Wasn’t he dragged out of the timeline by space whales, though? It looks like they could deposit him at a plot-convenient timeline, though I don’t want space whales showing up in IX 😂 It also seems Thrawn had a hand, idk how intentionally, in the FO settling in the Unknown Regions with the information he gathered. I agree this is one of the more pie-in-the-sky speculations about EpIX, though it’s fun to think about! What do you think @themandalorianwolf?
@fettjango I didn’t know about that! Unfortunate for him that his knowledge on the Unknown Regions was co-opted by an organization he would have hated. He would be more interesting as a sworn enemy of the FO, assuming the space whales are done with him that is.
If – and that’s one hell of an if if you ask me – Richard E Grant is playing Thrawn, he’d not be part of or allied with the First Order. I could see him become an ally of sorts for the Resistance from the adage, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Thrawn’s priority was always his own people, he allied himself with the Empire because he saw a great threat to his people that they weren’t taking seriously. He saw the Empire as a possible solution to his problem.
The Empire wasn’t really a threat to the Chiss. They were physically a long way off and were more busy getting their own territory in order than conquering new space. By the time they might have got affairs in enough order to become expansionist I could see Thrawn believe he would have enough of a position to protect his people.
The First Order on the other hand is located in the Unknown Region, possibly right on the doorstep of the Chiss Ascendancy. And they are a threat. They’re even more anti-alien than the Empire ever was and they’re extremely territorially aggressive.
What’s more, they’re a threat he helped create. He’d feel honor bound to do everything he could to dismantle it again.
That said, I’m a whole lot less convinced than a lot of people than Richard is playing Thrawn. The correlation between British and being a bad guy is a whole lot less than it was and it was never a certainty. Sir Alec Guiness after all was British and played Obi-Wan in the OT.
And people really have been choosing the most sinister looking pictures of him to “prove” he’s playing Thrawn. But he also looks like this:
That’s a hell of a lot less Thrawn like.
The man has in his life playing everything from dashing heroes such as The Scarlet Pimpernel over staid roles such as Miss Marple’s nephew, to straight up villains as Jack Stapleton in Hound of the Baskervilles. Like any good actor the man has a wide range, he could be playing anything at all.
“If you live long enough, you see the same eyes in different people. I have seen yours once before six years ago, when I helped a young woman flee the destruction of the Jedi Temple.”
More Force sensitive twins Caro and Finn. This time with Maz helping Finn track down his sister who’s been living in hiding since Kylo destroyed the Jedi Temple.
Tumblr is glitchy and won’t let me reblog that post about Naomi Ackie’s possible role from you
I love the idea of Naomi/Caro being both Finn’s sister and a Jedi. There’s apparently a rumor going around about Caro and Rey having a scene where they fight side by side, so there’s something to commend the idea of Jedi!Caro.
All of that I gave me an idea.
JJ has a tendency to both uses pieces of old canon, but pull it all apart and put it back together again in a new way. And occasionally poke fun of it too. And people have been talking about how EpIX if left in JJ’s hand would be a rerun of RotJ, though TFA is less like ANH or the OT than most people try to pretend it is.
But what if he does borrow something from RotJ? What if he borrows the twin reveal and the twins being raised separately and in vastly different circumstances due to tragic events. In the OT it was because Anakin went to the dark side, in the ST it would be because the First Order stole one twin, but the parents managed to protect the second child from them?
And John and Naomi is more or less the same age. I’m saying more or less because we don’t have an exact birth date for Naomi. Wikipedia only gives her birth year as ca 1992. John was born in 1992.
What if Finn’s and “Caro’s” (I’m going with the assumption that Naomi is playing Caro) parents knew about their children’s Force potential and they knew about Luke’s school but they didn’t send their children off because they wanted to wait until they were older, possibly give them their own choice in the matter.
Only tragedy and the First Order strikes and Finn is taken. Perhaps fearing that the First Order will come back they send “Caro” off to Luke’s school where she stays until Kylo turns and destroys everything. Only Caro manages to escape, thinking Master Skywalker is dead and that everything is lost.
She’s spend the time ever since hiding and training herself. Maybe she’s now begun to build her own Resistance against the First Order and against the Knights of Ren and that’s how the two of them – Finn and Caro – come across each other.
Or maybe Maz guides them both.
I know a lot have been made of Maz’s line “if you live long enough you see the same eyes in different people”. What if what she was talking about was Finn’s twin sister?
It would parallel Luke and Leia in Caro/Luke being raised to be a Jedi, while the other Finn/Leia is raised to leadership without any knowledge of the Force.
I can see this happening. As Lucas said, “It’s like poetry… it rhymes,” right?
Also, the description of the rumored “Caro” casting call is suggestive to me.
Casting director Nina Gold is on the hunt for an
“ethnic female”, with a strong preference for an African-American, 18-26
years old, to portray a character by the name of Caro. Caro is
described as having a “captivating naturalness and ease to her manner.”
Caro is a “leader and problem solver, smart with a great sense of humor
and a strong will. All this comes to her effortlessly.”
First, the age range. From the start 18-26 seemed odd because 18 and 26 represent very different levels of maturity and professional achievement. Of course they could always have been intending to find someone at the higher range and the lower range could have been a fake-out, but if we take this at face value the age range would make sense if they’re looking for a sister for someone in their early 20′s, that is searching for a plausible sibling age range.
Second, the description. Maybe it’s the theory hat talking but she really sounds like someone who could be Finn’s sister, in fact she sounds like someone Finn could be if he weren’t saddled with a lifetime of issues from brainwashing and abuse.
This is my favorite theory for Naomi’s character so far!
Yeah like… JJ has pulled some truly eyeroll-worthy shit in the past, but I never got the impression he was the specific type of misogynist to sexualize a woman’s suffering. And if anything Darth Nipple’s treatment of Rey became worse in TLJ. The already paper-thin “they’re enemies in wartime” excuse is ripped to shreds–he’s shown exactly how he’d treat her as an ally.
I don’t think Vic has actual say over the story, but I sure would be happy if JJ listens to her and Ava DuVernay, not to mention the actors! I share your other wishes too, and still would like it if Keri Russell were a Knight of Ren, though I’m pretty sure she’s too old to fulfill most reylows’ fantasies of an ingenue baby factory.
Vic is an assistant director I believe, so not really much creative input, but she does have a voice and we know JJ actually listens to his crew, cast and friends. He listened to Oscar.
Ava Duvernay was the one that came up with this shot for JJ after suggesting Rey needed to be more fierce in her fight with Kylo:
Plus JJ personally brought in Vic since that’s that’s the only way it seems POC can get a job at Lucasfilms.
Vic is Second Unit director which is in its own way a lot bigger deal for her than being assistant director. On one hand she “only” gets to shoot stuff like scenery and secondary cast scenes, on the other hand she has in those shootings complete creative freedom as long as she follows the script. A assistant director works under the direct supervision of the director and needs to gets all their shootings accepted by the director. Ultimately JJ will make the editing, but the shootings is Vic’s to decide on her own how to do.
Second Unit director is often the last step to be a full director, so for Vic to land this job being fairly unknown, not having that much of resume and being a Black woman to boot – no mater how light skinned – is an enormous deal. Especially for her. It could eventually mean her getting a full director job for LFL, but that’s till in the future.
What Vic does not have is any kind of influence of the script or plot. A Second Unit director doesn’t work with the main cast at all. In addition to this the script – and hence the main plot – was done in February long before Vic was hired.
Any and all plot decisions is on JJ and the Story Group. Vic has no say in it. If she has any influence beyond what being Second Unit director usually has, it’s because JJ is open to listening.
In fact, if the rumor that Kathleen Kennedy has stepped down – or been forced to step down – from position as director and any creative influence on EpIX means that everything is on JJ. And possibly the story group, but I could imagine that if Kathleen has been forced to step down Bob Iger has given JJ as free reigns as Rian had.
Which could be interesting but all that happens is on JJ then, not on Vic.
But yes, JJ has always been open to influence and listening to others. And for all his flaws he can usually recognize a better when he sees one such as the scene above or the change he made in Finn’s and Rey’s chemistry.
So yeah, Vic has no influence on the plot or the main characters and people need to drag her into this. It’s a great opportunity for her but means nothing at all for John, Daisy and Oscar (and Kelly, bring back Rose JJ!).
What’s making me hopeful is John being as happy as he is when shooting starts in two days and the fact that JJ is known to listen and be influenced by cast, crew and people he trusts such as Ava.
Thanks for the add on. I really wasn’t sure what her actual title was. When she was hired I was pretty much not interested in hearing much Star Wars news due to TLJ.
Rumors are, so grain of salt of course, that Kathleen Kennedy isn’t on board with 9 at all and JJ is in full control of the project.
I’ve been following JJ Abrams since his time on Lost, Super 8, Star Treck, and I have also watched his producing work like on West World. The man has flaws like any director, but he not only acknowledges them, but also improves from them. He also listens to people who say things like X doesn’t make sense.
I think he’ll take things like Finn’s backstory not getting time, Rey’s lack of a definitive origin, and Poe’s lack of screen time and fix it. I hope Rose is back. I really feel sorry for people like Kelly, Mark, and Laura who got stuck with RJ.
I hope Vic actually gets her own SW project. If D&D, RJ, and the dudes from 21 jump street got one, she definitely can prove herself their better.
Reblobbing for the excellent discussion, and if I may add another rumor to the pile one of the more credible leaks says Rose will be in a scene with Finn and Poe in a scene involving the Hutt cartel (link, via @diversehighfantasy in this post), so fingers crossed for her return!
FINN IS WEARING REBEL GEAR FINN IS WEARING REBEL GEAR
I wonder what happened to this……..Rian?
Do you have any idea how much this pisses me off? Because that has to be the scene where Finn was supposed to be with Paige on board the bomber. There’s nothing else it can be.
But yet Rian keeps talking about like it was in an early draft that quickly got discarded.
Liar.
It went as far as a costume test if not to actual shooting before Craig went and dropped it again, because hey it would make Finn look too much like a hero.
It wasn’t an early draft thing, it wasn’t quickly dropped. It went all the way to a bloody costume test.
I still think to this day Finn’s story was changed in re-shoots. Something just doesn’t add up. John’s hair is completely different and this taken from a BTS video released almost a year ago.
Both Rogue One and Solo went through extensive re-shoots, and I think TLJ was the same deal. Editing can change the perspective of an entire movie and I believe that was the same case here.
My guess is that the test audiences leaned more in favor with Finn and Poe’s perspective rather than Rose and Holdo’s. There are many times I watch the movie and I’m wondering why are these two characters so aggressively being shown in a bad light. TLJ claimed to have a very gray morality, but in truth it works very black-and-white.
Considering Mandalorians are one of my favorite things about Star Wars and Finn is one of my favorite characters, I’m surprised I haven’t written this sooner, but with seeing @lj-writes get a lot of questions about Mandalorian Finn, I thought I’d make a post about the theory.
The theory:
Mandalorian Finn is the theory that our favorite ex Stormtrooper’s family, heritage, or future is tied to the Mandalorians. The idea originated from one eagle eye viewer noticing the Mandalorian symbol on a flag outside of Maz’s castle in TFA.
History of the Mandalorian:
(if the original artist is on Tumblr, I would love to tag you in this, you magnificent creature)
The history of the Mandalorians are complicated due to the fact that that the old EU Legends continuity, Disney continuity, and the continuity of the animated shows has not yet confirmed the completed canon, so here’s a brief summary.
The Mandalorian are not a race or a species, they are culture. While the animated show took some… interesting depictions of the Mandalorians, there is no actual set appearance. Even a Wookie can be a Mandalorian if they earn the right.
If you want to know more here’s a link to both Canon and Legends history of the Mandalorians. I suggest reading both since the Mandalorian history in canon is only covered from the start of the Clone Wars into Rebels, but the legends continuity is still canon before the Clone Wars.
Possibility of Finn being a Mandalorian
The possibility is actually extremely high since unlike many other theories that require making one of the sequel characters match up to a specific timeline to be the child of someone’s, Finn can be the child of any Mandalorian parent that had been anywhere in the galaxy. There is no race requirement or timeline to match up.
Mandalorians can be force sensitive
Since Mandalorians are a culture, it is entirely possible for Mandalorians to join the Jedi Order and Force Users to become Mandalorians. There was even a case of Jedis who abandoned the republic during the Mandalorian Wars and become the Mandalorian Knights.
(Picture not mine)
The First Mandalorian to join the Jedi Order was Tarre Vizsla. Tarre constructed the Darksaber which is a unique weapon that usually only the leader of the Mandalorians use, but there has been exceptions before.
Mandalorian Finn doesn’t conflict with other theories either
Finn can still be force sensitive, the son of Lando, the grandson of Windu, a prince, or whatever other theory people think up, because Mandalorian Finn leaves room for only Finn’s mother or father to be a mandalorian instead of both.
A Mandalorian Finn’s role in EP-XI
Whether it be by becoming the leader of the Mandalorians or becoming an ambassador between them and the New Republic to help gain their assistance in the war against the New Republic, Mandalorian Finn opens many narrative doors for not only Finn, but for EP-XI as a whole. The Mandalorians are one of the only potential allies in the entire galaxy that could help defeat the First Order.
Considering JJ Abrams had already left a hint of Mandalorians finally making their big screen debut, I think there’s a good chance of seeing them.
I had a theory that in TLJ when BB-8 was hacking into the First Order’s database from the Supremacy, he may have downloaded Finn’s records that may lead Finn to finally finding answers about who he is and where did the First Order stole him from. BTW JJ Abrams, if you are reading this, that is the easiest way to do a Finn origin story.
It would also fit into a stormtrooper Rebellion since every Stormtrooper who had left the First Order could join Finn’s self made mandalorian clan. Finn could name it “Storm Clan” and they could mark their helmets with Red streaks in respect to Finn’s as a symbol of freedom and identifying them as free Stormtroopers. That idea came from @lj-writes
Bringing back Mandalorians to the big screen also allows Lucasfilms to bring back Boba Fett and test him out to our modern audience so they can gauge if doing a stand alone film is a smart idea.
My ideal Mandalorian family if Disney weren’t cowards?
Idris Elba – Finn’s Father
Letitia Wright – Finn’s sister
Angela Bassett or Lisa Bonet – Finn’s birth mother
Terry Crews – Finn’s 2nd father/Idris Elba’s partner
Bonus: Michael B. Jordan as Finn’s old squad mate Zero who deserted from the First Order too.
Well Known Mandalorians
If anyone has any other Mandalorian Finn interests or just Mandalorian questions, feel free to send me a message or hit my inbox. I’m not one of the experts on Mandalorian lore, but I know a good deal.
Mandalorian Finn is personally my favorite theory and I hope it happens!
Reposting because I added some well known Mandalorians to the post.
I love the idea of House Storm as a new clan! Maybe their house colors could be red and black on white. Also Stormtroopers are already used to fighting in full body armor and fight quite aggressively as a result. The Mandalorian armor and fighting style wouldn’t be as much of an adjustment, though the flying might be lol.
While I hope many Stormtroopers will be able to find their original family and heritage, that might not be an option for many of them given how genocide-happy the FO is. Even those who reconnected with their Mandalorian heritage, including Finn, might find themselves too distinct from their birth clans to fully reintegrate. Forming a new clan that acknowledges their shared experience and trauma while reclaiming their shared identity may be the most workable solution for those who lost their homes of origin or can’t completely integrate. For some time spent with their Trooper sibs might be a period of acclimatization, for others House Storm might be a permanent home. I can see them being quite open and accepting that way.
That a great number of Stromtroopers were stolen Mandalorian younglings makes sense in SW history too, given that the Clonetroopers were made with a Mandalorian template. They were literally the perfect warriors. The FO, which emulated the Empire in so many ways, would have been mindful of this history.
I can’t find any info of what’s happening in Mandalore during the ST era, if they did lose children to the FO would they be looking for them? Gone to war with the FO? Or did the FO primarily target outlying and isolated communities and families so as not to raise Mandalore’s wrath before they were ready? Would Finn’s story, then, move Mandalore to act? So many fascinating possibilities!
STORMTROOPER UPRISING GOD AND JJ PLEASE LET ME LIVE
With Finn leading them.
Imagine Finn appearing on screens throughout the First Order, telling the Stormtroopers who he is, telling his story, telling them that they, too, can be free.
Imagine his image appearing everywhere, his face painted on bulkheads, his designation number scratched on a piece of equipment only to be scratched out and replaced with “Finn.”
Imagine Free Troopers with red streaks on their helmets in honor of
Finn and to distinguish themselves from the Stormtroopers loyal to the
First Order.
Imagine firefights in the corridors of Star Destroyers, Walkers turning on each other, officers shot in the back by their own troops.
Imagine Finn himself appearing among the ranks, taking off the helmet to reveal himself, and Hux ordering the Troopers to shoot him–but they raise their guns instead, parting to make way, and he walks through the parting sea of white.
Imagine the Star Destroyers empty and abandoned, scrawled with graffiti of red-streaked helmets and the words “Resist” and “Refuse.”
Much as I’d like them to start the movie out in a relationship, I think it’s unlikely. As of the end of TLJ they still have a lot of issues to work through before a full intimate commitment. Rey is likely to be shaken by the experience of being so coldly manipulated by someone she put her trust in, and Finn has to work through what his own commitment to the Resistance means. There’s also the question of whether Rose and Finn will start a relationship and what that means for both of them when there are so many problems in their dynamic and Rose has a ton of issues to work through herself. Mostly I’d like to see Rose and Rey bond early in the movie without any of the toxic jealousy nonsense that marred Rose’s character in TLJ.
A period of friendship between Finn and Rey without necessarily being romantic, including dating other people, could be good for them in the long term, too. Their first attachment sprang up so fast in the midst of a galactical crisis and literal life-and-death situations, and for all they love each other they don’t really know each other that well. Having a calm period of growing friendship and long conversations, including supporting each other through romances and breakups, would allow their lives to entwine together in a more gradual, organic way.
I can’t begin to guess whether we’ll see them get together romantically in IX but I’m very sure there will be enough closeness and emotional intimacy for strong implications of romance, and I hope we’ll get an onscreen kiss and declarations of love, too–there’s really no reason not to, given how overwhelming their attraction for each other was from the start.
Why would Kylo try to get away from the First Order in EpIX?
It makes neither story nor character sense. We see him in TFA running his own independent mission, openly disregarding Snoke’s orders time and again. In TLJ we see him willingly take power in the First Order and assume the mantle of Supreme Leader.
He wants to lead the First Order. He wants to use is capabilities to burn down everyone and everything in the galaxy that does not comply with his own narrow understanding of “how things should be”.
From the moment we meet him until the ending of TLJ Kylo is shown to want only one thing, power. Power to do what he wants to do, to rule because he thinks its his right to do so (because he’s Darth Vader’s grand son).
He’s not going to try and get away from the First Order. He wants the position he has.
There are people who say that? The most I saw floating around Reylowverse was the (still utterly ridiculous) idea that Rey and Kylo will be exiles from the Resistance and FO respectively for their actions in TLJ and then will meet up. This has been debunked, of course, by the announcement that Finn and Rey are teaming up again in EpIX. Maybe that’s why they’re taking the fallback position that Kyle will get away from the organization he took such great effort to take over? It doesn’t make any story sense either way whether he’s kicked out or leaves, like talk about a letdown after we watched him scheme and fight his way to the throne. For a crowd who supposedly love TLJ so much they sure seem eager to undo one of its crucial developments.
Given they way their last fight ended, I much prefer the first option. The second would have to be done really, really well if it is not to feel like a trite rehash of the throne room fight and an abrupt turnaround for the Kyle Ron character. And God, I don’t want a movie where Finn is forced to ignore the injustices done against him like Rey was in TLJ.
Hm, as much as I want less Kylo in EpIX (me being petty, I kno he’ll be in it a lot), this is a very interesting rumor. What if Kylo’s final arc of the trilogy revolves around Finn? (NOT Finn’s arc revolving around Kylo, we already saw that mess with Rey.) What if the big showdown is Finn V Kylo, the ex-Stormtrooper Rebel Vs the Supreme Leader? And does this rumor mean that Finn might actually come up in EpIX speculation? (LMAOOO yeah right)
If JJ continues with the protagonist-antagonist relationship he actually set up in TFA, then a showdown between them is a logical conclusion. There may be a twist to the formula, though. Both TFA and TLJ showed a lot of comparisons and contrasts between Finn and Kylo. TFA emphasized their contrasts; Kylo came from a loving family and privileged background with the Rebels/Republic, while Finn was torn away from his own family and forced to serve the First Order before they each crossed over in the other direction. The mirrored comparisons were still there, though, with both of them asserting their individuality over the group identities they were assigned.
TLJ actually showed a few more of these comparisons, I think, with both Kylo and Finn doubling down on their decisions and being willing to defy authority and push their own agenda. They both kill the past in their own ways, Kylo by killing Snoke and attempting to destroy the Resistance and Finn by killing Phasma and, in the deleted scene, planting doubts in the Stormtrooper ranks. They went about their actions in contrasting ways, of course. Their decisions were in opposite directions, Kylo was destroying while Finn was trying to save lives, and where Kylo enmeshed himself deeper into abuse and oppression in ascending to Snoke’s place, Finn took another step toward freedom by killing Phasma. Where Kylo treated Rey as a means to an end and was ready to destroy her when she refused to change who she was for him, Finn treated her as an end in herself, loving and cherishing her for who she was.
Continuing these comparisons and contrasts into EpIX, there may be a case for Kylo seeing Finn as someone he could reach an understanding with. Like Kylo himself, Finn knows what it’s like to leave everything he knew behind and follow his own path. Though Kylo probably hates Finn more than anyone else and vice versa, he may also think Finn, unlike Rey, might be able to “let the past die” and “kill it, if he has to.” He’s done it before, after all.
Kylo is unlikely to want Finn to serve him like he wanted with Rey. Given Finn’s history, Kylo wouldn’t want him as a subordinate if he has any sense left. What Kylo might suggest, as the fighting is growing protracted and losses are mounting up, is that they have a separate peace. Finn can have the Free Troopers or his Outer Rim worlds. Rather than destroy each other in a futile bloodbath why not sign an armistice and keep to their separate territories? Save what you love and not fight what you hate, right? (Okay, he won’t use that exact line obviously.) Kylo might even show Rey being in immediate danger, and ask Finn if he’s willing to sacrifice her to this fight. Rose might actually be tempted by the idea–the Rebellion are taking heavy losses, triggering her trauma of losing Paige, and after the devastation her home world suffered the idea of a war-free galaxy is an attractive one.
Finn, to the audience and Poe’s shock, might actually appear open to the idea. He has terms, though: The FO must discontinue its Stormtrooper program. It cannot steal children, and it cannot grow clones to fill out its ranks. It must retreat to the Unknown Regions and not expand. If there is any hint of continued slavery and child-stealing by the FO the Rebellion will be back to fuck them up twice as worse as before.
Just as Kylo is about to accept, without any intention of honoring the terms obviously, Finn tells him he isn’t done: His final term is that Supreme Leader Kylo Ren, Master of the Knights of Ren, lay down his lightsaber and surrender himself to be tried for his crimes against the galaxy. General Hux may take his place and rule the First Order, so long as he abides by the terms of the accord.
This, as Finn predicted, has the effect of finally turning Hux to decisive action against Kylo. Hux, who also has no intention whatsoever of keeping those terms once he takes power, carries out his plan to neutralize Kylo. Kylo repels the attack but is distracted or weakened, and then the final showdown begins–both militarily and thematically. Finn, who obviously had no intention of ever striking a deal with the FO under Hux (they’re all bad-faith fuckers here 😂), throws Kylo’s self-contradictions in his face, giving the lie to his rhetoric of letting the past die. Kylo is nothing but a pale copy of Snoke, a murderer and enslaver. “I am a leader of the Free Troopers, and I don’t negotiate with the thrall to a dead monster.” I mean what kind of effect would such a dismissive line have on the entitled narcissist Kylo Ren with his unstable temper?
I’m not saying this is what will happen (just imagine though, holy shit). Nevertheless, the fact that this kind of storytelling is even imaginable with Finn shows how unprecedented he is in SW while still keeping to its best traditions. Whatever the form, the best path for IX is keeping the line of tension between Finn and Kylo Ren and bringing that relationship to a payoff.
L.J.'s Obsessions 