potentially sweet scenes for Finn, Lando, and Luke in Episode IX.

Cons: Would be really depressing. Unlikely for Disney to have an onscreen gay relationship not played for laughs or cheap diversity credit. Would cause some people to view it as Skywalker=naturally good, even though Finn wouldn’t be his biological son.

Nick Rostu

A Force-sensitive warrior from Haruun Kal, Nick Rostu was young at the end of the Clone Wars, but seemed to be about Luke’s age when they met. Regardless, in this universe, Knights of Ren took children while posing as Jedi Knights. Rostu, remembering his friends Mace and Depa, let them, believing their lies that it was for medical purposes. The adults were knocked out, and the Force-sensitive children were stolen to make an elite squad of stormtroopers.

Pros: Allows a Star Wars culture only seen in books to join the screens. Would allow Finn to have a big, loving community to return to as well. Nick’s fighting style is also unique, being a sniper trickster.

Cons: Would come out of nowhere for fans outside of the EU. The timeline wouldn’t add up well. A white director could easily default on stereotypes when designing a culture of jungle-dwellers.

Qu Rahn

Qu Rahn was a young survivor of Order 66, and lived into the early years of the New Republic. With a bit of time displacement, we could change his noble end to be at the hand of Snoke, and his defense of Finn is similar to his defense of Kyle Katarn.

Pros: Would fit with Finn being based off from Kyle Katarn. Adds a connection to one of the most popular EU stories. Would be a way for Finn to get his own lightsaber.

Cons: Could anger Dark Forces fans. Wouldn’t allow closure for Finn’s arc.

Giddean Danu

As one of the signers of the Delegation of 2000, and a founder of the Rebellion, perhaps the Senator of Kuat was imprisoned in a secret Imperial jail, along with his family. His son and his son’s wife had a child after the death of the Emperor, but the Imperial Remnant led by Rae Sloane kept them in captivity and took all Rebellion children to be First Order grunts.

Pros: Reference to the prequels. Allows a new surge of Resistance allies. Some resemblance between Christopher Kirby and John Boyega. Has ties to the Space-Prince Finn theory.

Cons: Would be a bit of a surprise. It’s unlikely Palpatine would take prisoners from the delegation instead of killing them.

Novoc Vevut

In Legends, Novoc adopted and raised the boy who would go on to marry Boba Fett’s grandfather. This version would be biological father to one of the stolen Mandalorian children that he and the new Mandalore Boba Fett have been seeking. Novoc would also have his adopted son Ghes Orade, who would act like a big brother for Finn.

Pros: Similarity to both Mandalorian Finn theory and LJ-writes-verse Sequel Trilogy. Provide a plot-based excuse to bring in Mandalorians and Boba Fett. Would be suitably epic without contradicting previous material.

Cons: Always have to deal with the “Boba should be dead” crowd. Morrison and Logan are both a bit too young to play old Boba (but makeup would fix that). Would raise the question of “where were these guys in the last two movies?”

Barney

One of Luke’s earliest Jedi apprentices, despite not having any real demonstrable Force powers, Barney is a humble, kind man from Marvel comics. He lived on Belderone, a world where AT-AT’s were built, making it a target for First Order raiders. After his home was raided, he has been working any job to pursue any lead as to where his son might be.

Pros: Barney is both sweet and determined, and would be a likable addition. Would also be poor enough to explain a lack of Galactic presence in previous films. Also provide a cute moment for Rey and Finn when she talks about living in an AT-AT, and Finn’s dad makes an instant connection.

Cons: Is named Barney, which is reminiscent of a certain purple dinosaur. Might not reasonably find Finn on his own power. Likable but potentially devoid of conflict once he reunites with his son.

Akanah Norand Goss Pell

Akanah was an ex of Luke’s, and a member of the Fallanassi, a religious organization that thought of the Force as a river known as the White Current, flowing and rippling. Akanah was absorbed into the entity Abeloth, aka Mother of Mortis, and died. However, what if when Abeloth was defeated, she and her avatars transferred to a different timeline rather than a different time period? Akanah, revived, and driven mad by the process, is unable to keep her newborn son in safety.

Pros: Bridge the old and new timelines. Provide a set-up for a potentially grand tenth movie. Add some mystery to an otherwise straightforward saga.

Cons: Somewhat depressing. Akanah would be a bit too old to have a child (but it is sci-fi). Would derail the main conflict of the sequel trilogy.

Katya M’buele

Katya was a friend of Han’s before the Battle of Yavin. In Legends, she died helping Luke fight demons in Marvel’s comics, but this version could live past the battle and become a Rebel Hero like Kes and Shara. She would be in the Resistance, as a slightly older woman, running smuggling and transport operations, always looking for her son that went missing at a young age.

Pros: Ties to the Resistance strengthened. Could appear as a young woman in a Solo sequel. Would not derail the conflict.

Cons: Underwhelming reveal. Ultimately too serendipitous to happen naturally (but there is the Force.) Not a very popular character.

Those are just some theories to rebut the idea that nobody’s thinking of some potential parentages for Finn! I might do a canon one, if this goes over well. My favorite is Luke/Lando, but I think Novoc would make for the best story. (Moth)

Finn’s birth name is something I didn’t know I needed

lj-writes:

It’s what all Finn stans need. Tbh it wouldn’t hurt that I’d be able to search for him without getting Adventure Time or The 100.

@jewishcomeradebot I would die if his birth name were Sam or, though highly unlikely, Moses. A last name, which we would probably get if we get his birth name, would still make him much easier to search anyway. I like the sound of Sam Skywalker!

Luke wasn’t completely wrong to spare Kyle? What. Thanks to TLJ and Johnson, Luke Was A Dick is pretty much the only concrete reason offered by the ST movies as to why Kyle is the way that he is. There’s nothing else. Almost nobody reads the goddamn novels, Snoke abusing Kyle Ben is not a thing with general audience. Luke’s shouldering the whole blame (thank’s sfm, RJ).

jewishcomeradebot:

lj-writes:

It really should take only half a second of critical thinking to realize that Luke couldn’t have made Kylo evil–that Kylo was already consumed by it when Luke looked into his mind. Kylo then slaughtered Luke’s students and took his already-turned friends in what was clearly a premeditated attack. JJ had better make that clear in IX.

I think JJ will. Plus I can see a way he can make it reasonable that neither Luke nor Rey killed him without turning him good or, like Gollum, save the story, detracting from the heroes. (Yes I always hated the ending of LotR, it’s cheap imo.)

Anyway.

Here’s how: Mark likened the whole thing to the theoretical question, “if you could go back in time and kill baby Hitler, would you?”.

But to Jews that was always a nonsense question.

Why? Because it wouldn’t have made one lick of difference, WWII would still have happened, the Holocaust would still have happened. Because Hitler was only one guy, he alone caused NOTHING to happen. The forces that made the Nazis try to exterminate Jews and Romani people, with the applause of most of Europe and the rest of the world, was already moving. It would all have happened anyway. And with someone more competent than Hitler possibly have been much, much worse.

So why didn’t Luke kill Ben? Because he realized that it wouldn’t make a lick of difference to what was going to happen. Heck it’s not even sure that his school and the rest of the students would have survived even if he hadn’t done that lightsaber check next to his nephew. Because Kylo/Ben is just one man. Even if removed, he’d still have his hangers on that could act without him and it looked like was ready to.

And in the longer term, what then? Remove Kylo and what happens? The exact same damn thing. Because Snoke still exists, Hux still exists, Starkiller Base is already being build and will be completed, the whole of the First Order is already on the rise and the Republic will do nothing.

Kylo or no Kylo, it changes nothing, this goes far beyond just one man. Only difference is that Snoke might have found a different apprentice, possibly one who’s more competent and less self-absorbed and arrogant, and everything would then have been so much worse. The story, our story, could have been over before it even started.

And again in TLJ. Even if we take the nonsense reason that the novel supplies for Rey not killing Kylo on face value and JJ decides to go with that.

Again it wouldn’t make any difference. Only change is that someone else, possibly a more competent commander would take the reigns of the First Order. Hux might be a conservative and unimaginative by-the-book commander who’s very bad at dealing with unconventional tactics and innovative strategies, but at least he knows the book. Kylo on the other hand is a lets-antagonize-all-of-Europe-and-then-invade-Russia-in-winter style of commander.

Yes the Force still needs him, because his lack of competence gives the Resistance and the Light side a chance that would be snuffed out with a more competent guy at the helm.

People – and by people I mean goydje – forget that the Nazis were largely incompetent and that neo-Nazis are really no better. What made and makes them so terrifying isn’t that they’re competent, but that the could do what they did because the majority of people in Europe agreed wholeheartedly with their agenda. They only opposed it when they too became a target.

Which is really no different from what has been happening in a Galaxy Far Far Away. On the whole, no one gave a shit about the genocides and general abuses the First Order were committing as long as they themselves were not its target, a lot even supported it. And now everyone has to deal with that.

Am I the only one who liked the LotR climax 😂 Also omg the Hitler comparison! Kylo does remind me of him, especially the dramatization in the 2004 film Untergang. And that’s not a commentary on mental illness; Hitler’s evil was not caused by mental illness (link if anyone wants support for the obvious, some ableism at link). Rather, the behavioral similarities arise from their shared sense of entitlement and their fundamental dishonesty about the world.

You’re right, if Luke had killed Kylo someone else would have been Snoke’s apprentice, likely one of Kylo’s school buddies. And look, no one’s going to convince me Kylo was the sharpest knife in any drawer. I can easily believe, however, that he was the most powerful Force user and the most violent in action and temper. If his interactions with Hux are any indication, Kylo became the ringleader of their group by choking and intimidating the hell out of any dissent. I bet there is or was a far smarter Knight of Ren who was either forced to fall in line or was killed by Kylo. If Luke had killed Kylo that person would have been the Master of the Knights of Ren and a far more dangerous foe.

Worse, Luke would have been vilified as a murderer who killed his young nephew in his sleep while Kylo would have become a junior martyr alongside Vader. The aforementioned smarter Knight would have been savvy enough to effectively use the memory of the hated dead asshole.

If Rey had killed Kylo Ren, Hux would have laughed his ass off to find his job done for him. The FO would have gone away and regrouped, likely with Hux at their head, with Ren again a martyr before he could expose himself very publicly on Crait for the ridiculous flop he was. And Ren will continue to flub and make mistakes and throw embarrassing tantrums because, again, he is self-entitled and dishonest.

Kylo Ren is not a Dark Side villain

I’ve started to think the real conflict in the sequel trilogy might actually not be between the Light and Dark Sides of the Force. The former can be immoral and the latter can be moral, after all.

Pacifism in the face of injustice can be irresponsible cowardice, which is why people have criticized the “That’s how we win” line. Rationality in the face of others’ pain can be dismissive and callous, as we saw with Yoda toward Anakin.

On the other hand, violence to fight unjust violence is moral. That’s the entire foundation of the Rebellion and later Resistance. Anger and pain in the face of oppression, suffering with those who suffer, can be compassion.

No, I now think the real conflict in the sequel trilogy is between elitism and egalitarianism. Think about it. JJ has said that it’s very deliberate that Finn and Rey don’t have last names. We thought it was because they would get big reveals later on (or at least fandom, including me, thought that was true of Rey), but what if he meant something else entirely?

The third main hero in the new movies is Poe, who has a last name and known family but who was at best solidly midle class his whole life. In TLJ we got Rose, whose homeworld was destroyed by the First Order.

These heroes are arrayed against Kylo Ren, a son and nephew of famous heroes and a genetically powerful Force user, who had every advantage growing up and every reason to be the greatest force for good the galaxy had seen.

In a way, being told he is the ultimate good may be the very reason he went so very wrong. Kylo’s actor Adam Driver has said that Kylo has absolute conviction that he is right and that he is an elitist. What would that do to a person’s morality if he is told, implicitly or explicitly, that he can do no wrong by virtue of being a good guy and that he is a cut above everyone else?

Maybe this is why many people are still flummoxed by Kylo Ren’s character and insist that his motivations are lacking, that he is incomprehensible. Our template of the main antagonist in Star Wars is Darth Vader, who was indeed a Dark Side villain whose passion and fear ran amok, motivating him to murder and destruction. That’s why fans read abuse, brainwashing, or the loss of a loved one into Kylo Ren’s character, so we can fit him in the mold of the Dark Side.

But what if there is no Dark Side to be read into his character? What if there was no anger, fear, or loss that motivated him, at least not from legitimate loss or pain?

What if Kylo Ren’s brand of evil is far more mundane: Self-righteousness and arrogance?

In this frame, we can see why Rey misjudged him in The Last Jedi. Like the fandom, she thought Kylo Ren was driven by suffering and could be reached by a hand of friendship and understanding, like Luke had reached Vader. She learned to her surprise that Kylo didn’t hate the father he murdered, which should have made her rethink her approach. Luke himself who knew both Kylo and Vader warned her that she was dangerously misreading the situation.

And when Rey forgave Kylo Ren the pain he caused her, believed in him, stood by his side, and fought by his side–it had no effect on him at all. He had plenty of people believe in him, love him, and even forgive him after he did the unforgivable. That wasn’t what was wrong with him. It wasn’t the Dark Side that made him evil.

Rather he believed he was he ultimate good, that destroying the galaxy and remaking it in his image was the right thing to do. He thought Rey was nothing and had no place in the story because of her unremarkable birth, and only through him could she find meaning and worth.

The real evil in the sequel trilogy isn’t lashing out in hatred and suffering. It’s the belief that you are better than everyone else and are entitled to use others as a means to your ends. Such a belief may lead to suffering, such as rage at the fact that people aren’t treating you with the deference you believe you are due, but in that case you are not evil because you suffer; rather, your suffering stems from your evil belief.

This is the kind of evil the heroes of the sequel trilogy are standing against, and that their backgrounds and choices refute. Finn was kidnapped and enslaved to be a means for the glory of his leaders like Kylo, but he refused the role. He asserted his own individuality and self-worth and wanted to run far away from the First Order before he decided to fight with the Resistance.

Rey grew up in deprivation but never gave up hope, always longing for people who would love her and with whom she had a place. She projected her own pain onto Kylo, and that very nearly became her downfall.

Poe, like Kylo, was raised as one of the “good guys.” Unlike Kylo, however, he always remained open to questioning himself and whether he was doing the right thing. When he saw evidence of First Order activity as a Republic pilot, he didn’t dismiss it because he thought the Republic was always right. Instead he changed his entire life, leaving behind stability and certainty, to do the right thing. When a Stormtrooper offered to rescue him, Poe believed him and became his friend. In TLJ, though the execution was somewhat muddled, he again showed the humility to question his assumptions and admit when others were right.

Rose, like Finn, was one of the people Kylo deemed inferior and expendable. Like Finn she rejected that to fight back, and like Rey she knows she is more than her birth. Like Poe she showed a willingness to admit when she was wrong and to change her views.

These are the democratic and egalitarian heroes who will fight Kylo Ren despite the odds, who respond to his terrifyingly egocentric worldview with a resounding “no.” No, we are not fodder for your ambitions. No, we do not accept that we are less. No, the greater good is not in some Übermensch because good and evil lie in choices, not individuals or sides. No, we will not bow to you. No, we will not let you continue on this path of destruction. No. No. NO.

Kylo Ren is not evil because he is on the Dark Side of the Force, but because he believes himself to be the absolute good and the ultimate worth due to who he is. It is why he is a villain for our times and why he must be defeated by our heroes.

‘Star Wars’: Oscar Isaac says Carrie Fisher’s still ‘with us’ filming ‘Episode IX’

jewishcomeradebot:

pikrollo:

jewishcomeradebot:

pikrollo:

lj-writes:

jewishcomeradebot:

lj-writes:

jewishcomeradebot:

In the battle against the evil First Order, Isaac thinks it’s easy to forget that the Resistance “are guerrilla fighters, adhering closer to something like the Revolutionary War fighters or even the guerrillas in Cuba with Che and Fidel and all these guys living in the mountains, coming down to do some attacks, and going back and trying to hide from the ‘empire’ of the United States. It’s that kind of ragged at this point.

…

“It is a war movie,” Isaac says. “I mean, above and beyond, it is a movie about warriors.”

Shit, they’re not getting a huge upgrade to manpower? HOW THE FUCK ARE THEY GOING TO WIN otoh he did compare the Resistance to successful revolutionary movements…🤔

Doesn’t look like it, though that does lead to several interesting theories. For one thing it looks like we’re going to see actual guerrilla warfare on screen, only time we’ve got close to that was in Rogue One.

Another is that part of both campaigns is that a lot of it was finding allies, so instead of the ally finding taking place off screen we may get to see that too.

But you know, with all of this, it looks more and more like this is going to be a two parter. JJ simply has too much happening to be able to fit it into one movie, there seems to be more than enough plot for two in fact.

Yeah, for a Rebellion they had very little guerilla-ing going on in the movies. The main Rebellion seemed a well-funded military with multiple Senators in the leadership, and actual guerillas like Saw were called terrorists and extremists. It would be cool to see Episode IX show heroic characters being guerillas/partisans on a sustained basis, which was inevitable after the ending of TLJ. I kind of expected that part to be done during the time skip, but EpIX may be showing at least the tail end of that time period. Maybe the characters shown in the outdoors scene with Finn and Poe are representative of the allies the Resistance is gathering. It also raises the question of when Lando will make his appearance and what kind of resources he will bring to the table.

It seems really late in the game to announce a two-parter–Lionsgate announced it two years in advance for Mockingjay, and if LF is going to go that route it seems we would have heard something by now. But then again LF under Disney and KK has not been a terribly well run operation so nothing would surprise me at this point.

I gotta say I love Oscar comparing the F.O. To the United States cause he is 100% correct in his analysis. It would feel really weird if they split the film up into 2 parts seeing as you said LJ that there was never a prior announcement of them doing such a thing before filming. Maybe it’s just going to be a really long film like tlj but with time being spent wisely. You know not being wasted on alien milking, salt licking, and weird shirtless scenes.

I was debating myself whether to emphasis that part or not. Ended up deciding against it, but damn I was tempted.

As for it not being announced yet. For one thing JJ didn’t even get the script done until February, this production is actually quite rushed. And he might see if he can fit it into one movie. Or he may go a full on Braveheart with four hours and intermission in the middle with IX.

Who knows.

But really, with the hints that Oscar drops here it looks like IX may end up a very different movie and a very different story, from what people have been expecting. 

I really find the reference to the Cuban guerrillas and the early American Civil war interesting, because if we look at how those conflicts went down, we had one enemy (British Empire, US backed Batista government) but multiple factions fighting them. 

Like the US army ended up allied with France against the Brits, then Span allied with France (but not with the US) and finally the Netherlands jumped into the fray allied with no one. And in the case of Fidel and Che, their rebel army ended up allied with others, among them an Anticommunist movement.

So in IX we may have one big enemy (the First Order) and then multiple factions fighting them, Leia’s Resistance among them, who need to get organized among themselves to be efficient.

Though this indicates that though there is a time skip, it might be a whole lot less than people imagine it to be. The estimates I’ve seen – five years or so – is based on what would be needed to build a functional army to oppose the First Order. But if that is not what is happening between TLJ and IX, the skip might be a whole lot shorter.

There’s obviously enough time for Finn’s hair to grow a bit longer and him to buff up severely, but apart from that we don’t know. It could be skipping only a year or two ahead in time.

Yeah it really does feel like the skips much shorter than we where expecting with the information Oscar giving I wouldn’t put the skip past 3 years. I feel that’s enough time to regroup the people you have left and start looking for new allies.

I’m very interested and nervous to see where JJ plans on taking the film. I think all be happy as long as Finn gets the story he truly deserves.

I can really follow you with the nervous and interested part. The more we get of this, the more torn I feel. Because I think we’re either looking at maybe the best Star Wars movie to date, or one of the worst clusterfucks the franchise has ever made. Not quite as bad as TLJ perhaps, but worse than TMP and AotC.

And the damn thing is, we won’t know for sure until over a year from now. The promotion will probably give some hints and the fact that John and Oscar seems to be enthusiastic again is promising. But as previously shown, the cutting of the movie can change the whole picture once more, so we can’t know for absolutely sure until we have the movie.

It’s going to be fifteen very long months.

I thought what @pikrollo​ said about the U.S. being the bad guys was pretty much canon–I mean did anyone not immediately think of the Iraq War when they saw the marketplace battle on Jedha? I’m just surprised that Oscar was comfortable making that comparison in public. Also Oscar is from Guatemala, a country that like much of Latin America suffered significantly from U.S.-backed military dictators, so I can imagine he has Thoughts about the U.S. as an evil empire.

From the way John and Oscar have talked about EpIX, in John’s case before even reading the script, it seems like we’re looking at another military movie like Return of the Jedi or Rogue One, scrappy guerillas/saboteurs against a huge military force (at least on the ground, they seemed more evenly matched in space). I could live with that, RO is one of my favorite SW movies and the last good movie LF has put out to date.

‘Star Wars’: Oscar Isaac says Carrie Fisher’s still ‘with us’ filming ‘Episode IX’