So I’m seeing the idea floating around Reyiloverse that Rey and Kylo are going to be outcasts from the Resistance and First Order respectively because they fraternized with the enemy. I don’t know whether to laugh or feel sorry for these fans; they’re still in such deep denial about Kylo in TLJ. They can’t accept the fact that he chose evil yet again, and have to find some way to reverse his choice so as to make his arc in TLJ a consequence-free, meaningless one.

Also the idea that the Resistance will turn against Rey because she Force-skyped with Kylo? I mean, this is such a fundamental misunderstanding of not only the main characters in the Resistance but also the very nature of the central conflict. Reyluvians still seem to think their ship this is some kind of Romeo and Juliet deal, that the war against the First Order is not a fight for survival against fascism but a squabble between “two households, both alike in dignity/in a galaxy far far away, where we lay our scene.”

Needless to say, the conflict between the Resistance and the First Order is nothing like the conflict between the Capulets and the Montagues. In Romeo and Juliet the problem was the feud between the houses. No one knows or cares what the original conflict was or who is in the right. As Mercutio’s immortal–or all too mortal–line makes clear, they are morally equivalent in their destructive and unnecessary conflict.

In the sequel trilogy, on the other hand, the problem is that the First Order exists. The problem is not that there is a “feud,” it’s that the First Order is a genocidal, enslaving, conquering force that must be stopped. It is disingenuous and obtuse to apply Veronian logic to the GFFA and believe peace and reconciliation between rival factions is ultimate goal, or that “both sides” are simply petty and hateful partisans.

I mean how is this not clear to everyone? One of the FO’s former slaves is right there in the main cast. It’s truly odd and a little frightening to me that after everything so many fans choose to see the new leader of a fascist regime as the true hero of the story.

Speaking of Finn, something else I find funny: There are also discussions in this side of the fandom of the possibility that Finn will lead a Stormtrooper uprising. And you know what, it’s nice to know that despite our differences Kylostans and Finnstans alike recognize this as a good development for Finn and the story at large.

However, there doesn’t seem to be a corresponding recognition in the Reeyloverse that any uprising is going to put Kylo and Finn in direct conflict. This is perhaps because of the aforementioned speculation that Kylo will be an outcast or deposed leader. In addition, some Reyloans seem to think the Stormtrooper uprising is about Kylo, that the deleted scene from TLJ where Finn plants doubts in Stormtroopers’ minds and Phasma shoots them dead foreshadows Kylo’s future.

This reminds me of a small smattering of pre-TLJ speculation that Kylo was going to lead a Stormtrooper uprising, based on the trailer where he is shown leading Troopers in Crait. At the time even proponents admitted it was a long shot, but I have a feeling we’ll see similar theories make a revival if there’s the least whiff of an uprising happening in EPIX (honestly do it JJ). I mean because obviously Finn can’t be the center of a possible plotline based on his own traumatic background, it has to be a vehicle for Kylo’s redemption somehow.

jewishcomeradebot:

thatscanvengerey:

jewishcomeradebot:

thatscanvengerey:

i’m going on a sidetrack rant right now, but where is Rose in all these leaks? We know she didn’t die. And also, I imagine Finn and Rey (and possibly Poe) have way more scenes together, so where are those? I get it’s a basic outline, but some are incredibly detailed and there’s still no mention of any of that/them.

Also, Poe being a “terrorist” or “extremist”, or whatever word we’re choosing to go with, literally goes against his character development.

I just… SOMETHING AINT ADDING UP.

There was always a very real chance that Rose would not be in Episode IX as she’s Rian character, not JJ’s. (I’m still positing that he could – and should – have fund a place for her.) And Rian really did make removing her easy by leaving her severely wounded at the end of TLJ.

But then I might be wrong as we don’t have the full cast list yet and LF seems to wait until they have everyone – including the mythical ‘Mara’ and the mysterious ‘Caro’ – before they announce anything at all. (Most people aren’t asking about Rose either, which just makes it easier for them to say nothing. It’s still a dick move to the audience and to Kelly Marie not to be forthcoming.)

The only thing we know for sure right now is that Finn and Rey spends a lot of their time together in Episode IX. It’s the one leak we have that can be called reliable as it comes from JJ himself, though told by John via Daisy. So really, any leak that doesn’t put Finn and Rey together for a major part of the plot, is complete bogus. (And most likely wishful thinking on reylos part as they’re terrified of this combined with the very like time skip we’re getting – re: John growing his hair longer for Finn – as this will mean a development in Finn’s and Rey’s relationship.

Hm, interesting. I would think JJ plans to do something with Rose, or that’s more a hope, I guess. But, LF did release a book that’s essentially Rose’s diary and it follows the events of TLJ. Perhaps that’s where I assumed she’d be in IX?

Jason Fry seems to think so, too, and he’s the one who wrote it, but maybe it’s wishful thinking.

Also, I’m not sure where I read it— it may have been on here— but it was revealed Tran was training vigoriously. Again, maybe we all assumed it would be for 9. Perhaps we will know more at the end of the month when they all truly start training for the upcoming film.

But, yes! The whole J.J. putting Finn and Rey together confirmed through John is the only leak I believe, aside from Kylo working with his KoR to hunt down other Force sensitives. I mean, he said he’d do that and I’d be disappointed if he fell through with that.

The Rose book was likely planned and written months ago, back when Jurassic!Colin was still in charge of Episode IX. Like books takes months to go from finished manuscript to the book you hold in you hand (or have on your screen in the case of e-book). So she might have been meant to be in Episode IX, but not anymore.

I’ve only seen one rumor of her training and that’s from a guy who writes pretty much any rumor no matter how spurious. And even he says that she (Rose) is reportedly back in Episode IX.

Of course, it’s still early days and basically everything at this point is a rumor.

(As much as I hated her interactions with Finn thanks to Rian not know how to write a non-abusive relationship, I really do hope JJ made space for Rose. The character has a ton of potential that was entirely wasted in TLJ.)

Re: Kylo and the Knight of Ren. I’ve been going through what information was connected to TFA and in the Illustrated Guide it is said that after Snoke took power in the First Order and Kylo joined him they had together been hunting down people who could use the Force. With what we are then given in TLJ I could see this continued hunt becoming a central factor.

One possibility for Finn’s and Rey’s lne in Episode IX could be finding and protecting those Force users that are left while there’s still time. With possibly Poe (and Rose if she’s there) taking care of the military part of the war.

Heck, I have an idea that the ST was from JJ’s hand not so much meant to be the Skywalker saga as an arc about the Force itself. Nearly all the questions asked when they started bouncing out ideas was about the Force, only one was about Luke. And ever since TFA ended with Kylo being the only confirmed Skywalker I could see the ST being the end of the Skywalker line.

My main argument against it was that I couldn’t see Disney giving up the cash cow that was Luke Skywalker and that it was JJ “Nostalgia” Abrams in charge. Well it looks like Disney can’t wait to be rid of the Skywalkers and I had a convo with at @lj-writes the other day about how JJ being Jewish might mean that he has a radically different take on stories about Chosen Ones and Chosen Bloodlines than George’s Christian fairy tale. I might make a post about that later, if true I’m going to be laughing all the way from the theater home. (And the reynos are going to have such a meltdown but so will OT fans. But you know what, given how much Christians have been screwing with Jewish stories for centuries I kinda hope I’m right and that JJ does pull the trigger.)

Anyway, I’m rambling here.

LMAO these leaks are literally all, “Poe becomes a terrorist” | “Hux overthrows Kylo” (somehow, even though it’s been said somewhere that basically no one actually likes him and he’s no threat to him) | “the KoR betray him” (which makes zero sense because they have literally no reason to, plus it’s been implied that they aren’t even Force-Sensitive) | Kylo is a benevolent leader” Like Ren literally CANNOT be a bad guy in any of these leaks for some reason lmaooooo

themandalorianwolf:

Lmao 😂

I know. Who even wants this story? Flip the script, I still hate the leaks because it’s just terrible! Finn masters a lightsaber in “mere minutes”. Rey has Kylo’s Love Force Child and an affair with him. Leia is re-cast! Ghost Yoda forgives Kylo Ren! Finn gets a random black woman to be his wife because interracial or homosexual relationships are bad!

It’s like this leaked just stole the most cliché fan fictions plot points and applied them to EP 9 plot. The only credibility this guy/girl/troll has is that they guessed things right about TLJ, but that shit plays out like a bad fan fiction anyway!

Finn is a supporting character with no character arc and he has a new move interest.

Poe is killed off out of nowhere and forgotten.

KYLO REN SAYS HE’S SORRY AND CANCELS THE WAR! THE ENTIRE GALAXY HAILS HIM A HERO!

Han Solo ‘s Force Ghost breaks the very laws of Star Wars to praise Kylo Ren!

Kylo Ren gets an entire Jedi academy named after him!

Funny thing is, the only mention given to Rey is that she loves Kylo Ren.

The rest of the cast are nobodies

Who knows maybe these are all real and this is JJ deciding “It is time… for Star Wars to end.” After TLJ none of these would surprise me.

jewishcomeradebot:

@lj-writes

I got to thinking. I want a Stormtrooper rebellion as much as anyone, but leading the people out of Egypt wasn’t the only important thing Moses did. There are other important stories with him.

And when we take into account that the founding question of the ST apparently was “What relevance does to Force have in the present day world [in the GFFA universe]” I can’t help but recall that story with the hike up the mountain and the longish talk with G-d that led to a new Covenant and half a score new Commandments.

Are you thinking of Finn in a wilderness, seeking communion with the Force? Haircuts are optional but I hope he doesn’t go for 40 days without eating…😨

The question of the relevance of the Force in the sequel era got me thinking about Rogue One and Chirrut’s story in particular. Though RO is pre-OT timeline wise, it was made in the sequel era with canon meant to be usable in sequel works. What always struck me about Chirrut’s arc was how spiritual it was, with more focus on the will of the Force than on using the Force for what you want to do.

(I mean there are people who miss the hell out of the point, of course: One reviewer said the perfect culmination of Chirrut’s story would have been him flipping the master switch on Scarif with the Force, and I’m like uhhh… no? This same reviewer also said Kylo Ren was the only character who made sense as a human being in TFA, so deliver me from white male geeks basically.)

This spirituality of the Force is supported by the worldbuilding as well, with the Force sects and religions on Chirrut’s native Jedha and elsewhere, like the village Kylo Ren slaughtered at the start of TFA. And with the destruction of Jedha these religious groups are likely to have migrated far and wide along with refugees, which may have been how a branch of the Church of the Force ended up on Jakku. If Finn turns out to be a Jedhan, as we both fondly hope, he would be reclaiming his heritage as well by seeking out the guidance of the Jedhans, maybe to interpret the Jedi texts or something.

If Episode IX is to explore the spirituality of the Force, it may include not only relations to the supernatural but also relations among people, that is how people are allowed or obligated to treat each other. I said in my meta about the contrasts and comparisons of Finn’s and Rey’s backgrounds that if the Republic were to rise again it would have to find some solutions to the existing iniquities that did not go away with the end of the Empire. It looks like a covenant would be a good start to that, with not just top-down policy but bottom-up commitment and demand on the part of the peoples of the GFFA driving change.

That would be a long leap from Finn at the end of TLJ, of course, so if he has longer hair throughout the movie it’s unlikely to be because he’s on a spiritual quest. One possibility is that he has longer hair to make him a little less recognizable to the FO while he carries out missions in areas where he might have run-ins with them. Or he just wanted a change, who knows. Part of his mission together with Rey might be to seek out groups potentially friendly to the Resistance because they’re in sort of desperate need of allies after getting wiped out in the previous movie for no good reason, and who would be more stridently antifascist than people who lost their home to the Empire? While he gets closer to the Jedhans he might find out about their religion as well and maybe seek guidance on the texts Rey brought back, and the story can go off from there.

John Boyega teases Star Wars news as he promotes cancer-fighting app – Independent.ie

jewishcomeradebot:

The London-born star, who plays Finn in Star Wars, said: “I can’t wait to start shooting the next and final leg of the franchise.

“The first step is growing out my hair, so you can wait for the trailer to see why.”

*eye emoji*

Interesting.

For one thing it confirms that there’ll a time skip of some magnitude between TLJ and Episode IX. Unless they’re intent on breaking normal biological rules along with everything else.

But apart from a time skip – which nearly everyone is expecting – what could Finn having longer hair mean? Any takers on theories?

For one thing it may mean that we won’t be seeing a Stormtrooper infiltration, at least not at first, since Stormtroopers all have short hair. I mean I can imagine an Important Haircut sequence, but would the haircut have to be real? Is it practical when it means you can’t do retakes of prior scenes without a wig? I have a feeling if there was going to be a haircut scene John wouldn’t grow out his hair in the first place.

If there is a Stormtrooper uprising plot, as I dearly hope, maybe it’ll be achieved without the need for him to go undercover because let’s face it, that’s been done before and Supreme Buttface is going to sense him anyway ~~because he’s obsessed.~~

John Boyega teases Star Wars news as he promotes cancer-fighting app – Independent.ie

kyberfox:

sheriffcobbvanth:

Okay, but I’ve still found more fuel for my Finn-is-Force-Sensitive theory.

So on Canto Bight, when Finn and Rose are riding that fathier, when Finn says “we need cover” the fathier conveniently veers away from the pack, into a tunnel. It then carries them directly to the beach, and to their ship. It didn’t look like there was any sort of bridle, and I know that it isn’t easy to steer/ride a horse without knowing the words or motions that the horse was trained to respond to. Why would a fathier be any different?

Finn has never ridden any sort of steed before and doesn’t even know what a fathier is, but still manages to ride one through a city and up a cliff with no experience.

So either Finn a) communicated directly with the fathier through the Force or b) learned how to control a fathier from watching jockeys ride around a track for five seconds.

You’re absolutely right, well spotted.

There’s no bridle or any sort of headgear though someone, Rose I assume, put a saddle on the fathier they’re riding. But Rose is basically just holding on to its mane as she has no means of steering.

What’s more. Finn and Rose take the fathier and its companions straight through a window and into the casino. Anyone who’s ever ridden anything knows how damn difficult it would be to get any steed to go straight into an obstacle. Normally a mount would balk, stop, turn aside, anything rather than go through a solid barrier.

Finally, they’re riding the “lead” fathier and it looks like fathiers are herd animals. When they veer off, ordinary herd mentality would be for the herd to follow them, yet somehow when they turn aside the rest of the fathiers just continue.

So I think it wasn’t just the fathier Finn and Rose were riding he was influencing.

Good points, and also:

“So either Finn a) communicated directly with the fathier through the
Force or b) learned how to control a fathier from watching jockeys ride
around a track for five seconds.”

I actually find the latter scenario plausible, too, given how quickly Finn
picks up complex skills like starfighter gunning and lightsaber
fighting. I have a theory it’s an application of his super empathy.

But
in this case, since there was no bridle, I’m guessing
it was mostly Force telepathy with maybe some quick learning involved
(like maybe Finn watched how the jockeys use their legs, for instance,
to more effectively communicate with the animal *takes a moment to swoon
at Finn’s thighs*).

Also
it’s interesting to think about what Force telepathy may have in common
with autism, because I’ve read that some autistic people have an easier
time connecting with animals than people, even preverbal babies. It’s almost like language and the capacity for it can get in the way of direct communication. We
have never seen Finn communicate like this with a humanoid species that
has language.

It is not a good move, career-wise, for JJ to come back for Star Wars: Episode IX. He broke and set so many records with The Force Awakens that there is an entire Wikipedia page devoted to the subject. At best the performance of IX will be somewhere between TLJ and TFA, maybe closer to TFA if things go well.

But let’s be real, barring a miracle JJ won’t outperform his prior record-smashing hit, and this is all the more the case after TLJ divided the fanbase so badly. If IX underperforms TLJ in accordance with the usual original-to-sequel
dropoff, RJ’s mistakes will be blamed on JJ and there is going to
be a torrent of thinkpieces about whether JJ is losing his touch. His detractors will have a field day and it will hurt his standing in the industry.

So why is he coming back? Why not sit back, rest on his TFA laurels, and leave RJ to wrap up the trilogy he had taken up, as everyone (including Daisy) was expecting? JJ is a hugely in-demand director and producer, all the more after his triumph in TFA. He has his pick of projects and must have had to clear so many things off his schedule to do IX. None of them was SW, to be sure, but he did SW. Realistically he can’t do better than he already has. So why?

In my opinion the only reason to come back that makes sense is because he’s dissatisfied with the way the trilogy went under RJ. He started this new trilogy and now he wants to end it, and he doesn’t want RJ to do it.

Some say he was executive director for TLJ and had to have approved of it, but the role of an executive director can vary a lot. For larger productions, executive producers may be involved more in financing, scheduling, and legal duties with little in the way of creative control.

I also think a big part of the reason for JJ’s return is Finn/John. JJ was so impressed by John as Moses in Attack the Block that he told John they would collaborate on a future project. Remember, this is a world famous director speaking to a very young actor in his early twenties, based on his appearance in a small British film in his late teens. That’s how impressed JJ was. He remained so impressed that he kept his promise years later and the role was a fucking lead in fucking Star Wars. JJ then went to bat for John through a seven-month audition process despite the rumored objections of LucasFilm President KK.

All of this tells me that JJ has something special in mind for Finn. Why else would he go to all that trouble to cast one of the best young actors in the world, knowing he would face racist backlash both from the studio and the fans? I respect JJ’s commitment to diversity, but you don’t become one of the biggest directors in the world by putting diversity over delivery. JJ knows talent, and John is one of the best in his age group. JJ wanted John because John was the actor who could bring his plans for Finn to fruition.

I think JJ is coming back despite the risks because he wants his vision, not RJ’s, to be the last word on the sequel trilogy. If he liked the way RJ was doing things he could have sat back and enjoyed the show, literally. I also think Finn is a huge part of JJ’s reasons, given the effort JJ took to cast the right man for the character. I certainly hope JJ treats him better than RJ did, and better than JJ himself did in TFA for that matter.

What do you think the odds are of Finnrey in IX after that last scene, where Rey looks on at Finn and Rose without him looking back? I love Finnrey so much and that scene kind of broke my heart; I love their connection, but I don’t know if J.J. has enough time to establish that relationship again. I’m holding out hope but I’m nervous

fyeahfinnrey:

I do think it’s too soon to tell what Ep 9 will bring but Finnrey seems to be the most likely scenario to me. According to John Boyega, it seems like the scene was either written or directed to convey that Rey was a bit jealous. I personally intrepreted that scene as a mix of longing, regret, jealous, and affection. Honestly, I’m pretty biased with this but I think Finnrey is the endgame ship that would make the most sense at this point. Most of the other potential ships don’t really have enough screentime in the past two movies to make it believable and rewarding. Finnrey obviously also didn’t get much screentime in TLJ but they had way more than anyone else in TFA and throughout TLJ, Finn lit her way home and they were on each other’s minds a lot so even with limited screentime, still an important, positive relationship. There have already been hints of romance in both TFA and TLJ so there is already a foundation that would easily translate to canon romance.

JJ created Finn and Rey and their dynamic and was inspired by how well Daisy and John worked together. (And their chemistry received a lot of praise, as Daisy has mentioned frequently!) The last thing he wrote/directed for them Rey kissed Finn’s forehead. I think he’d probably be most inclined to go in that direction going forward. Orrrrrrr everyone ends up single.

What do you think the odds are of Finnrey in IX after that last scene, where Rey looks on at Finn and Rose without him looking back? I love Finnrey so much and that scene kind of broke my heart; I love their connection, but I don’t know if J.J. has enough time to establish that relationship again. I’m holding out hope but I’m nervous

fyeahfinnrey:

I do think it’s too soon to tell what Ep 9 will bring but Finnrey seems to be the most likely scenario to me. According to John Boyega, it seems like the scene was either written or directed to convey that Rey was a bit jealous. I personally intrepreted that scene as a mix of longing, regret, jealous, and affection. Honestly, I’m pretty biased with this but I think Finnrey is the endgame ship that would make the most sense at this point. Most of the other potential ships don’t really have enough screentime in the past two movies to make it believable and rewarding. Finnrey obviously also didn’t get much screentime in TLJ but they had way more than anyone else in TFA and throughout TLJ, Finn lit her way home and they were on each other’s minds a lot so even with limited screentime, still an important, positive relationship. There have already been hints of romance in both TFA and TLJ so there is already a foundation that would easily translate to canon romance.

JJ created Finn and Rey and their dynamic and was inspired by how well Daisy and John worked together. (And their chemistry received a lot of praise, as Daisy has mentioned frequently!) The last thing he wrote/directed for them Rey kissed Finn’s forehead. I think he’d probably be most inclined to go in that direction going forward. Orrrrrrr everyone ends up single.

This will sound stupid but i have this brand new fear about TLJ and thats going off the Kilo will die thing. What if he doesn’t die but loses his force instead and is left as some broken shell of his former self? And what if they end the movie with Rey either saving him or vaguelly implying she did cause she is a “better person”??? The reylosers wont shut up about rey/o being canon and I Dont Want This, 12 days are too long D:

@tarisilmarwen replied:

lj-writes:

God, I hope it doesn’t go that way. For one thing disability as punishment/a mark of evil is wayyyy overdone in this franchise and it’s a really grating ableist trope. One of the refreshing things about Kyn, Hooks, and Phantasm is that they’re able-bodied, somewhat attractive villains. And to put Rey in the role of caretaker to his sorry ass? That’s just boring.

Fortunately, unless they’re completely breaking prior rules of Force sensitivity, that is not a likely plotline for them to do. They axed ysalimiri from canon because living beings that negated the Force made no sense, so it’s unlikely someone can have the Force taken from them.

And if they were it’s likely to kill them, and there’s evidently a rumor that Snoke’s going to do that to Kyle. It seems unlikely from how hale the latter seems on Crait, which presumably takes place after the Supremacy, but yeah, the anon’s scenario is unlikely to happen.