OMG…I just saw a screen grab of twitter thread that said Kyle saying “join me…please” to Rey is the ST’s equivalent to Han’s “I know” from ESB and
Like…how HOW can you compare the “I love you/I know” moment with a scene where Kylo yells at Rey, emotionally manipulates her and tells her she’s nothing??
I mean hello THIS:
Is the scene from the OT that Rey and Kylo scene is actually paralleling.
(The repetitive, lazy writing is intentional. I’m also really playing up the more ridiculous aspects of the movie. Warning: compared to The Last Jedi, at least, this fic might actually make sense.)
Star Wars: Episode II: The Last Jedi Strikes Back
The EMPIRE reigns. Having discovered the location of the Rebellion, Emperor Palpatine now deploys merciless legions to restore military control of the galaxy.
Luke Skywalker has gone in search of Jedi Master Yoda, certain that he can restore a spark of hope to the fight.
But the Rebellion is in grave danger. As the Empire speeds toward the rebel base, the brave heroes mount a desperate escape….
Chapter I: The Evacuation
The Avenger loomed over the jungle moon, its shadow casting doom on the rebel base. Below, General Rieekan shouted orders, loading transports with evacuees. Above the planet, the Home One waited for the evacuation to complete so the fleet could escape into hyperspace.
Suddenly Rieekan looked up as something massive emerged from hyperspace. It was a Star Destroyer, black and bigger than any Star Destroyer the general had ever seen. It was the dreadnought Eclipse, and it had come to wipe the rebel base from off the face of Yavin IV.
From the Avenger’s bridge, Captain Needa turned and smirked to his commanding officer. “Our first catch of the day.”
“I have my orders from the Emperor himself,” said Admiral Piett with sober triumph. “Wipe them out. All of them.”
As the hearts of the rebels filled with dread, a ship approached the Star Destroyer Avenger.
From the cockpit of the Millennium Falcon, C-3PO murmured, “I have a bad feeling about this.”
Chewbacca growled at him, an admonition to be upbeat and think happy thoughts.
“With all due respect, Chewbacca,” came the voice of Ackbar, the fleet admiral, “I’m with the droid on this one.”
“Well, thanks for the support, admiral,” Han snarked from the gunner’s position. “Chewie, open communications.”
Chewie flicked a switch and a signal was transmitted to the Star Destroyer Avenger.
“This is Han Solo of the Millennium Falcon,” said Han loud and clear over the channel. “I have an urgent communique for Admiral Pete.”
“Patch him through,” Piett ordered, walking the length of the bridge. “This is Piett. Your rebellion is at an end. You are all scum and war criminals. There will be no terms, no surrender. We will eliminate your filth from the galaxy.”
Han drummed his fingers on the trigger. “Hello?”
“Yes?” asked Piett.
“I’m holding for Admiral Pete.”
“This is Piett,” the admiral snapped.
“Is Admiral Pete there?” Han demanded. “Can someone please get me an Admiral Pete?”
“I am Admiral Piett,” Piett snapped. “Can you hear me?”
“Piett? With a P?” asked Han. “Bony fella. Big Adam’s apple.”
“That is me,” Piett snapped. “I am Admiral Piett.”
“Look, is anyone even there? Why won’t you answer me?” Han snapped.
“This is Piett of the Imperial Navy,” Piett snapped. “I can hear you. Can you hear me?”
“Do I have the right number?” asked Han.
“We read you,” said Piett. “This is Piett.”
“Look, if I can’t get an Admiral Pete, can I talk to Ensign Ferder?” asked Han. “First name Nerv, is he on?”
“Is there a Nerv Ferder on this ship?” asked Piett loudly to the bridge.
“No, sir,” replied the crew with a straight face.
“There are no Nerv Ferders on this ship,” said Piett to Han.
“Well, that’s obviously wrong,” Han smirked.
Needa furrowed his brow. “I believe he’s tooling with you, sir.”
“Look, I can’t hold forever,” Han snapped. “If you see Piett, tell him I’ve got an urgent message from Admiral Ackbar. About his mother.”
Piett blinked. “What is it?”
“Oh brother. Boring conversation anyway,” Han muttered as he hung up. “Punch it, Chewie!”
Chewie roared and put the Falcon’s new booster to the test, sending Threepio flying into the wall with a wail and a clatter.
The Avenger opened fire, but the Falcon zoomed straight past it, heading straight toward the dreadnought.
“He’s insane,” Piett muttered. He dialed up General Veers on hologram. “Why aren’t you blasting that puny freighter?”
“That freighter is at too close range for our weapons,” Veers replied. “We’ll have to fight them ship to ship.”
“Then unleash our fighters at once,” said Piett, hanging up.
“Ten minutes too late,” Veers muttered. “Launch fighters!”
“That single freighter can’t penetrate our armor,” Ozzell scoffed.
“They’re not penetrating our armor,” Veers snapped. “They’re taking out our surface cannons.”
“Sir,” said Ensign Canady, “ventral cannons are fully primed.”
“Excellent,” said Veers. “Blast the rebel base to rubble.”
The cannons charged and reduced the base to a crater.
Meanwhile, the Falcon dodged and weaved as Han took out cannons effortlessly. Chewie roared triumphantly.
“I know, one left,” said Han. “Looks like we’ve got company.”
A swarm of TIEs zoomed after the Falcon. A blast hit the Falcon, causing a panel to blow.
“Threepio, get down there and patch that up!” Han bellowed.
“I’m going, I’m going!” Threepio called, barely able to stand with all the Falcon’s spinning maneuvers. Sparks were flying from a console in the wall.
Threepio stuck his finger in it and yelped as he was zapped. The sparks stopped, only to explode in two other places. Threepio stuck his fingers in the breaches, yelping each time he was zapped. Soon eight of Threepio’s fingers were in awkward and physically impossible positions.
Chewie roared from the cockpit, asking if the droid had gotten the problem under control.
“I’m running out of fingers!” Threepio cried. He stuck his last two fingers into the sparking mess. Then he shut his eyes and rammed headfirst into the console with a wail. The sparks stopped flying.
Threepio opened his eyes. “I can’t believe that worked,” he said amazedly.
Han blasted the last cannon and whooped.
“Yeehaw!” cried Chewbacca.
“Excellent work, Captain Solo,” said Ackbar. “The fleet is ready to make the jump to lightspeed. Return to the main cruiser at once.”
“With pleasure, your Admiralbleness,” said Han.
Chewie roared and turned the ship back toward the Eclipse.
“What are you, suicidal?” Han demanded. “He said return to the cruiser!”
Chewie roared in retort.
“What do you mean we won’t get far?” Han demanded. “I’ll tell you what, we won’t get very far if we don’t jump to lightspeed right now instead of playing hero!”
“Oh, Chewbacca, please do listen to Captain Solo!” Threepio cried. “This is madness!”
“Chewbacca!” Ackbar thundered. “Return at once!”
Chewie shut off Ackbar’s channel and ordered Gold Squadron to strafe the dreadnought.
“I’m the captain!” shouted Han. “I give the orders around here! You turn this ship around right now, you big hairy idiot, or you’re grounded for a month!”
Chewie roared and pelted the surface of the Eclipse with blaster fire.
The Y-wings began their bombing runs, dropping proton bombs on the dreadnought’s surface. They weren’t making much of a dent, and the TIEs were picking them off fast. The rebel ships began to be caught in one another’s explosions.
From the cockpit of her fighter, Holdo growled in frustration. Her release mechanism was jammed. She reached for the manual remote in the ceiling compartment, but it fell between her feet. Frantically, she attempted to scoop it up with one of her booted feet.
Seeing the other bombers weren’t doing any damage, Holdo realized what she had to do. She shot straight toward the bridge.
“Blast that fighter!” Veers ordered, but it was too late. The Y-Wing was careening straight toward the bridge.
Holdo closed her eyes and stomped on the detonation button.
“Well, f–” said Veers as a sudden explosion engulfed the bridge. A chain of explosions blossomed along the dreadnought, destroying it completely.
Chewie roared in triumph and made the jump to lightspeed.
Piett stood at the bridge of the Avenger, letting none of his fear show on his face.
Needa approached him. “Emperor Palpatine is requesting contact.”
“Excellent,” said Piett. “I’ll take the call in my chambers.”
The Emperor’s hooded head suddenly filled the bridge in blue hologram. “Admiral Piett,” growled the raspy old man.
“My lord, I report that–” Piett’s face smacked into the floor with a crunch as the Emperor used the Force to drag him across the bridge.
“My disappointment in your performance cannot be understated,” snarled Palpatine.
“My lord, they cannot get away,” said Piett, standing up only to slip on the puddle of blood from his nose. “We have them tied to the end of a string.”
The Emperor mused on this. “See me in my chambers at once.”
Chewie and Han stood before Admiral Ackbar.
Ackbar slapped his great fishy flipper across Han’s face. “You’re demoted,” he barked.
“Hey, now hold on just a second!” Han replied indignantly. “Chewie was the one going kamikaze, not me!”
Chewie roared. Ackbar slapped him. “You’re demoted!” he barked.
Chewie roared.
“For disobeying direct orders!” Ackbar barked.
“That’s not fair!” C-3PO protested.
“You wasted valuable lives on a suicide run–” Ackbar growled.
“We took down a dreadnought!” cried Han.
“Enough!” Ackbar shouted. “Lieutenant Solo, your Wookiee is on probation until further notice!” He stormed from the room.
“That’s it, I’m getting out of here,” Han muttered. “Come on, Chewie. We’re leaving this dump before we get into even more trouble.”
Chewie growled and shook his head.
“Come on!” Han snapped.
Chewie shook his head again and roared angrily.
“Fine!” Han snapped. “See you around, pal. I’m going to find Luke.”
Han stormed off to the hangar, muttering all the way.
Do you mean the interview where Jonathon said “Han is the least chaste character in the Star Wars saga, so we saw
making a young Han movie as an opportunity to really deal with a
romantic and sexual relationship where he’s truly attracted to a woman
and it’s a big part of the dynamic?“ He didn’t say it was the only time, but it does have a weird vibe seeing how we thought we already had “an opportunity to really deal with a
romantic and sexual relationship where he’s truly attracted to a woman.” He’s trying to sell it like it’s something new when it isn’t.
There’s also a passage in Harrison Ford: The Films where Lawrence Kasdan is quoted saying he did not like Han and Leia’s relationship (found via this forum), and he was supposedly behind the decision to break them up in TFA, so pushing Han x Qi’Ra might be a natural result.
but whyyyyyyy, in Legends Han was not only a good guy but also a good man, like even before ANH Han wasn’t like sleeping around so why this sudden insistence on changing the character? And really? How can you be against Han and Leia as a couple??
I thoroughly disagree with the assertion that Han is the least chaste character in the Star Wars saga. The core of his character up to ESB is that he’s a giant dork TRYING to be this suave, smoldering sex icon–the man he thinks Lando is, basically (”you’ll like him”). You can see that with his fumbling attempts to win Leia over and how taken aback he is at Lando’s effortless flirtation.
But Lando has changed, too, shucked off the scoundrel costume that Han is still struggling to fit into. Han doesn’t know what to make of that, this new maturity in the man who has been for so long his ideal of sexy devil-may-care manliness. He thought he had that made when he won the Falcon from Lando, but it’s never fit comfortably and Lando is still the sexiest man in the universe, has grown into himself so much more in fact in a way that’s forever leaving Han scrambling to catch up.
And then it comes together for him, through the crisis, through the revelation of the feet of clay on a man he can’t stop loving anyway. He doesn’t need to put on any airs or be anyone except who he is. Leia has loved him the whole time exactly as he is and a part of him knew it all along. It might already be too late, but he knows that now.
@loopy777 ESB, however, did not blatantly contradict and disrespect the spirit of the prior movie like TLJ did. I mean, I understand that a story can turn in unexpected ways and become more awesome in the making–I’ve experienced it myself, and it’s a great feeling. But it still has to feel like the same story with the same characters, else it’s not a continuation at all. The illusion of a plan is broken, and with it the faith that the creators know what they’re doing.
@loopy777 How so? ESB was darker than ANH, sure, but it didn’t have glaring factual contradictions like Rey’s parents flying away in TFA but stated to be dead on Jakku in TLJ. And even amid the themes of darkness of failure in ESB the actions from the prior movie had some meaning and prior characters didn’t have their character development reversed (TLJ Luke) and/or given pointless deaths (TLJ Ackbar, Snoke, and arguably Luke).
I have no intention of defending the prequels or Lucas himself. My original reply to you was about ESB only.
Warning: I have no idea if I’ve stumbled on to something here or am just pounding sand, but IF I’m right you’d be depriving yourself of a hell of a twist by reading this. Also, I put this in the general TLJ tag because it’s speculation for that movie, but if you’re for or against particular parentage theories and/or ships read the tags before proceeding. There is also a lot of death, violence, trauma and disturbing imagery in this post and a mention of pedophilia (not in support of it, obvs) so exercise caution.
I keep reading theories and headcanons about how Rey was abandoned on Jakku after the destruction of Luke’s school for Jedi, and I find it compelling except for the big glaring timeline problems outlined below. I still feel drawn to the idea, though, and I’ll try to show that this may, in fact, be what happened. I will also discuss some other problems this theory may solve (why Jakku? who left her there?) and how this might put an entirely new spin on Kylo’s and Rey’s stories. Buckle in.
The timeline problem with Rey being left on Jakku after the school’s destruction is that the destruction took place years after Rey’s abandonment. We know that Ben had not yet fallen as of Claudia Gray’s Bloodline, six years prior to the events of The Force Awakens, and the destruction of the school happened after the events of Bloodline when Ben learned of his heritage–that he was the grandson of Darth Vader. By then Rey would have been thirteen years old, far too old to be the child shouting “Come back!”
Right?
Let’s stop right here and unpack the assumptions we’ve made. Here are the facts we know, or think we know, about the destruction of Luke’s school:
Assumption #1: The destruction took place after Ben switched his allegiance and became Kylo Ren.
Assumption #2: Kylo Ren’s fall took place in or after 28 ABY, after the events of Bloodline.
Assumption #3:Kylo Ren killed the Jedi students and destroyed the school.
What if none of these assumptions is true, at least without heavy qualification? It would change quite a lot of what we think we know about the characters and their backgrounds, that’s for certain.
I want to make this very clear, what would not change is the fact that Kylo Ren is a fascist enforcer and mass murderer. This entire post can be summarized as “Cool motive, still murder.” I’m simply wondering if the motive might be so cool that it changes the entire game.
I think this theory is probably pretty warm. It’s too detailed for the whole thing to be true, but I would bet money that the twist is along these lines.
Of course, a Finn twist would be a big surprise too, especially with the marketing. The only way the twist is going to shock anyone is if it happens, like you said, where no one’s looking.
I don’t think we’re getting a big twist, to be honest.
That’s not really Star Wars’ style, and I’m with Ed Brubaker on this one, honestly. Twists and turns aren’t necessary for a good story and the audience expects it way too often, even in places where it shouldn’t be.
Well, if we’re not getting a big twist much of the promotion was an outright lie. In Korea, at least, TLJ is being billed as having the MOST SHOCKING ENDING OF ALL TIME. The movie would have to have a twist on the level of what I’ve described to live up to that promise.
Also, not Star Wars’ style? We’re talking about the franchise that didn’t even tell its own actors and crew about “I am your father.” Mark Hamill was informed like five minutes in advance of shooting that scene and was sworn to secrecy. Even the actor playing Darth Vader didn’t know–the line they used on set was “Obi-Wan killed your father!” (which, from a certain point of view…) and the actual line was dubbed in later. When the reveal came a lot of the audience didn’t believe it and thought it was a trick Vader was playing.
That’s the Star Wars we’re talking about. The prequels didn’t play it that way, but they also couldn’t because, you know, prequel. The sequel trilogy isn’t in the past and TLJ is definitely aiming to emulate ESB in terms of shock.
None of this means I like it, either my own theory or whatever twist is coming. I’m with you there. But to say it won’t happen because I don’t like it is wishful thinking.
the romantic drama is finn and rey being separated the entire movie
If we’re being super real, it’s probably FinnRose so they don’t have to “”“burden”“” Rey with a love interest (ie interracial relationship). Finn and Rose will fight on their mission and then come to respect and then love each other, calling it now.
That’s exactly Han x Leia tho..
Nah Han x Leia also has all the creepy pushiness of the 70s like hitting on someone ten years younger than you and kissing her as she actively resists and says no
Yeah it’s why I never liked Han x Leia and wanted Luke x Leia. (I went into this completely unspoiled, as you can see. Not even sure if I knew about “I am your father” beforehand, I was very new to the internet and first watched the OT on fricking rented VHS tapes so it’s likely.) Nevertheless, two people on a mission together to a sorta shady planet, arguing and eventually kissing, sounds pretty plot-central to me.
This is the thing I want to see. Not in terms of her saving him like a damsel in distress (he didn’t save her this way either) but her being SO concerned for him when she realizes he’s in danger, that she leaves Ahch-To to help him. And so just like he ran into the belly of the FO for her, she will run into the belly of the FO for him. And they will both join forces when they meet and fight their way out together with Rose. (and potentially Luke, who might decide to follow Rey unlike Yoda who was chilling)
And the parallel to TESB would make it even better.
(also this would be a realistic reason for Rey to somehow end up in Snoke’s throne room… she gets caught while on the destroyer…. and I think it’s even possible that they somehow lure her there bc Kylo knows how much Finn means to her….. *cough*)
And remember, Luke didn’t turn out to be the rescuer he thought he would be. It was he who ended up needing Han, Leia, and Lando’s help. Similarly, it doesn’t look like Rey’s confrontation with Snoke went all in her favor if the bruises and the cuts of her being tortured are any indication.
Episode V: Luke Skywalker trains with Yoda. It’s a rough slog, and they disagree on a lot of things. Then Luke ends up facing his enemy, Darth Vader… who tells a terrible truth, and extends his hand to Luke, palm up, inviting his son to come with him.
Episode VIII: Rey finds Luke Skywalker and starts training with him. It’s a rough slog. Then she’s face to face with her enemy, Kylo Ren, who extends his hand to her, palm up, inviting her to come with him…
L.J.'s Obsessions 