“In my mind, he walks in there knowing basically that he is going to betray Snoke but he (Kylo) doesn’t know yet exactly what the mechanism is and what his opportunity is going to be. But he’s gone in there with the intent of, whether it’s now or whether it’s later or whenever it is, when he brings Rey in there, he’s had that connection (Force bond) with her and what he says in the elevator… from that, in my head I thought, Okay, he knows he’s going to do this but he doesn’t know how yet and when he sees that opportunity with that lightsaber next to him and sees Snoke distracted and realizes he can give this an attempt, he goes for it.“
The novel/comic goes as far to say that Kylo wanted Snoke dead since their first scene together in TLJ when Kylo realizes that Han was right and Snoke was just using him. Kylo even imagines as he’s smashing his mask that he was smashing Snoke’s face.
BTW Kylo has got to have more masks than that, because he left his mask on the Bridge he killed Han on in TFA. So either Johnson forgot that or Kylo has a whole closet of masks
And unrelated, but Johnson said that he had Kylo kill off Snoke so that there would be no Vader-Palpatine dynamic, which for that I’m thankful for. It was the one thing I hated about Snoke.
So the reylow line that bEn KilLeD sNOkE fOR reY TRuE lUrVE!!!11 is yet another baseless headcanon shot down by their own god? 😂
Almost every quote Reylows get from JJ or Ruin, or honestly any source, is edited to make it seem like their ship is valid.
Johnson and the novel confirm:
Kylo and Rey’s Force Bond was made by Snoke
Kylo figures out that he must have been behind it sometime after he failed to use force persuasion in her.
When they touched hands, Rey saw what Snoke wanted her to see.
Kylo called Rey nothing and the bit about her parents was a manipulative tactic to break her resolve down like it was on Luke’s island.
Rey ended the force bond on Crait.
This isn’t even a fan speculation. It’s confirmed facts by round head himself.
To acknowledge that a dark skin, fully “black” features is beautiful would be to relinquish those years of constant torment of black women. Furthermore, her characteristic and personality clashes with the assumption of dark skin women are rude and brash. They can’t even attack her on her personality traits nor her physical appearance, therefore she is an automatic threat.
Also, let’s acknowledge that it has been Black Women but also a white audience who have have acknowledge Lupita. I think that says a lot.
NO. PLEASE DON’T. your life would end up even more miserable when they disown you and all the family drama. it’s not worth it. don’t let western media convince you that coming out is the ultimate happiness BECAUSE IT ISN’T.
your financial safety and well-being come first. i know it sucks you have homophobic parents but once you’ve graduated college, get a job, and can support yourself, you’ll now be able to come out and survive.
TBH coming out to family should be optional like it shouldn’t be your parents’ business and i hate western media for socialising young gay men into thinking that they have to come out to be happy. because you dont have to. you can be happy even when you’re not out. like sure, it is nice to come out but do it wisely and assess the environment.
so yeah, if your parents are homophobic and you don’t have a stable career then DON’T. PLEASE.
yeah essentially speaking
My great uncle is a 58 year old gay man who is engaged. He is still not out to his 80 something year-old father. Because he doesn’t want to kill his dad, mostly. But also because he’s afraid of his dad still. You don’t ever have to come out to your family if you don’t feel safe doing so.
It’s when a character is given the markers of a group affiliation that the character cannot actually have or is not explicitly stated to have. An example of the former is Sebastian from The Little Mermaid having a Trinidadian accent and being from Jamaica. A crab cannot be Jamaican (or Trinidadian), but he was coded as being from the Caribbean. A leading case of the latter is queer coding using stereotypical gay/queer traits, especially for villains.
I never knew that. Isn’t that technically what the characters from Steve universe are? Their not technically woman, but they are…I think.
I’m not going in that fandom.
So why is Kylo called a coded character?
Yeah they could be seen as examples of female-coded or nonbinary-coded characters, seeing how they’re aliens who come from a culture without gender. (If there’s any gender I’d say Pearls are coded as the pliant, objectified, subservient women.) The show is very queer, and recently they decided to take things way outside coding territory and make it explicit with a wedding scene and a big kiss. I agree it’s a good idea not to go anywhere near SU fandom, though, and I lost a lot of interest in it myself for other reasons. Still plan to watch it with my son, though.
If Kylo is coded as anything he’s coded neo-Nazi lmao. There’s even Word of God on this from JJ. There is a joke about him being “dumbass-coded” (link via @thehungryvortigaunt) but that’s not coding, he just is a dumbass.
Kylo is called coded as a weapon. It doesn’t take a social scientist to see that hyperfocusing on the white villain in a movie series with no young white male heroes and deciding he’s the hero has racist implications. If it was a fringe view, it wouldn’t be that big of a deal, but it’s everywhere, and as we’ve seen multiple times, kylostans (lbr, reylo isn’t about focusing on Rey beyond aesthetics) demand that he is respected for a perceived innate goodness, a demand not extended to the characters of color who make up the Canon group of heroes.
Invoking coding is an attempt to muddy the waters when people notice this racist pattern. If Supreme Leader Kylo himself is marginalized, well, then, his actions are justified and calling him a criminal for his actions is like, the same as calling an innocent Black guy a criminal just for existing (which reylo shippers have actually done). That’s not how marginalization works. That’s never been how it works. The popular suggestion that Kylo, who was introduced to us as a commander giving orders to slaughter an entire village of religious followers, is the good guy because he looks a certain way, is the opposite of marginalized.
And yet, one of the things kylostans love to do is to apply marginalization to him in order to “turn the tables” on fans who think it would be reprehensible for a character who is so clearly an allegory of modern white radicalization (as well as Nazism, e.g the village) to become the real hero in a story where the heroes we’ve been given are people of color and women.
One can defend the belief that Kylo is the true hero in one of two ways: By admitting they support the ideology (as some far right fans who believed the Empire were the good guys did in the early ‘00s ), or by telling us we have it all wrong and Kylo is the most marginalized of all, to the point where he’s coded as “POC” or femme or mentally ill. Fans unwilling to put in the effort it takes to see Kylo as the real hero are prejudiced against the marginalized. Check and mate. “Antis” are the Real Racists.
Mm? That was not my intention at all, I wasn’t saying Poe had to be the hero but rather pointing out how the plot as it happened required he not be there for large chunks of it. As @jewishcomeradebot pointed out in her addition Poe was pretty much Leia plot-wise, the character who knows his way around the military and intelligence side of things. Much like Leia, Poe’s having more screen time would not have detracted from the other leads.
Poe being in the trio would not have been a bad thing. Finn and Rey were always the co-protagonist and each other’s love interest. The fear that Doomreys will marginalize Finn is a true fear, but that’s the same white washing racism, even though Oscar is Latino, as reylow.
The fear that if Rose and Poe are around Finn and Rey, then Finn or Rey would disappear from the other’s lives is stupid. JJ knows what he wants and what he’s doing, for the most part at least.
Beyond the fact most Poe fans, and even potentially Oscar, if he wasn’t joking, headcanon Poe as gay, I think most fans would be fine.
There’s a difference between having our trio be together vs Doomrey racists erasing Finn
Episode IX will probably have them together more.
Finn and Poe best friends, Finn and Rey are romantically interested in each other, and Rey, Rose, and Poe will all be friends as well if JJ does it right.
Why is it that RL shipping or discussions about assumed relationships between actors so often turn into sexist shit when a woman is involved in whatever which way? I’ve seen this so often now it’s starting to make my stomach turn…
I’m going to expand on this more elsewhere, but in the case of the most recent nonsense, the main sticking point seems to be that the men involved were in relationships and the woman involved was not. That always seems to bring out an extra layer of sexism. For example, I very rarely see Harrison taken to task for being a married man in his 30s having an affair with a 19 year old, but I routinely have seen Carrie classified as a “whore” “crazy bitch” and “homewrecker” for “throwing herself” at a married man. Ditto with Kristen Stewart when she was photographed kissing that married director twice her age. Barely anyone said anything about him, even when his wife wrote an essay about being betrayed and filing divorce, but people rained down on Kristen like a ton of bricks. There have been some RL shipping situations I’ve noticed where there hasn’t been this discourse, and thinking on it, it’s because neither person involved was married or in a serious relationship.
Don’t get me wrong – no party is okay in the case of cheating. It’s not okay to step out on your spouse and I also believe it’s not okay to pursue someone you know to be in a committed monogamous relationship. But people do come down disproportinately hard on the single, often much younger woman than they do on the older, often married man, and it’s bullshit.
They still don’t get it, do they–John is the biggest gun in that cast 😂
Or maybe John is I don’t know….FILMING FUCKING EP IX!!!!!!!!
For Christ sakes maybe the dude was tired as hell from a long day of filming or he had to film or train some more.
I never understand why this fandom hates to see us in any positive leading role. It’s like those arguments back in the day when they said Lando wasn’t in the Sequel trilogy because he was a traitor.
Nah man, that would mean they’d have to face that Finn’s role in IX is big and significant, something that doesn’t leave John much free time for leisure pursuits.
But they’ve already convinced themselves – contrary to all narrative evidence – that Finn is an insignificant side character who isn’t going to be doing much of anything in IX. So “clearly” John can’t be that busy when Daisy and Adam aren’t.
I’d like to see Rey happy at the end of the Sequel Duology
And I don’t mean like her being happy about a relationship or her being happy because the war is over…..
I want to see Rey happy with herself and where her life is at. Back in TFA we saw that Rey really wasn’t happy with her life. There was a sense of longing and emptiness that seemed to always be around her when she was on Jakku.
Remember that shot in TFA of Rey looking lonely and lost?
It’d be nice near the end of IX, if JJ gave Rey a chance to silently reflect on her life and the changes it’s gone through.
Imagine Rey is on Coruscant in a rebuilt Jedi council room. The war is over, her loved ones are safe, and Rey, Jedi Master, dressed in clean, warm robes, takes a seat and looks out as the sun rises on the busy world. Her face is content and for the first time in many years, Rey feels at home and fulfilled.
I don’t just wanna see Rey happy for a moment. I wanna know that at the end of this, she’s happy with herself and her life, because she’s earned that.
If there’s one thing I want Rey to find above all else, it’s happiness.
I think what’s most important for Rey is to be happy with her choices and where they’ve taken her. In her life before she was stuck. She had shackled herself to Jakku waiting for someone to come back to her. And she pretended that it was okay, that she was happy there. That as long as they came back for her it would be worth it, but I think deep down she knew she was wasting her life away on a dream she had no control over.
In that shot of her she’s watching an old woman do the same thing she is. And I’m sure she’s wondering, will that be me? Will I be stuck here forever waiting on something that never comes.
But then BB-8 rolls into her life. And she makes a choice to help him. To not sell him for rations. And then she meets Finn. This boy she thinks is a Resistance fighter, living in a world she can only dream of beyong Jakku. And she makes the choice to help him. And make no mistakes these are choices. She could’ve sold BB-8, she could’ve returned to Jakku without helping them, but she didn’t because she knew she wanted more. And finally she makes a choice when she calls for Luke’s lightsaber. A choice to accept this destiny that is so much larger than herself, that she’s terrified of and doesn’t understand. But still she chooses it. And she chooses to go find Luke, to understand herself.
And in the end I want Rey to be glad she did. To look back on those choices and be grateful she made them because now she’s no longer waiting for life to find her. She’s found it herself and she’s sought out her own happiness. I want her to acknowledge that she brought herself to this point and be proud.
Agreed!
I always hated the argument that Rey wasn’t an active protagonist or she had no objective.
Rey’s objective was to find where she belonged. That’s why the shot of Rey’s face after Leia told hey may the force be with you, mattered so much.
In TFA and Rey’s survival guide we learn that Rey had always dreamed and learned about these heroes of the past and she use to pretend to be one. She even keeps an old Rebellion helmet and still wears it. Rey wanted to feel like she had a purpose, to feel like her life had meaning beyond just being a scavenger.
And by the end of TFA she’s found her purpose, and she’s become a hero in her own right.
That’s why whenever I think about Rey and her unanswered questions, I just think back to Daisy’s words on how she felt like Rey had already accepted her status as hero and who her parents were, even if we didn’t understand at the time.
So yeah VII and IX are all I know
That’s one of the reasons why I get so annoyed when people act like RJ was so ingenious with the arcs he chose for the characters. For Rey, it was for her to let go of the past and realize that she didn’t need to rely on these other characters (Luke and Kylo) to be the hero. She was somebody and could be the hero herself.
But like you said, this was already explored and basically resolved in TFA. So RJ essentially just ripped off the arcs JJ already did for the characters, but did it worse!
I said once that everyone from Luke, Finn, Rey, Poe and Kylo had their personalities reset for the sake of the First 3 acts then it was brought back to their TFA, or in Luke’s case, ROTJ self.
L.J.'s Obsessions 